Holocaust denial is only one type of historical revisionism.

[cow451]

The truth or falsity of the Holocaust does not rest upon having an exact and provable number of victims. The 6 million figure is an estimate and probably is approximately correct. That the intention was to eradicate the Jews is undeniable, even if other groups were targeted in different ways and for other reasons.

Stop! Everyone! Albion and cow451 have agreed on something! OK, you may resume your normal posting.

 

[IceJad]

The Germans kept lots of records, with the help of IBM.
Now, how many millions are required to meet your standard for calling it a holocaust?

You missed my point entirely. I don't question whether there is a holocaust. I say open mind regarding the facts and narrative around the holocaust. I hate most is when people try to hijack historical facts with narratives that exaggerate certain aspects in hopes of some form of notoriety.

Facts alone should matter. Separate the myth. Nothing kills truth faster than letting myths and legends parasite on it. If the event is as concrete as stone then why are you so worked up about people questioning it? The truth will remain.

People questioning a historical event should be standard academic discourse. Maybe questioning might rub some people the wrong way. Let's say re-examining. Like how we do repeated experiments to reinforce the initial finding.

A shame that emotions rule historical accuracy. The motto of the holocaust - Never forget. My motto - Search & remember the truth.

 

[cow451]

You missed my point entirely. I don't question whether there is a holocaust. I say open mind regarding the facts and narrative around the holocaust. I hate most is when people try to hijack historical facts with narratives that exaggerate certain aspects in hopes of some form of notoriety.

Facts alone should matter. Separate the myth. Nothing kills truth faster than letting myths and legends parasite on it. If the event is as concrete as stone then why are you so worked up about people questioning it? The truth will remain.

People questioning a historical event should be standard academic discourse. Maybe questioning might rub some people the wrong way. Let's say re-examining. Like how we do repeated experiments to reinforce the initial finding.

A shame that emotions rule historical accuracy. The motto of the holocaust - Never forget. My motto - Search & remember the truth.

Any large scale estimate of war casualties in the civilian population is going to be an educated guess. In this case it's a highly educated guess.

Holocaust deniers cite uncertainty about the exact number of deaths within this accepted range as proof that the whole history of the Holocaust has been fabricated and that the number of Jewish deaths during World War II has been grossly exaggerated.

To accurately estimate the extent of human losses, scholars, Jewish organizations, and governmental agencies since the 1940s have relied on a variety of different records, such as census reports, captured German and Axis archives, and postwar investigations, to compile these statistics. As more documents come to light or as scholars arrive at a more precise understanding of the Holocaust, estimates of human losses may change.

What Holocaust "myths" are you referring to here?

 

[IceJad]

Any large scale estimate of war casualties in the civilian population is going to be an educated guess. In this case it's a highly educated guess.

Holocaust deniers cite uncertainty about the exact number of deaths within this accepted range as proof that the whole history of the Holocaust has been fabricated and that the number of Jewish deaths during World War II has been grossly exaggerated.

To accurately estimate the extent of human losses, scholars, Jewish organizations, and governmental agencies since the 1940s have relied on a variety of different records, such as census reports, captured German and Axis archives, and postwar investigations, to compile these statistics. As more documents come to light or as scholars arrive at a more precise understanding of the Holocaust, estimates of human losses may change.

What Holocaust "myths" are you referring to here?

I think you missed my point again. It is not what myths I think there is, it is don't be a negative Nancy when others don't believe in the same historical facts as you or me. Don't jump to conclusion that when someone questions a historical event, it is automatically for nefarious reasons.

Anyway what makes the holocaust the defining atrocity that cannot be denied or questioned? The number of deaths? Well the Chinese cultural revolution killed more. The racial targeting of Jews? The Armenian genocide share that claim. The brutality and cruelty? Nanking massacre is as horrid. The use of unconventional weapons? Well the civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima can lay claim to it as well.

I'm not here to downplaying the holocaust, merely putting into perspective the unquestionable weight put onto this particular human tragedy alone. The negative responses from merely suggesting that the event didn't occur as recorded are astounding. And yet no one will even blink if I now declare the deaths in the Chinese cultural revolution never occurred and it is all a made up story by the Western nations. No laws will be broken. Can't say the same about denying the holocaust in many European nations if I don't want to be behind bars.

 

[cow451]

I think you missed my point again. It is not what myths I think there is, it is don't be a negative Nancy when others don't believe in the same historical facts as you or me. Don't jump to conclusion that when someone questions a historical event, it is automatically for nefarious reasons.

Anyway what makes the holocaust the defining atrocity that cannot be denied or questioned? The number of deaths? Well the Chinese cultural revolution killed more. The racial targeting of Jews? The Armenian genocide share that claim. The brutality and cruelty? Nanking massacre is as horrid. The use of unconventional weapons? Well the civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima can lay claim to it as well.

I'm not here to downplaying the holocaust, merely putting into perspective the unquestionable weight put onto this particular human tragedy alone. The negative responses from merely suggesting that the event didn't occur as recorded are astounding. And yet no one will even blink if I now declare the deaths in the Chinese cultural revolution never occurred and it is all a made up story by the Western nations. No laws will be broken. Can't say the same about denying the holocaust in many European nations if I don't want to be behind bars.

Well. Please tell us what really happened with this thing some people call "The Holocaust".

 

[IceJad]

Well. Please tell us what really happened with this thing some people call "The Holocaust".

I'm not going down that rabbit hole because that is not my point again. What I know or believe about the holocaust is not up for debate or anyone to judge. I'm free to seek knowledge as I see fit for my mental development. If you want to know the event there are more than sufficient resources online you can delve into.

I'm here to question people's reaction to merely questioning a historical event. It doesn't really matter what the event is. It can be the first Russo-Japanese war, it can be the moon landing or it can be how my country got her independence. It is anti-academic and anti-freedom of thought. Feels very Orwellian when there can only be a single narrative to any event. More so when there is threat of legal actions and societal out-casting.

 

[cow451]

I'm not going down that rabbit hole because that is not my point again. What I know or believe about the holocaust is not up for debate or anyone to judge. I'm free to seek knowledge as I see fit for my mental development. If you want to know the event there are more than sufficient resources online you can delve into.

I'm here to question people's reaction to merely questioning a historical event. It doesn't really matter what the event is. It can be the first Russo-Japanese war, it can be the moon landing or it can be how my country got her independence. It is anti-academic and anti-freedom of thought. Feels very Orwellian when there can only be a single narrative to any event. More so when there is threat of legal actions and societal out-casting.

It seems you want to question a widely believed--- by historians--- episode called "the Holocaust" without being questioned about any of your conclusions. Extraordinary claims require evidence.