Holocaust denial is only one type of historical revisionism.

[Bouan Philippe]

Holocaust denial entails downplaying the extent of the genocide perpetrated against the Jews (and others) during WWW, or outright denial that the genocide happened at all.

Revisionism entails the downplaying of Jewish persecution by the Nazis, or outright denial that such a persecution ever happened.

Consequently, the far right will try to white wash Hitler's Third Reich and paint a rosy picture of what really happened.

Ultimately, revisionism requires the distortion of historical facts, or the outright denial of such factual evidence against the perpetrators of Jewish persecution and genocide, which is the same as telling lies.

However, telling lies is still considered to be a serious transgression, which merits the "death penalty", or "everlasting torment in hell" according to Revelation 20:10 & 21:8.

Therefore, holocaust denial or revisionism deserves the severest punishment for the perpetrators of such lies.

Please discuss.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Agreed. And sad, really. It means that some fear the responsibility of history, which is to learn from its mistakes. Otherwise it's far too easy to repeat them. It's like siding with genocide. Call it what it is. A spade is a spade is a spade.

Disgusting and sad.

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[adderbolt]

Consequently, the far right will try to white wash Hitler's Third Reich and paint a rosy picture of what really happened.

Just as we always have the "poor" among so to we always suffer the "far right". The FBI estimates that there about 2,000 white supremacists in the United States and we know that 34 million of our citizens live in poverty.

So we take care of the more pressing problem (the poor) and the far right issue will continue to fade. Hitler and his cronies and a complicit media exploited the poverty and a massive inflation of the currency situations in Germany. It doesn't have to happen here ...

 

[Bouan Philippe]

Just as we always have the "poor" among so to we always suffer the "far right". The FBI estimates that there about 2,000 white supremacists in the United States and we know that 34 million of our citizens live in poverty.

So we take care of the more pressing problem (the poor) and the far right issue will continue to fade. Hitler and his cronies and a complicit media exploited the poverty and a massive inflation of the currency situations in Germany. It doesn't have to happen here ...

I will give you thumbs up, but not because you're in the USA.

 

[adderbolt]

not because you're in the USA

Vive la France!

 

[Albion]

Just as we always have the "poor" among so to we always suffer the "far right". The FBI estimates that there about 2,000 white supremacists in the United States and we know that 34 million of our citizens live in poverty.

So we take care of the more pressing problem (the poor) and the far right issue will continue to fade. Hitler and his cronies and a complicit media exploited the poverty and a massive inflation of the currency situations in Germany. It doesn't have to happen here ...

And yet the "far left," which you somehow omitted from your overview of things, seems certainly to be following the path of events in Germany of the 1930s to a remarkable degree.

The currency is being inflated; the irresponsible actions of just the past four months attest to that. Suppression of free speech (contrary opinions being voiced) is well underway. It even has a new name--Cancel Culture. And traditional values are under attack everywhere. Family, marriage, religious expression, patriotism, etc.--all are under attack.

Yet you gave not even a passing reference to the forces engaged in doing it.

 

[adderbolt]

The currency is being inflated; the irresponsible actions of just the past four months attest to that. Suppression of free speech (contrary opinions being voiced) is well underway. It even has a new name--Cancel Culture. And traditional values are under attack everywhere. Family, marriage, religious expression, patriotism, etc.--all are under attack.

Yes and what is being done about this?

Yet you gave not even a passing reference to the forces engaged in doing it.

You did it for me -- so what's being done about it? It seems the Left has seized control or they are uncomfortably close to out-and-out dominance. While the Right has been paid off or they have been out-smarted, hogtied and paralyzed

 

[Albion]

You did it for me -- so what's being done about it? It seems the Left has seized control or they are uncomfortably close to out-and-out dominance. While the Right has been paid off or they have been out-smarted, hogtied and paralyzed

Could be, but with the majority of the members of the House of Representatives and of the US Senate, along with the agreement of the President, making and/or defending such disastrous policies as we all recognize, what actions do you feel that Republicans/conservatives/moderates should and can turn to?

 

[adderbolt]

Could be, but with the majority of the members of the House of Representatives and of the US Senate, along with the agreement of the President, making and/or defending such disastrous policies as we all recognize, what actions do you feel that Republicans/conservatives/moderates should and can turn to?

We can trust God and his rule

and/or

Play hardball with the same techniques that the Left uses. For example why in the world should conservatives continue any support for Hollywood, Twitter, Facebook, Google, CNN, MSNBC, AOL, The New York Times, Washington Post, Coca-Cola, Dr. Fauci, a wild-west southern border, Washington DC wrapped in razor-wire, etc., etc., etc.?

 

[Albion]

We can trust God and his rule

and/or

Play hardball with the same techniques that the Left uses. For example why in the world should conservatives continue any support for Hollywood, Twitter, Facebook, Google, CNN, MSNBC, AOL, The New York Times, Washington Post, Coca-Cola, Dr. Fauci's, a wild-west southern border, Washington DC wrapped in razor-wire, etc., etc., etc.?

You have a point there. I cannot deny that. Republicans have long been obsessed with being seen as respectable, moderate, bi-partisan, and etc., so much so that the term "Me too" Republicans was used for them.

The party became more willing to fight for what is right in recent years, but this hesitancy still characterizes too many elected Republicans. At the moment, many if not most of the ordinary party members have had enough of it. So it will be interesting to see how that shakes out as we approach the elections of 2022.

 

[adderbolt]

So it will be interesting to see how that shakes out as we approach the elections of 2022.

I'm sensing ignorance and apathy and a great willingness on the part of the Right to let the Left define the situation. For example Hamas in Gaza has in the last few days pounded Israel's sky and territory with 3,000 plus indiscriminate and random rocket attacks. Yet all the Left wants to discuss are the inevitable civilian deaths and causalities related to Israel's response to the assault on its civilian population.

Imagine Canada pelting the USA with 3,000 untargeted rockets and the United Nations only concerned with the United States' response -- one that resulted in the deaths Canadian women and children? The whole scenario is unreal ...

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Any history worthy of the name is revisionist. History isn’t just about parroting the same stories over and over again. It’s an academic discipline.

 

[morningstar2651]

And yet the "far left," which you somehow omitted from your overview of things, seems certainly to be following the path of events in Germany of the 1930s to a remarkable degree.

The currency is being inflated; the irresponsible actions of just the past four months attest to that. Suppression of free speech (contrary opinions being voiced) is well underway. It even has a new name--Cancel Culture. And traditional values are under attack everywhere. Family, marriage, religious expression, patriotism, etc.--all are under attack.

Yet you gave not even a passing reference to the forces engaged in doing it.

Indeed, us devious leftists will be rounding up the Socialists and the Trade Unionists to put in our concentration camps with our political enemies and minorities any day now.

Oh...wait.

 

[IceJad]

Holocaust denial entails downplaying the extent of the genocide perpetrated against the Jews (and others) during WWW, or outright denial that the genocide happened at all.

Revisionism entails the downplaying of Jewish persecution by the Nazis, or outright denial that such a persecution ever happened.

Consequently, the far right will try to white wash Hitler's Third Reich and paint a rosy picture of what really happened.

Ultimately, revisionism requires the distortion of historical facts, or the outright denial of such factual evidence against the perpetrators of Jewish persecution and genocide, which is the same as telling lies.

However, telling lies is still considered to be a serious transgression, which merits the "death penalty", or "everlasting torment in hell" according to Revelation 20:10 & 21:8.

Therefore, holocaust denial or revisionism deserves the severest punishment for the perpetrators of such lies.

Please discuss.

Actually I have a problem with people who don't give others a choice to accept or reject the holocaust. What happened to academic freedom? What happened to confirming and reaffirming facts? If it is as history says than there shouldn't be a need to worry people denying holocaust because the facts alone will speak for themselves.

I myself believe that the holocaust happened. But for academic purpose I don't fully believe the numbers of 6 million. That is because there are many conflicting reports in numbers. Some say 4 million. I believe the numbers fall somewhere in between. And this alone is enough discrepancy for me to not full trust everything single thing about the holocaust narrative. Unfortunately those who perpetrated the holocaust are no longer around. And how sure are we that they were honest with the numbers they said during the Nuremberg trials.

Let's at least be open minded about the subject. Not judge those who merely just question the holocaust. Every subject there are bound to have extremist supporting the extreme end of the subject. RIGHT OR LEFT. But the number are minuet compared to the genuine knowledge seekers.

I hate the notion that something is unquestionable because somewhere someone is sensitive about it.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Actually I have a problem with people who don't give others a choice to accept or reject the holocaust. What happened to academic freedom? What happened to confirming and reaffirming facts? If it is as history says than there shouldn't be a need to worry people denying holocaust because the facts alone will speak for themselves.

I myself believe that the holocaust happened. But for academic purpose I don't fully believe the numbers of 6 million. That is because there are many conflicting reports in numbers. Some say 4 million. I believe the numbers fall somewhere in between. And this alone is enough discrepancy for me to not full trust everything single thing about the holocaust narrative. Unfortunately those who perpetrated the holocaust are no longer around. And how sure are we that they were honest with the numbers they said during the Nuremberg trials.

Let's at least be open minded about the subject. Not judge those who merely just question the holocaust. Every subject there are bound to have extremist supporting the extreme end of the subject. RIGHT OR LEFT. But the number are minuet compared to the genuine knowledge seekers.

I hate the notion that something is unquestionable because somewhere someone is sensitive about it.

Think about the nature of the subject matter, the historical records, their veracity, the concentration camps that were left in the condition they were in because the operators fled rather than waiting to face capture and what you can still find in them, preserved for history's sake, and of course the literal victims of the Holocaust. Tell the victims that what they went through didn't happen, even though you were not there to physically witness any of it, let alone go through it yourself. Many of them are still alive today.

If we refuse to learn from history, we are surely doomed to repeat it. As a historian academic, can you tell us the conditions which existed before the rise of the Third Reich that were so conducive to nurturing its fruition? Can you see anything similar happening in today's society, around the world, say?

Anyone can agree to or deny whatever they wish. To force someone either way is absurd. But the authority and weight of truth and evidence cannot be denied, or else you may as well do away with law courts, prisons and the judicial system at large. To question a fact that has not been completely proven is one thing, can you even call it a fact? But to deny a proven fact is quite another.

 

[IceJad]

Tell the victims that what they went through didn't happen, even though you were not there to physically witness any of it, let alone go through it yourself. Many of them are still alive today.

There is where people assume too much. Very little people actually will purposely walk in front of a known holocaust survivor and tell them their experience don't matter. Not to say there will never be people like this. But there are people who will question the holocaust in the open. The difference is one is targeted the other general declaration. If you take offense about a general declaration then I'm not with you on this. I still believe in freedom of speech. Even if the speech is to the detriment of the speaker or hearer. As long as it is not a call to commit a crime.

If we refuse to learn from history, we are surely doomed to repeat it. As a historian academic, can you tell us the conditions which existed before the rise of the Third Reich that were so conducive to nurturing its fruition? Can you see anything similar happening in today's society, around the world, say?

And by what standard can you judge someone not learning from history? I believe in the holocaust happening where many people from many ethnicities were killed not just the Jews. In fact wanting to separate the truth from myth gives people like me more clarify of the event than just blindly accepting the narrative from one side alone.

Anyone can agree to or deny whatever they wish. To force someone either way is absurd. But the authority and weight of truth and evidence cannot be denied, or else you may as well do away with law courts, prisons and the judicial system at large. To question a fact that has not been completely proven is one thing, can you even call it a fact? But to deny a proven fact is quite another.

Many countries in Europe made it criminal to deny the holocaust. Is that not force? You can't openly deny the holocaust. The implication is that people can misuse that law to target people whom they have differing opinions with regarding the holocaust. If you want to argue from the perspective of truth, the same countries also allow you to deny Mao's or Stalin's death filled rules.

Imagine you can't deny the holocaust but you can deny the holodomor and the cultural revolution. And to my knowledge there is not specific law that criminalized denying the latter two events. If there is do let me know, it will be a good read.

Let's be honest in the subject. Even the US holocaust museum states that there is no one document that can give the accurate number. All are approximation based on fragments of documents and testimonies. This alone don't paint a concrete picture. And throughout history in every war the numbers are all estimates. That is why historians keep researching. I would like people to just have open minds about the subject.

Documenting Numbers of Victims of the Holocaust and Nazi Persecution

Don't draw conclusion when someone questions the validity of a historical event.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

There is where people assume too much. Very little people actually will purposely walk in front of a known holocaust survivor and tell them their experience don't matter. Not to say there will never be people like this. But there are people who will question the holocaust in the open.

If they personally won't do it when confronted with the truth, what justifies their personal disbelief?

And by what standard can you judge someone not learning from history? I believe in the holocaust happening where many people from many ethnicities were killed not just the Jews. In fact wanting to separate the truth from myth gives people like me more clarify of the event than just blindly accepting the narrative from one side alone.

You believe the truth but are happy for people to believe a lie. History is not just some made up academia, it's fact, recorded fact. Otherwise it is not history. Definition of.

Many countries in Europe made it criminal to deny the holocaust. Is that not force? You can't openly deny the holocaust.

I wonder how far they could establish that force, but the fact remains that they were terrified it would happen again. I wonder why???

Let's be honest in the subject. Even the US holocaust museum states that there is no one document that can give the accurate number. All are approximation based on fragments of documents and testimonies.

But something of the event remains as a record. History cannot be perfectly preserved because nothing lasts forever. We all lose our memories. This is not just like forgetting where you put your glasses. Concerted measures have to be taken to ensure the societal memory of important occurrences and events.

We need to remember that it is wrong to steal, wrong to murder, wrong it commit genocide, wrong to lie, and so on. We learn from the consequences of those things happening. Like writing it out on a chalkboard a thousand times. If it's not worth remembering, or you're encouraged to deny it, or people act like denying it is no big deal, or worse, a noble thing to do, what does that say about that act itself?

I am not encouraging enforced acquiescence. That would be ridiculous. If someone wants to believe the world is a cone shape and that clouds are really ice cream, no matter what I say? Can't force them not to. But I still think it is ridiculous to believe the world is a cloudy ice cream cone, and that denying fact is not something to advocate for. I'd at least try to get them to look at the evidence, so they could make up their minds for themselves.

Imagine with me for a second, that you went to war, lost a leg in battle, came home a hero. Your friend asks you about it, gets the full story, nods along, and smiles and tells you you're so brave and wonderful, and off he goes.

He goes back to his home and tells everyone you're a liar, and that you just lost your leg in a poker game. No evidence to back him up, but expects everyone to believe it anyway. It's ridiculous, but it would also feel very unfair, wouldn't it? Not even the story he's made up, but the fact that anyone would deny it happening to you. Right?

 

[cow451]

Let's be honest in the subject.

Documenting Numbers of Victims of the Holocaust and Nazi Persecution

Don't draw conclusion when someone questions the validity of a historical event.

The Germans kept lots of records, with the help of IBM.
Now, how many millions are required to meet your standard for calling it a holocaust?

 

[Albion]

The truth or falsity of the Holocaust does not rest upon having an exact and provable number of victims. The 6 million figure is an estimate and probably is approximately correct. That the intention was to eradicate the Jews is undeniable, even if other groups were targeted in different ways and for other reasons.