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I'm still here.LOL! even if it gets un-tame, let's bear it out....it's worth it....this subject of "holiness" was a real "stickler" for me....
Yes, good point. Whereas dogs and cats can't help but be perfectly who they are, humans and angels have the option of behaving imperfectly (of sinning) due to free will. And Jesus is telling us that we must strive for perfection, i.e. "sinlessness".Can we delve into this a little bit more? For what is also written is that our "imprefections" are the very things that separated us from God. That is why we needed/need a Saviour....let's delve into this some more
I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.Phil 3:10-14True, true. Though it is often strange to see runners continue long after the race has already been won.
Not much difference between dats and dogs, brothers and siters of the flesh or Spirit. Realitives are ususally the same as fish - after 3 days they both stink.Yes, good point. Whereas dogs and cats can't help but be perfectly who they are, humans and angels have the option of behaving imperfectly (of sinning) due to free will. And Jesus is telling us that we must strive for perfection, i.e. "sinlessness".
Yes, paul humbly admitted that he did not always walk in resurrection power, as far as Phil 3 goes. No one is Jesus.I want to know Christyes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.Phil 3:10-14
In John 8 Jesus told the woman that she was forgiven and not condemned. This speaks of the reconciliation of man with God, realized by the Atonement. He then told her to 'go, an sin no more'. This concerns our part, a part we cannot accomplish without Gods help, but one we must nevertheless strive for-if we want His help.
We don't disagree that we need God and His Son to save us. But this doesn't mean He doesn't use us in that endeavor-to use our persistence, our perseverance. IOW, we must still be vigilant, as the virgins with their lamps, we must still invest the grace given, as the servants with the talents. And, while God may know who will persevere until the end, we have no way of knowing, so this idea that God will see to it that the work is completed in us is absolutely true but it's largely an academic theological point for us-because we can't know absolutely who it pertains to.Yes, paul humbly admitted that he did not always walk in resurrection power, as far as Phil 3 goes. No one is Jesus.
But...
Romans 8:31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised— who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
I want to know Christyes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.Phil 3:10-14
In John 8 Jesus told the woman that she was forgiven and not condemned. This speaks of the reconciliation of man with God, realized by the Atonement. He then told her to 'go, an sin no more'. This concerns our part, a part we cannot accomplish without Gods help, but one we must nevertheless strive for-if we want His help.
As frogster already pointed out, there seems to be a contradiction here if we assume that this passage means that we must labor for our salvation.
Furthermore, it is stated in Philippians 3:9
"And be found in [Christ], not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."
So clearly this is not about obedience to a set of rules, or else the author would have contradicted himself. So what is he pressing on toward? The author explains that he wants to "know Christyes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death".
How else can we do this other than by taking up our own crosses and following after him? Again, everything else simply falls short.
Running doesn't do any good unless we're running for the right reasons.
We can only begin to appropriate the righteousness of God if we first start believing in Him and His promises-all revealed most exhaustively by and through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's the only meaning of faith here-it's the essential beginning of a restored relationship of man with God whereby God ultimately becomes the god of man again. It can't happen without grace, but it can't proceed from there without mans' response-first a response of faith, and continuing on from there to a closer and closer walk with God and obedience to what He guides us to do.Furthermore, it is stated in Philippians 3:9
"And be found in [Christ], not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."
As frogster already pointed out, there seems to be a contradiction here if we assume that this passage means that we must labor for our salvation.
Not sure where you’re going with this. Are you saying there’s an essential difference between salvation and eternal life?So what is he pressing on toward? The author explains that he wants to "know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death".
We don't disagree that we need God and His Son to save us. But this doesn't mean He doesn't use us in that endeavor-to use our persistence, our perseverance. IOW, we must still be vigilant, as the virgins with their lamps, we must still invest the grace given, as the servants with the talents. And, while God may know who will persevere until the end, we have no way of knowing, so this idea that God will see to it that the work is completed in us is absolutely true but it's largely an academic theological point for us-because we can't know absolutely who it pertains to.
And this is why there's so much stress in the gospels for us to do our part. You'd think they wouldn't bother at all with such language if there's no need whatsoever for our efforts but, the truth be known, there has to be an onus on man-to do whats right-just like there was an onus on Adam & Eve. What we do counts, just like what Adam & Eve did counted. Everything in life is that way-and thats the lesson man needs to learn-that He needs God, he must turn to God, and he should obey God out of love for Him and His goodness. And this can take time. And this is why we live in a world where this opportunity exists, the opportunity to learn of our needfulness. And this is why our Catechism teaches thusly:
396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die."276 The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represents that one thing we often find ourselves rebelling against-the idea that we have limitations, we're obliged, we owe our obedience to a superior authority, we can't get away with anything we want, we must choose and act rightly. While we're free to act outside of the nature God's given us we nonetheless do not have the right to do so.
I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying that we seek to be holy and to walk in the Spirit by following after him, taking up our crosses.
Peace and meekness should never be used as an excuse to cover up a serious error though. No ill will intended.
Good stuff..raised up with Christ, resurrection power was the answer for Paul Rom 6, Eph 2:6, Col 2:12, Col 3:1.As frogster already pointed out, there seems to be a contradiction here if we assume that this passage means that we must labor for our salvation.
Furthermore, it is stated in Philippians 3:9
"And be found in [Christ], not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."
So clearly this is not about obedience to a set of rules, or else the author would have contradicted himself. So what is he pressing on toward? The author explains that he wants to "know Christyes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death".
How else can we do this other than by taking up our own crosses and following after him? Again, everything else simply falls short.
Running doesn't do any good unless we're running for the right reasons.
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