Real relocation... Okay. Is this how scripture defines it?
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (Jn. 3:8) - Real location? No. Not in the sense you use it. Besides, as I said before, he is drawing a parallel between physical wind (which we CAN sense) and the Holy Spirit, which was still to come.
I've already addressed John 3 in detail. I demonstrated that such equivocations torture the exegesis. The main point, however, is that John 3 is another example of God making a pointed effort to stress wind in a context dealing with the Holy Wind. Either that's how He meant for us to read it or He's doing His best to confuse the heck out of us. Enough said.
" And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting." (Acts 2:2") Real location? - No. Not in the sense you use it. It's descriptive.
Of course it's descriptive. On this thread I myself was the first to testify that divine Wind is somewhat LIKE earthly wind (the main similarity being their tangibility). The two are not
absolutely identical. When earthly wind blows, it makes a sound
because it is a tangible substance. Likewise when the Holy Wind blew at Pentecost, it made the same kind of sound
because it is a tangible substance. Here again (sigh) God is either (A) trying to TEACH us something about biblical metaphysics OR (B) He is trying to hopelessly confuse, deceive, and mislead us into
wrongly supposing a tangible divine Wind. Apparently you Platonists have opted for choice B. Fine, there’s nothing I can do about it.
And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them." (Acts 2:3) Real location? Real fire? Burned and singed scalps? No. Of course not.
You ask, real location? Pretty silly question isn’t it? Did you take the time to actually read the verse you just cited? It says that the tongues of fire were seen descending from point A (the sky) and then came to rest on their heads (point B). How is that NOT conveying relocation? Oh I forgot, God wrote the Bible in the most confusing, misleading, deceiving manner so that we are generally better off believing the
exact opposite of what it actually says.
Your next two questions go together: “Real fire? Burned and singed scalps?” I’ve already addressed this issue repeatedly. I stated:
(1) divine Wind is merely similar to earthly wind – i.e. equally tangible. They are not identical.
(2) divine Fire is merely similar to earthly fire – i.e. equally tangible. They are not identical.
As I pointed out earlier, divine Fire CAN consume and HAS consumed (as the OT clearly documents) but does not ALWAYS consume (viz. the burning bush). Unlike earthly fire, divine Fire is a person with free-will/self-control who can CHOOSE whether or not to consume.
"If I say, “I will not mention him, or speak any more in his name,” there is in my heart as it were a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I am weary with holding it in, and I cannot." (Jer. 20:9) - Literal fire that burned inside him and consumed him? No. Of course not. It would have killed him. Metaphor. He KNEW the presence of the Spirit with him, but it was not a physical SUBSTANCE in his physical body.
No you haven’t proven it wasn’t a physical substance. I would say that the Fire had a definite impact on his nervous system – arguably somewhat excruciating – without actually disintegrating/burning it up.
You just admitted that the Third Person was within his body. For what purpose? If God were acting magically, instead of as a tangible Hand, He could have exerted the same effect using hocus-pocus from a distance, there would never be any POINT in invading our bodies. There would be no point in furnishing outpourings of the Holy Wind.
No. As much as we would love to fit spiritual things into a neat box where we can intellectually understand every last iota of how God operates, at one point or another He is going to confound our thinking. But to have it be on the level of understanding the nature and working of the Holy Spirit (even on a basic level) is... wow...
Again (sigh), you can’t make an unintelligible assertion (viz. that piece of matter is both a material and immaterial substance) and then call it a Doctrine, much less a defensible one.
