Holiness

JRSut1000 · Sep 9, 2011

We don't just sit back and do nothing. What kind of faith is that? We all know that faith without works is dead.

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. -II Corin 7:1

Holiness means saying NO to that sin or temptation, it means saying YES to what He told us to do. These are actions, not passivity. Holiness is in no way passive. Christ made the way clean for us, gave us a new slate. But in Him and through the Holy Spirit, we are then enabled to please God.

Nanopants · Sep 9, 2011

11822 said:
Is obeying the 10 commandments the law that makes us enemies to the cross?

It is focusing on not sinning as opposed to focusing on doing the right thing, and preaching that message which makes us enemies to the cross.

11822 · Sep 9, 2011

Nanopants said:
It is focusing on not sinning as opposed to focusing on doing the right thing, and preaching that message which makes us enemies to the cross.

The apostles taught us to do good things and not to do bad things so your argument don't sound right.

Eph_4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth

Nanopants · Sep 9, 2011

11822 said:
The apostles taught us to do good things and not to do bad things so your argument don't sound right.

Eph_4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth

How can one continue to do these things if he takes up his cross daily?

11822 · Sep 9, 2011

Saying that is like saying Jesus and the apostles are enemies of the cross.

JRSut1000 · Sep 9, 2011

Ouch!

11822 · Sep 9, 2011

Nanopants said:
How can one continue to do these things if he takes up his cross daily?

That's what i believe also, but that doesn't explain how teaching to not do bad things makes someone an enemy of the cross. I would think the opposite would be true.

Nanopants · Sep 9, 2011

11822 said:
Saying that is like saying Jesus and the apostles are enemies of the cross.

Not really.

Mat 23:26 said:
... cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

If you disagree then I'd challenge you find a passage in the NT that contradicts this. But then again I don't place bets on the texts being perfectly accurate, nor on the infalliblity of any man.

JRSut1000 · Sep 9, 2011

Throughout Scriptures, people either pray for the way they should go, or God desires to direct them in the ways they should go. But hasn't He already shown us in so many ways the ways we should go? What we should be doing? What we shouldn't be doing? Thoughout the scriptures, He shows us what we should/should not be doing for our own good and for His glory and purposes. He HAS shown us what is good and still shows us what is good. Why throw out what He knows is good for us? Nothing He ever commands whether in the OT, the NT, or directly to our lives now - none of it is evil, everything He says is good.

Frogster · Sep 9, 2011

I"m off to the temple tomorrow, to be reminded of how sinful the flesh is, over and over again, year after year, day after day, 10:11..see ya....

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.

JRSut1000 · Sep 9, 2011

I've had enough, I'm not losing sleep by staying up with useless chatter. Time for some much needed rest.

11822 · Sep 9, 2011

Nanopants said:
Not really.

If you disagree then I'd challenge you find a passage in the NT that contradicts this. But then again I don't place bets on the texts being perfectly accurate, nor on the infalliblity of any man.

I just posted a verse that shows an apostle teaching us not to do bad things. If you made a mistake forgive me, we all make mistakes, i make them daily, but what you said was not accurate.

Frogster · Sep 9, 2011

11822 said:
Saying that is like saying Jesus and the apostles are enemies of the cross.

If you truly understood the cross, you would not be about law, read Gal 3:1, and 5:24, and Col 1:22...it is done there.....God sees us holy!

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
1;22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--

CryptoLutheran · Sep 9, 2011

JRSut1000 said:
We don't just sit back and do nothing. What kind of faith is that? We all know that faith without works is dead.

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. -II Corin 7:1

Holiness means saying NO to that sin or temptation, it means saying YES to what He told us to do. These are actions, not passivity. Holiness is in no way passive. Christ made the way clean for us, gave us a new slate. But in Him and through the Holy Spirit, we are then enabled to please God.

Understanding the paradox of Christian life is the only way Scripture is going to make sense.

Here is one error: Let us continue in sin so that grace may abound!

Here is another equally grievous error: If I just try hard enough I can slowly stop sinning.

Rather: I am a great sinner who must rely on the unwavering mercy and goodness of God, apart from Whom I am without help and without hope. God, have mercy on me a sinner. Lord I believe, help me with my unbelief! United to Christ in Holy Baptism I am holy in Christ, but dead in my flesh I am corrupt and inwardly driven so that the good I will to do I don't do, while the evil I will not to do I still do--God have mercy!

So do we throw up our hands and say, "I shall continue to sin so why bother?" Of course not, in Baptism we have died to sin. Do we therefore proclaim ourselves holy and righteous saints who no longer labor under sin? Of course not, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Rather we confess we are sinners, thrust ourselves upon God's mercy, and cry out to Him to save us from every sin, every temptation, ever failure.

When the devil comes knocking, we cry out, "Lord save us!"

Know that you are a sinner, fallen in sin and without help in yourself.

Know that Christ is your Savior, cry out to Him.

The Law is there to remind you that you are a great sinner.

The Gospel is there to tell you that Christ is a Great Savior.

Therefore, trust in Christ, long for Christ, hope in Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

11822 · Sep 9, 2011

Frogster said:
If you truly understood the cross, you would not be about law, read Gal 3:1, and 5:24, and Col 1:22...it is done there.....God sees us holy!

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
1;22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--

I'm in agreement with the other poster, time for rest.

fhansen · Sep 9, 2011

11822 said:
Is obeying the 10 commandments the law that makes us enemies to the cross?

Sin is what makes us enemies of God-preferring ourselves and our own way to Him and His way, so to speak. Scripture tells us that the Law is holy and good and spiritual-but that we're not spiritual-we must come to obey by the Spirit rather than the letter because the Spirit gives life while the letter kills. This is why Pharisees could remain dead in their sins even if outwardly they obeyed the law perfectly. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus holds us to an even higher standard-He tells us that even our hearts must be pure, first of all, not merely our actions.

So it's not a matter of whether or not we must obey the Law-of course God wants us holy-that's how He made us and always intended us to be. It's a matter of how we'll obey the Law, because we'll still be declared righteous by obedience to it, according to Rom 2:13. And to be holy simply means to be wholly who He created us to be, no more, no less. But this is harder than it sounds, of course, and we can't do this so long as we're enemies of God because that's the whole point; man must be united with God-as God and man were united in Jesus, man and God must be united in us-His Spirit dwelling within, in order for us to be holy as He intends. And the enmity that causes the separation from God comes from our side, not His, from our preference for autonomy from Him.

So this is the New Covenant promise in Jer 31, which the writer of Hebrews quotes in chap 8 & 10:

10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]God must do the writing-the righteousness must come from Him rather than from having “ a[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]righteousness of my own that comes from the law”. Phil 3:9
And the righteousness of God is the righteousness that comes from love, and so the way He writes His laws on our hearts and in our minds is by conforming us to His image, which is love, because love fulfills the law according to Rom 13:8&10 and Gal 5:14 In this way He truly becomes the God of man again.

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[/FONT]

Nanopants · Sep 9, 2011

JRSut1000 said:
Throughout Scriptures, people either pray for the way they should go, or God desires to direct them in the ways they should go. But hasn't He already shown us in so many ways the ways we should go? What we should be doing? What we shouldn't be doing? Thoughout the scriptures, He shows us what we should/should not be doing for our own good and for His glory and purposes. He HAS shown us what is good and still shows us what is good. Why throw out what He knows is good for us? Nothing He ever commands whether in the OT, the NT, or directly to our lives now - none of it is evil, everything He says is good.

There is only one way which we may actually be righteous here and now, and that is by receiving the Spirit of God. Everything else is just a fruitless act, and is determined by what it is that you set your affections upon. Do you love God's old laws? That's noble, but why settle for that which is less than God Himself as He has been revealed through the image of Christ?

Mat 5:48 said:
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

God is so much greater than the law.

John 14:9 said:
... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 11:40 said:
Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

2 Cor 3:18 said:
... with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Is it any wonder that the veil of the resting place of the glory of God was torn at the moment of Christ's death? It is now revealed for all to see.

Nanopants · Sep 9, 2011

Wo0hoo, post #77 ;D

Gregory Thompson · Sep 9, 2011

Nanopants said:
Let's not forget that we are *counted* as righteous for believing:

exactly

have you considered?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+7:14&version=NIVFor the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. (1 Corinthians 7:14)

Nanopants · Sep 9, 2011

Michael Collum said:
exactly

have you considered?

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. (1 Corinthians 7:14)

Yes, of course. But that is something that rests entirely upon promise and God's ability to fulfill it. Experiencing it is something else entirely.

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