Holiness VS Worldliness

[Avid]

Well Done! While I might differ on the interpretation of John 16 that you gave you show that you are well read and articulate.

The problem with editing has to do with my old browser and old computer. I got a different old computer now.


Please let me know what your issue is with what I said about that passage in John 16. It was not too important to the subject, so it may not have even been stated the way I meant it.

I always like the discussions we have, and look forward to reading what you have to say.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I strongly agree with conscientious opposition to worldly conformity.

That being said, I don't believe in conservative people trying to police others over subjective externals. One person's supposed bad habit might be another person's chosen witness means (e.g., Christian fish tattoo on wrist <><, etc., or whatever).

What we need to concentrate on individually is daily prayer and Bible reading, and thes activities are more likely to produce God honoring strong witness, than being negative about other people's subjective externals.

A God honoring strong witness is always in agreement with His Word, and that requires obedience. Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments." He never said "I love you, so if you feel like getting a tattoo, I'm cool with it".
He IS the Word of God, and the Word of God says to "put no mark on your body".

By supporting tattoos as a matter of personal preference, you are giving a good example of worldliness contrasted against holiness. You would fit right in with the Israelites who abandoned Moses and turned aside from the way God commanded them. The way He commands is holiness unto the Lord. That's what the OP is about.

You need to read the Bible references of the OP and give this more thought.

The Bible clearly speaks against tattoos, and to say you can get one as a Christian witness tool is rebellious. The grace of God is not a license for permissiveness. There is no such thing as a "God-honoring" tattoo. How can something be "God-honoring" when it dishonors his Word which clearly says do not put any mark on your body?

I have a tattoo. It's a cross, a Christian cross. There is no way I'm going to try to say anything other than it's wrong to put a mark on your body. I have one, and it's not easy to remove or it would be gone. The Bible says it's wrong, I say it's wrong. I take sides with God against myself. If you won't agree with God on what is wrong, how can you say you are honoring God?


What you are doing by calling externals people's subjective things is saying that the people are not subjective to God regarding their "externals". That is a worldly, unholy, ungodly way of thinking. Holiness demands that we be subject to God in all we do, say, and think, not choose our own personal preferences to make them subjective to our own feelings.

I don't think anybody is trying to police anybody. All I'm trying to do in this thread is point out the difference between holiness and worldliness as illustrated by Moses who climbed into the mountain to be with God, and came down shining from being near God, and that holiness contrasted against the worldliness of the children of Israel who turned out of the way God commanded them. The way God commands is always holiness, honoring God in everything we do, say, and think.

If you feel you need to be permissive in your behavior, go ahead. Get a tattoo if you don't care what the Bible says about it. But if you want to tell me it's honoring to God, I'll have to tell you it's rebellion in your heart making you say that. I can't ignore what the Bible says about tattoos, and tell you it's ok to get a tattoo, so that you don't feel "judged". Sorry.

If you think speaking against things that are wrong is bad, I have to say you are wrong. God set's the standard of right and wrong, and it's clear in His Word that He wants us to strive to keep the highest standards representing Him and representing His displeasure with the world. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. Tattoos are worldly, you can't put a picture of Jesus on your arm and call it heavenly.

God wants us to show the joy of serving Him in holiness, not the pleasures of taking His grace for granted while we indulge in the world's delights and try to pass it off as being spiritual.

How in the world can people just take God's command for us to be holy as He is holy and twist it into having a license to act and talk like lost people in the world in tattoos, the way we dress, the songs we sing, or the places we go or the way we talk or the things we do, and the value we place on the things of this world?

Nobody is trying to police anybody, except for God who is trying to police everybody. The wicked will be policed by God into Hell, His children will be policed by Him into holiness. It's better to pursue holiness willfully than to take for granted that God will make you holy in the future or he made you holy by saving you so you don't have to worry about looking, acting, or talking like you are holy.

 

[twin1954]

The problem with editing has to do with my old browser and old computer. I got a different old computer now.


Please let me know what your issue is with what I said about that passage in John 16. It was not too important to the subject, so it may not have even been stated the way I meant it.

I always like the discussions we have, and look forward to reading what you have to say.

(Joh 16:8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

(Joh 16:9) Of sin, because they believe not on me;

(Joh 16:10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

(Joh 16:11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


I believe you used the passage the way it is commonly used to state that the Spirit is reproving the world of sin. But if you look in your margin the word means convince.

The proper interpretation is that the Spirit comes to the chosen sinner and convinces him of his sin, of the righteousness of Christ as his only justification before God and of the fact that judgment is past for the believer.

Why do I say this? Because of the following verses where the Lord explains His meaning.

(Joh 16:9) Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Pretty self explanatory.

(Joh 16:10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

This one takes a little more thinking to understand. Why did the Lord ascend to the Father? It was because He had accomplished justification for all His elect.
(Rom 4:25) Who was delivered for(because of) our offences, and was raised again for(because of) our justification.


(Joh 16:11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Again this one is pretty self explanatory but it may need a little commentary. When was Satan judged? Was it not when Christ died and rose again? When were we judged? Was it not when Christ died and rose again?


Now this has no bearing on the topic of the thread so if anyone wishes to deny the interpretation given start another thread. I do not wish to derail this one.

 

[Avid]

Separate yourself from the world and see how long it takes for you to be proud of your holiness.

There are only two results from such practices: you are robbed of all peace because you can't live up to the standard or you become so self-righteous that you rely on your self instead of on Christ.

This lack of any humility makes the person who has no understanding to be proud of his holiness. He is made aware of that, tries to humble himself, and then becomes proud of his humility. A preacher told me that the crucifixion of the flesh does not come as we are stuffed away in some monastery, but this comes when we are out and around other people. That is how the flesh is crucified, and how we are divested of SELF as the ruling power in the heart of man.

We may think we are now something, because we perceive God has chosen to teach us something of His truth. We are somewhat puffed up, and God must send someone to put a hole in that bubble. For John Bunyan, this came as a woman he had nothing, but disdain for, rightly rebuked him. That is right. Someone you least expect, and least wish to do the chastising, may be the person God sends to humble you, if you refuse to learn a lesson God sends your way.

 

[Avid]

... I believe you used the passage the way it is commonly used to state that the Spirit is reproving the world of sin. But if you look in your margin the word means convince.

The proper interpretation is that the Spirit comes to the chosen sinner and convinces him of his sin, of the righteousness of Christ as his only justification before God and of the fact that judgment is past for the believer...

As I guessed, I have no problem agreeing with the way you are describing it.

Thanks for pointing these things out for us all to read.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

No he meant kool-aid. It's a figure of speech.

As for alcohol, are you against any and all alcohol consumption?

While I have never been drunk, I do have a wine cooler every now and then. Maybe some champagne on our anniversary or for another celebratory event.

I have nothing against alcohol as long as it's in moderation. You drunk not to get drunk, but just a glass here or there. My grandfather would have one beer a week, on Sundays with our pasta dinner (we're Italian) as well as maybe a glass of wine for Thanksgiving or Christmas. My grandfather was captain of the ushers for 25 years at the Catholic church that I grew up in.

My Lutheran friend, please don't be offended by what I am going to say here. I remember your wonderful salvation testimony, and for that I think kindly of you if you have a wine cooler here and there or not. I'm not anybody to tell you what to do, but I have studied this subject extensively and for many years gave myself permission to indulge in moderate alcohol consumption using the same arguments from Romans 14 and other passages which people in this thread are using to make allowances for ungodly pleasures. Alcohol is a self-indulgent thing. Noah was a righteous man, he got drunk, and God did not condemn him for it but it caused a lot of hard consequences because one of his grandsons was cursed for looking on Noah's drunken nakedness. The Bible is clear that we are supposed to stay away from alcohol. The people who say things like "he that condemns not himself in the things that they allow" and stuff like that to use it as an excuse for indulging with alcohol are still acting worldly, ungodly, when they indulge. I'm not going to say you are a wicked person if you have a drink or two now or then. I can't say it's ok and I can't say it's good and I can't say God does not care if you indulge in moderation. That's another verse people use to excuse a drink of two..."all things in moderation" or "let your moderation be known unto all men". I took college classes supporting those kind of arguments, and I was very good at making those arguments before I took the college classes in a Christian College. It's wrong. We are called to holiness, not to compromise so we can have a social drink like the rest of the world and go with the flow of the gathering.

Yes I am against all alcohol consumption. I think it's clear the Bible is against it. When Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake, I don't think he was talking about alcoholic wine. Grape juice was called wine in Bible times. When Jesus made water into wine at the wedding, He performed that miracle in vessels which had been purified according to mosaic law. That means no leavening, which would cause alcohol in the wine. There is one passage in the Old Testament where God told the Israelites to buy wine and strong drink to celebrate, but that was a one time command which was to be obeyed. Everything else in the Bible is against indulging in intoxicating substances, specifically mentioning alcohol.


Again, my Lutheran friend, this is not an issue we have to be enemies over. When people get offended by my position on this issue, that's a good sign that they have a much deeper pride issue in their hearts than the issue of moderate alcohol usage. I hope you can see I am not against you, I am against alcohol. I will not go to any restaurant, bowling alley, or sporting event where alcohol is served. If I could, I would only buy my groceries from stores that do not sell alcohol, but those are hard to find. I think there is only one grocery store near me that does not sell alcohol, and I can't shop there all the time. I will not allow alcohol in my house, I won't even pick up a returnable beer can to claim the 10 cent deposit.
I want the whole world to know I am property of the one who bought me with His life's blood and justifies me in His resurrection, and I do everything I can to avoid any appearance that my affections are on the things of this world which will be burned away, more than my affections are on the treasure I hope is being laid up in heaven for me by my own efforts. Jesus said I'm supposed to lay up treasure in heaven, where my treasure is there will my heart be also....there are rewards to be gained and opportunities to be missed in the way we handle our time.

If family gatherings are going to have alcohol involved, I won't be there and they know it's because I'm a Christian. If they think that's bad of me, well...I am more concerned about what God thinks. I can't place family affections above my affection for the one who said "if any man love father or mother, sister or brother, more than me, he is not worthy to be my disciple". We are even supposed to hate our own life, and that's the old me, the self-centered me, the things that will be judged and burned away, the things I get no reward for in heaven, the things that mean I could have used the time better to do things that would remain in heaven forever honoring to God. Every word matters, every thought matters, every action matters. They will be either remembered in heaven as honorable with rewards accordingly, or they will be found dishonorable to God and burned up and forgotten with no reward for the time wasted in them.

Many here think I'm being judgmental or self-righteous or whatever. They are wrong. I simply desire to serve God and honor Him in everything I do, everything I say, and everywhere I go. I'll be the first to admit I fall short and deserve to die for my sins NOW. Every morning, as quickly as I can remember, I thank God for his mercy because the only thing new in this world is God's mercy by which we are not consumed. We need His mercy every moment because we are sinners. I know I'm a wicked sinner and I deserve to die for my sin now and there is never a moment of the time God gave me when I don't deserve to die and burn in Hell for my sin. I know I'm ugly at heart, and I despise myself for it, and thank God for everything He gives me no matter how bad or hard it may seem because it's better than I deserve.

I can't say I approve of moderate drinking, but you sure gave a fine salvation testimony and I look forward to talking with you in heaven one day if I never meet you on earth.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

edited

 

[SaintJoeNow]

St.Joe,
There is a terrible thing that happened in Guyana almost 40 years ago. A fellow named Jim Jones set up a cult colony (Jonestown,) and was doing questionable things. At one point, a US Congressman went to Guyana to see if something should be done about it. The long story short was that they shot him to death, and his entourage, then made a suicide pact. It is an erroneous report, but, supposedly, the whole 900+ group of people in the cult colony drank Kool Aid laced with Cyanide poison. They found the people all lying in family groups in multiple layers, rotting in the heat.

The error may be considered a questionable conclusion, but that report is what everyone uses for the quip. If you are SO SOLD OUT to your CULT, you will drink what you know to be poison laced Kool Aid, if you are told to do that by trusted leaders.

Wow, I didn't know that. You won't catch me using the Kool aid quip that way. That's an awful cold way to talk. How would you like to be the person who loved that congressman who was killed, or loved one of the victims of that poisoned kool aid, and run into such cold reference to the event when people are using it as a figure of speech with no respect for you?

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I do remember the event, I think it was the Jim Jones massacre, no? But I didn't know the Kool Aid quip was a figure of speech based on that event. That's awful.

 

[Boidae]

My Lutheran friend, please don't be offended by what I am going to say here. I remember your wonderful salvation testimony, and for that I think kindly of you if you have a wine cooler here and there or not. I'm not anybody to tell you what to do, but I have studied this subject extensively and for many years gave myself permission to indulge in moderate alcohol consumption using the same arguments from Romans 14 and other passages which people in this thread are using to make allowances for ungodly pleasures. Alcohol is a self-indulgent thing. Noah was a righteous man, he got drunk, and God did not condemn him for it but it caused a lot of hard consequences because one of his grandsons was cursed for looking on Noah's drunken nakedness. The Bible is clear that we are supposed to stay away from alcohol. The people who say things like "he that condemns not himself in the things that they allow" and stuff like that to use it as an excuse for indulging with alcohol are still acting worldly, ungodly, when they indulge. I'm not going to say you are a wicked person if you have a drink or two now or then. I can't say it's ok and I can't say it's good and I can't say God does not care if you indulge in moderation. That's another verse people use to excuse a drink of two..."all things in moderation" or "let your moderation be known unto all men". I took college classes supporting those kind of arguments, and I was very good at making those arguments before I took the college classes in a Christian College. It's wrong. We are called to holiness, not to compromise so we can have a social drink like the rest of the world and go with the flow of the gathering.

Yes I am against all alcohol consumption. I think it's clear the Bible is against it. When Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake, I don't think he was talking about alcoholic wine. Grape juice was called wine in Bible times. When Jesus made water into wine at the wedding, He performed that miracle in vessels which had been purified according to mosaic law. That means no leavening, which would cause alcohol in the wine. There is one passage in the Old Testament where God told the Israelites to buy wine and strong drink to celebrate, but that was a one time command which was to be obeyed. Everything else in the Bible is against indulging in intoxicating substances, specifically mentioning alcohol.


Again, my Lutheran friend, this is not an issue we have to be enemies over. When people get offended by my position on this issue, that's a good sign that they have a much deeper pride issue in their hearts than the issue of moderate alcohol usage. I hope you can see I am not against you, I am against alcohol. I will not go to any restaurant, bowling alley, or sporting event where alcohol is served. If I could, I would only buy my groceries from stores that do not sell alcohol, but those are hard to find. I think there is only one grocery store near me that does not sell alcohol, and I can't shop there all the time. I will not allow alcohol in my house, I won't even pick up a returnable beer can to claim the 10 cent deposit.
I want the whole world to know I am property of the one who bought me with His life's blood and justifies me in His resurrection, and I do everything I can to avoid any appearance that my affections are on the things of this world which will be burned away, more than my affections are on the treasure I hope is being laid up in heaven for me by my own efforts. Jesus said I'm supposed to lay up treasure in heaven, where my treasure is there will my heart be also....there are rewards to be gained and opportunities to be missed in the way we handle our time.

If family gatherings are going to have alcohol involved, I won't be there and they know it's because I'm a Christian. If they think that's bad of me, well...I am more concerned about what God thinks. I can't place family affections above my affection for the one who said "if any man love father or mother, sister or brother, more than me, he is not worthy to be my disciple". We are even supposed to hate our own life, and that's the old me, the self-centered me, the things that will be judged and burned away, the things I get no reward for in heaven, the things that mean I could have used the time better to do things that would remain in heaven forever honoring to God. Every word matters, every thought matters, every action matters. They will be either remembered in heaven as honorable with rewards accordingly, or they will be found dishonorable to God and burned up and forgotten with no reward for the time wasted in them.

Many here think I'm being judgmental or self-righteous or whatever. They are wrong. I simply desire to serve God and honor Him in everything I do, everything I say, and everywhere I go. I'll be the first to admit I fall short and deserve to die for my sins NOW. Every morning, as quickly as I can remember, I thank God for his mercy because the only thing new in this world is God's mercy by which we are not consumed. We need His mercy every moment because we are sinners. I know I'm a wicked sinner and I deserve to die for my sin now and there is never a moment of the time God gave me when I don't deserve to die and burn in Hell for my sin. I know I'm ugly at heart, and I despise myself for it, and thank God for everything He gives me no matter how bad or hard it may seem because it's better than I deserve.

I can't say I approve of moderate drinking, but you sure gave a fine salvation testimony and I look forward to talking with you in heaven one day if I never meet you on earth.

Not offended at all.

When I say here or there, I mean if I have one wine cooler a year, that's saying much. I am not an alcohol drinker, never have been and never really will be.

 

[rockytopva]

One of the dangers of holiness is that it can re-introduce a works based salvation...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-vsIt2j06k

 

[now faith]

I do remember the event, I think it was the Jim Jones massacre, no? But I didn't know the Kool Aid quip was a figure of speech based on that event. That's awful.

Yes it is awful, so is the lost perishing in Hell.

Luke: 11. 37. And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat. 38. And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. 39. And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. 40. Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? 41. But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. 42. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 43. Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. 44. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them. 45. Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. 46. And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. 47. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. 48. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. 49. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50. That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51. From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. 52. Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. 53. And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things: 54. Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

 

[now faith]

One of the dangers of holiness is that it can re-introduce a works based salvation...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-vsIt2j06k

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


James: 1. 23. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24. For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. 26. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Correct me if I'm wrong,but you presented the video on Holiness right?

 

[now faith]

This lack of any humility makes the person who has no understanding to be proud of his holiness. He is made aware of that, tries to humble himself, and then becomes proud of his humility. A preacher told me that the crucifixion of the flesh does not come as we are stuffed away in some monastery, but this comes when we are out and around other people. That is how the flesh is crucified, and how we are divested of SELF as the ruling power in the heart of man.

We may think we are now something, because we perceive God has chosen to teach us something of His truth. We are somewhat puffed up, and God must send someone to put a hole in that bubble. For John Bunyan, this came as a woman he had nothing, but disdain for, rightly rebuked him. That is right. Someone you least expect, and least wish to do the chastising, may be the person God sends to humble you, if you refuse to learn a lesson God sends your way.

It's unbelievable I would use a quote from this man,but what this context from you and Twin sounds like is living life past your pay grade quote Obama.

 

[now faith]

Don't confuse living a godly life with holiness.

(Tit 2:1) But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

(Tit 2:2) That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

(Tit 2:3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

(Tit 2:4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

(Tit 2:5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

(Tit 2:6) Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

(Tit 2:7) In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

(Tit 2:8) Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

(Tit 2:9) Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

(Tit 2:10) Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

(Tit 2:11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

(Tit 2:12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

(Tit 2:13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


You can separate yourself from the world but the problem of your sin still remains. Moreover if you think you make yourself pleasing to God by your holy consecration you have not yet learned Christ. If you think that by being "holy" God will be more pleased with you or bless and use you more then you have not yet learned Christ.

The New Testament teaches us to rest in Christ alone for all things and to live as though we do.

Amen


2 Corinthians: 4. 1. Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2. But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[now faith]

I think this post ranks right up there with the most ungodly post I have ever seen on this website.

Yep it's bad he also has other teaching where he hates homosexuals, and many other outlandish sermons.

Those who would use the render unto Caesar analogy as to obeying the law of the land,would be strongly against this man's disobedience to authorities.

 

[Devorim]

I do remember the event, I think it was the Jim Jones massacre, no? But I didn't know the Kool Aid quip was a figure of speech based on that event. That's awful.

Haha! Have to write this: When we moved from CA to MS, I saw two water fountains in the zoo entrance: one marked "WHITE" and one marked "COLORED." The only thing that made sense was that the one marked "COLORED" had Kool Aid in it. Of course, I wanted a drink! Someone choked me in order to stop me. I wish I had made it to that fountain.....

 

[Avid]

It's unbelievable I would use a quote from this man,but what this context from you and Twin sounds like is living life past your pay grade quote Obama.

Sorry but I did not understand this. Could you say it differently? Maybe there is a question in there I did not get.

Help me out.

 

[now faith]

He died for sins yet to be committed? Which ones are those? Can you name them for us? Theft? Murder? Fornication? Drunkenness? Lasciviousness?
It really doesn't matter, it's all covered by His blood, right?

Please show me in the Bible where it says Christ died for sins yet to be committed, so I know it's ok when I sin.

Faith without works is dead. Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

You can't be a disciple of Christ if you are un-disciplined. If you are undisciplined and you are a child of God with Jesus Christ living in you by His Spirit, He is going to chastise you until you are disciplined. God calls us to holiness, like it or not. When you like it, you can't get enough of it. When you don't like it, you try to make excuses for being undisciplined. I'm sure you are a wonderful disciple of Jesus Christ and that you are disciplined by Him. I simply don't know what you are trying to prove, so I guess I'm hearing you saying things you really are not saying. God loves you and so do I.

I'm using a lot of "ifs" here because I'm giving you every possible benefit of a doubt in desire of believing that you are not tolerating sin in your life. I'm sure you are not tolerating sin in your life. I simply don't know what you are fighting against in this thread.

Not quoting Romans 8 about condemnation, this may help you on understanding
that all sin was [past tense ]forgiven :

Romans: 5. 17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


I'm not fighting anything in this thread,as far I'm concerned Iron sharpens Iron.

 

[now faith]

Sorry but I did not understand this. Could you say it differently? Maybe there is a question in there I did not get.

Help me out.

Our righteous deeds are as filthy rags compared to the righteousness of God [paraphrase]

But to think we are pleasing to God by our own holiness rather than Christ is past our pay grade.

Sorry anything quoted by Obama is confusing.