Holidays

[EastCoastRemnant]

Stinsonmarri and ECR, there is another problem with your reasoning here. There are ALL kinds of praise and worship given to God in the Bible, some that neither of you would condone, but the Bible being an ancient(but still the living Word of God) text, God has already condoned those forms of worship. The only form of worship God does not accept is that which comes form an insincere, proud heart. This was further demonstrated by Jesus pointing out the examples in the temple of the publican and the widow.

So while you two(and others) are focusing, once again, on the outward appearance, God is looking on the heart.

So by your reasoning, the poor Israelites that mistakenly thought to honour God with the building of a golden calf, they were worshipping according to their life experience and should have been accepted because of their sincere intentions? What about Cain? what about Aarons sons? what about Saul? What about the countless other people that sought to do according to their own reasoning and not do as God explicitly asked?

Why do so many people think that there are many paths to God? Is this not religion of convenience? Is this not Satanic delusion that they may believe a lie??

 

[k4c]

Stinsonmarri and ECR, there is another problem with your reasoning here. There are ALL kinds of praise and worship given to God in the Bible, some that neither of you would condone, but the Bible being an ancient(but still the living Word of God) text, God has already condoned those forms of worship. The only form of worship God does not accept is that which comes form an insincere, proud heart. This was further demonstrated by Jesus pointing out the examples in the temple of the publican and the widow.

So while you two(and others) are focusing, once again, on the outward appearance, God is looking on the heart.

From Genises to Revelation God is looking for a people to call His own. A people who know God and His will and obey out of love. This obedience is not haphazard, but rather, it's based on what God has said. God is very paticular in how we worship Him. Arrons sons brought strange incense into the Sanctuary and God burned them up. Uzzah touch the Ark and God killed him even though Uzzah's intentions were good but he knew the will of God.

The problem lies when people know the will of God and refuse to obey. God understands we are but dust and He does look at the heart. But what He is looking at is our motived and our understanding of His will. If we know the will of God and don't do it based on our own pleasure seeking desire then we will have a problem. God looks at the heart but He is also looking at obedinece from the heart. He understands we are growing and He winks at the things we do out of ignorance but now He is commanding everyone everywhere to repent.

The only thing that determines true worship, obedience and God's people is God's Law. Love alone is not the true sign, faith alone is not the true sign not even lip service because many religions have faith and love, even the wicked have faith, love and good works. The only determining factor is seen in the details of what a person is doing in light of what God has said. This is why the Sabbath is such a big issue because it truely sets God's people apart from all the other religions of the world that have love, faith and good works.

Ezekiel 20:19-20 I am the Lord your God. Keep my laws, respect my judgements and practise them. Keep my Sabbaths holy; let them be a sign between me and you, so that people may know that I am the LORD your God.

 

[Princessdi]

You two have got to be kidding me here.

Stinsonmarri, I was talking about praise and worship given to God. You could not really believe that I was talking about the COI when they worshipped the golden calf because Moses stayed upon the mountain too long. That is ridiculous. They didn't even pretend they were worshipping God.

K4c, Your reasoning infers that there is a human element, something we need to do to be saved. The rich young ruler was obedient, he was still missing something.......according to Jesus. He went away sad, remember.

This mistake comes from a mistaken idea of Who God is.............sigh.......

 

[Byfaithalone1]

This mistake comes from a mistaken idea of Who God is.............sigh.......

Indeed . . . and how He relates to His people. There are many SDAs who have rejected a works-based gospel and yet continue to be active in the SDA denomination.

BFA

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

They didn't even pretend they were worshipping God.

Ex 32:4,5
And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

 

[stinsonmarri]

You two have got to be kidding me here.

Stinsonmarri, I was talking about praise and worship given to God. You could not really believe that I was talking about the COI when they worshipped the golden calf because Moses stayed upon the mountain too long. That is ridiculous. They didn't even pretend they were worshipping God.

Greetings Princess: ​

Now where did I mention about the golden calf? Please quote me correctly but let me tell you something. You know most people really do not understand what actually happen concerning the molten calf. We just don't really get it so I hope you understand. I said this before that only the Hebrews used the word Elohim which is plural for more than one Supreme Being. They wanted more than to have some statue to represent Elohim. Do you remember that a cloud was with them during the day and fire at night! They thought that these things were Elohim but these objects were not The Supreme Beings. They have fingers, nose, mouth and They talk and They have feelings, They have feet and hair! But Israelites being so long in Egypt forgot who Elohim were and they felt that Moses was gone to long! He was gone for a little over a month and they panic. Do you realize what Aaron did and what he said to them and let them believe? You know most pick up bits and pieces of what someone told you instead of taking the time to read these stories and then understanding the accurate words that were in Hebrew and Greek. Now if you can misunderstand and quote me wrong about speaking on the molten calf before that lets me wonder have you read and study this story?

And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us elohim, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy elohim, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, Tomorrow is a feast to YAHWEH. And YAHWEH said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy elohim, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Ex 32:1, 4, 5, 7, 8

Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy Elohim that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations; Neh 9:18

They made a calf in Horeb, and worshipped the molten image. Thus they changed their glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass. They forgat Elohim their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt; Psa 106:19-21

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of the Savior: for it is the power of Elohim unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of Elohim revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all *irreverent and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of Elohim is manifest in them; for Elohim hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and *divinity; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew Elohim, they glorified him not as Elohim, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible Elohim into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore Elohim also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of Elohim into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 1:16-25


When I put an asterisk by a word I changed it to its actual meaning look it up in the Strong dictionary please.
People the Bible speaks for itself and what's ever in the Old Testament is in the New Testament say amen to the OT! The Jews were not the first nation of people called. Melchizedek was not a Jew but a Jebusite. Oh yeah he was black and so were the Canaanite because Yahweh is no respect of persons. He was the one who built Jerusalem (Salem is short for Jeru-Salem) and David expanded it. And please he was a man and his family was not recorded read what these words mean. Read Strong dictionary please and stop listening to people who do not understand what the words actually mean!

But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Gen 15:16

But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Gen 20:4

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high Elohim. Gen 14:18

YAHWEH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. Psa 110:4

For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high Elohim, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of Elohim; abideth a priest continually. Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. Heb 7:1-4

BFA this is for you!

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. I YAHWEH have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; Isa 42:1-4, 6

And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto YAHWEH out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith YAHWEH, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of YAHWEH. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith YAHWEH. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YAHWEH, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YAHWEH. Isa 66:19-23

O YAHWEH, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. Jer 16:19

Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O YAHWEH. Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. Joel 3:9-12

But when Yashua knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. Mat 12:15-18

A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:32

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. Act 10:45

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of Elohim. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of Elohim should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath YAHWEH commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of YAHWEH: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Act 13:44-48

For there is no respect of persons with Elohim. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another Rom 2:11-15

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; Rom 3:9​

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Rom 9:30, 31 ​

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Greetings Princess: ​

Now where did I mention about the golden calf?

She was mistaken and was refering to my comment, Marrion...

Btw, I don't want to come across as critical but most of your posts are very long and somewhat detached from normal conversational form. I say this, because it tends to cause people not to read them... at least that is my confession. You answer a question that reqires a sentance or two with paragraphs of material. I am sure it is all very good information but I, for one will never find out. Sorry...

 

[stinsonmarri]

She was mistaken and was refering to my comment, Marrion...

Btw, I don't want to come across as critical but most of your posts are very long and somewhat detached from normal conversational form. I say this, because it tends to cause people not to read them... at least that is my confession. You answer a question that reqires a sentance or two with paragraphs of material. I am sure it is all very good information but I, for one will never find out. Sorry...

Greetings ECR

I am sorry that you feel that way. But I have seen many people leave quite a bite and most of my answers come from Scriptures. I say very little and let the Scriptures do the talking. I knew it came from you and you said very little so how could she confuse me with you? I speak as the Holy Spirit gives me. They hear because they make comments. Hear is my word from Scripture to you and I hope you take it well also:

Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 8 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. Eze 3:17-19

Peace and blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

ECR:

I forgot something please forgive. Where are they detached? Now maybe it is long because I put two or more people thoughts together as I view the various discussions and that is discomforting than I will take each one comments at a time!

Peace,
stinsonmarri

 

[SAMMISPARROW]

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to conclude with your statements, but the main thing is that Jesus was definitely born to Save us, and that's enough reason to celebrate, even if more than that is celebrated. Don't you agree?

Sammi

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

ECR:

I forgot something please forgive. Where are they detached? Now maybe it is long because I put two or more people thoughts together as I view the various discussions and that is discomforting than I will take each one comments at a time!

Peace,
stinsonmarri

That was what I was trying to convey sister... I have been frequenting forums for many years and the attention span of most posters is short... not a comment on them personally, it's just the fast flowing nature of the internet. In my opinion, multiple posts are more effective to address different comments or issues.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to conclude with your statements, but the main thing is that Jesus was definitely born to Save us, and that's enough reason to celebrate, even if more than that is celebrated. Don't you agree?

Sammi

The question is... what do you do to celebrate? Does it involve any of the pagan rituals that have become accepted tradition within our society? How do these things honour God? If you have choldren, do they believe in Santa Claus?

 

[Princessdi]

Aaron said that trying to cover himself. Here is what the people told him to do and about their intentions:

Exodus 32:1

1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him

My apologies Stinsonmarri, that was ECR who mentioned the golden calf.

Ex 32:4,5
And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

 

[stinsonmarri]

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to conclude with your statements, but the main thing is that Jesus was definitely born to Save us, and that's enough reason to celebrate, even if more than that is celebrated. Don't you agree?

Sammi

Sammi:​

We are dealing with human beings who like to change things around to suite themselves. Like you may celebrate your birthday on a different day but not far away. The Savior was born in the spring of the year and not the winter. If He wanted us to know when He was born He would have provided it just He did with His death and resurrection. Most people do not celebrate His birth but party, drink, giving out gifts, suicide, and over spend. This day is a mockery to the Savior and you cannot make out something that is a lie to be something good is just don't work. The Father clearly states that He detest lying and to lie that His Son was born on this death is an insult to the Most High. The day stands for a Catholic mass and I suggest you look up how they do this ritual you would be shocked.


Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

Aaron said that trying to cover himself. Here is what the people told him to do and about their intentions:

Exodus 32:1

1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him

My apologies Stinsonmarri, that was ECR who mentioned the golden calf.

Princess:

Your apology is humbly accepted. Yes you are correct they wanted the calf but Aaron also was at fault by calling it Yahweh. My point about the holiday is that many are sincere but this will not save them. Did you know that holiday really means holy day and do you know why? From the beginning of time after Cain departed from his family everyone had some type of feast days but they went against the Most High's instructions. All nations sacrifice daily and more on their feast days this was a common practice. Where do you think that all these nations got them from but through the original Creator who gave it to Adam. After the dispersion of the mass of people at the tower of Babel they took all the false rituals and customs with them all over the world. Everyone celebrates Christmas it is a worldwide feast day or holy day and that's what many of you don't seem to understand. On Christmas in the past America and Russia would put their differences aside and call each other with wishes on this day. You cannot change what this day is base on and that is pagan practices. Would you want to worship in a building that you know they practice Satan's rituals? Of course you wouldn't so how much more would you asked the Almighty Ones to accept a day that has been known for centuries as a day for worshiping Satan's rituals?
Finally, do you remember when David was bringing the Ark of the Covenant back to Jerusalem? It was brought back on a cart drove by oxen which is not the way Yahweh had instructed it to be carried. They were sincere and David was leaping and dancing for joy but something dreadful happen! A solider by the name of Uzzah was walking beside the Ark and as a good solider he saw the Ark tip over appearing to fall and he tried to rescue it. However, soon as he touched it he was instantly struck down and died. David stop in his track and they went back and study how to bring the Ark correctly. He put Adam and Eve out for making one mistake and there are more stories like this in the Bible. He is just, loving but Yahweh demands strict obedience and loyalty. You heard that there is a way that seem right but this way wasn't and it will lead to your downfall. You can't make something holy or truthful or good if it is created from a lie and evilness. 2Samuel Chapter Six; Pro 14:12; Matt 7:12-14

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri​

 

[Byfaithalone1]

This day is a mockery to the Savior and you cannot make out something that is a lie to be something good is just don't work.

If we avoided all things that have become a mockery in certain places and among certain people, there would be no sabbatarians.

It is true that certain people do not understand the real importance of the event being celebrated. However, this fact does not diminish the value of the celebration among those who do.

BFA

 

[Princessdi]

Actually, I can separate the day we celebrate as Christmas from the one that had it's start in Europe. Whent he Puritans came to this country, they did nto celebrate anything, especially Christimas the way it was Celebrated in England. In fact, for some years before they came there was a king who out lawed Christmas, because they way they celebrated was extremely barbarack(sp), sorry a little sleepy. hehehe!. So whent hey came the next king had reinstituted the celebrations, but not so barbaracka nd violent. The Puritans, however, wre not infavor of this and celebrating Christmas carried some dire consequenced here iinthe new land.

it was later that we we made our own traditions for Christmas, including the poinsettias(sp) from South America. We got the "christmas" tree from winter soltice celebrations of Northern Germany?( I wil have to check that one. The celebrations were not pagan but celebrations of the season, in the midst of winter. An evergreen trees was brought into the celebration to signify the heope they had that with the spring, all living things will renew themselves. The rest of the traditions are purely American made because they were developed here in the US. We got very little from the pagans. That would be the fact that the idea of the RCC trying to have "christian" celebrations days to draw in the potnetial pagan converts to christianity.

But you know ALL of this has absolutely nothing to do with why I celebrate. So, I don't worry about it. their motives have nothing to do with mine.

Princess:

Your apology is humbly accepted. Yes you are correct they wanted the calf but Aaron also was at fault by calling it Yahweh. My point about the holiday is that many are sincere but this will not save them. Did you know that holiday really means holy day and do you know why? From the beginning of time after Cain departed from his family everyone had some type of feast days but they went against the Most High's instructions. All nations sacrifice daily and more on their feast days this was a common practice. Where do you think that all these nations got them from but through the original Creator who gave it to Adam. After the dispersion of the mass of people at the tower of Babel they took all the false rituals and customs with them all over the world. Everyone celebrates Christmas it is a worldwide feast day or holy day and that's what many of you don't seem to understand. On Christmas in the past America and Russia would put their differences aside and call each other with wishes on this day. You cannot change what this day is base on and that is pagan practices. Would you want to worship in a building that you know they practice Satan's rituals? Of course you wouldn't so how much more would you asked the Almighty Ones to accept a day that has been known for centuries as a day for worshiping Satan's rituals?
Finally, do you remember when David was bringing the Ark of the Covenant back to Jerusalem? It was brought back on a cart drove by oxen which is not the way Yahweh had instructed it to be carried. They were sincere and David was leaping and dancing for joy but something dreadful happen! A solider by the name of Uzzah was walking beside the Ark and as a good solider he saw the Ark tip over appearing to fall and he tried to rescue it. However, soon as he touched it he was instantly struck down and died. David stop in his track and they went back and study how to bring the Ark correctly. He put Adam and Eve out for making one mistake and there are more stories like this in the Bible. He is just, loving but Yahweh demands strict obedience and loyalty. You heard that there is a way that seem right but this way wasn't and it will lead to your downfall. You can't make something holy or truthful or good if it is created from a lie and evilness. 2Samuel Chapter Six; Pro 14:12; Matt 7:12-14

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri​

 

[Byfaithalone1]

But you know ALL of this has absolutely nothing to do with why I celebrate.

Me neither.

So, I don't worry about it. their motives have nothing to do with mine.

I agree.

BFA

 

[stinsonmarri]

Me neither.

I agree.

BFA

Greetings to you both:

It is not about motive it is about obedience. Saul had good motives but the Holy Spirit left him. I belive that you are sincere and your motives are good but the way to truth is by obeying. You cannot except this day for a celebration of the Savior's birth. I can only plead with you both but it is the Holy Spirit that can convict the soul into truth but only if you let Him. Is this day so important that you cannot give it up for your soul? Just think for one moment the whole world celebrates on this day. Yahweh want a people who will stand against the world and their customs. Yes His path is narrow and straight even Paul said the things I shouldn't do I do. But things I should do he don't do because the flesh is weak. You can say it is for the Savior but how many gifts did you give out to others instead of using that money to help others in need year round? How many parties did you attend and if you had a tree up the Bible said don't do it! Anyway what do a tree have to do with the birth of the Savior? Did you hang up a wreath that represents death because that has nothing do with His birth. How about lights around your house now tell me what does that have to do with His birth?
Oh I know you went to church and listen to cantatas but some of the songs are in error because it was not a cold winters night. Then you say merry Christmas you are honoring the Catholic Church and their mass because that's what it means!! Explain to me what is all the hoolah about doing all this Christmas stuff that day you say is to remember His birth? You do it because everybody in all the Churches everywhere is doing it. Then all those who celebrate their pagan deities are doing it. But finally its your choice and I love you both and I will pray that someday soon you will see all this stuff is vanity.

May you both be bless and have a Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

Actually, I can separate the day we celebrate as Christmas from the one that had it's start in Europe. Whent he Puritans came to this country, they did nto celebrate anything, especially Christimas the way it was Celebrated in England. In fact, for some years before they came there was a king who out lawed Christmas, because they way they celebrated was extremely barbarack(sp), sorry a little sleepy. hehehe!. So whent hey came the next king had reinstituted the celebrations, but not so barbaracka nd violent. The Puritans, however, wre not infavor of this and celebrating Christmas carried some dire consequenced here iinthe new land.

it was later that we we made our own traditions for Christmas, including the poinsettias(sp) from South America. We got the "christmas" tree from winter soltice celebrations of Northern Germany?( I wil have to check that one. The celebrations were not pagan but celebrations of the season, in the midst of winter. An evergreen trees was brought into the celebration to signify the heope they had that with the spring, all living things will renew themselves. The rest of the traditions are purely American made because they were developed here in the US. We got very little from the pagans. That would be the fact that the idea of the RCC trying to have "christian" celebrations days to draw in the potnetial pagan converts to christianity.

But you know ALL of this has absolutely nothing to do with why I celebrate. So, I don't worry about it. their motives have nothing to do with mine.

Princess:

There is a book call American Holidays in the library also you can go on line. Put in American Holidays because all of the things we celebrate in Christmas come from Europe, Eastern pagans religions, and they all originated from Babylon of Nimrod. The Puritans did not celebrate Christmas because of its meaning "Christ mass," which came from the Catholic and they protested against the Catholic Church! All pagan religions had a deity for the winter solstice which was a common practice. Yes the Catholic did allow pagan practices and attempt to change it as the birth of the Savior. They even changed their original date Jan 6th to Dec 25th to please the pagan services and practices of pagan child and mother. What they didn't change were all of the symbols which still represent the pagan baby and mother. They are know as Iu-su/Horus the baby and Isis/ Semerisis/Semiramis (Nimrod's wife) and the baby's mama or madonna!

"Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era itself, a festival was celebrated among the HEATHEN, at that precise time of the year, in honor oft the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that, in order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it only the name of Christ. This tendency on the part of Christians to meet Paganism half-way was very early developed."
Isis, the Egyptian title for the "queen of heaven," gave birth to a son at this very time, about the time of the winter solstice. The term "Yule" is the Chaldee (Babylonian) name for "infant" or "little child."
This pagan festival not only commemorated the figurative birthday of the sun in the renewal of its course, but it also was celebrated (on December 24) among the Sabeans of Arabia, as the birthday of the "Lord Moon."
"In the Hindu mythology, which is admitted to be essentially Babylonian, this comes out very distinctly. There, Surya, or the Sun, is represented as being incarnate, and born for the purpose of subduing the enemies of the gods, who without such a birth, could not have been subdued."
There are many other Christmas counterparts of the Babylonian winter solstice festival, such as: 1) candles lighted on Christmas eve and used throughout the festival season were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honor to him, 2) the Christmas tree was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir. The tree denoted the Pagan Messiah.
"The mother of Adonis, the Sun God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son. If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognized as the ŒMan of the branch.
The Christianization of Pagan holidays began about the fourth century A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine, became (or feigned becoming) a Christian. In order to consolidate his rule, he incorporated the Pagan holidays and festivals into the church ritual - attracting the Pagans, but he gave the holidays and festivals new "Christian" names and identities - thus appeasing the Christians. Over the centuries, this practice has continued until the present time where we find the two systems, Paganism and Christianity, almost indistinguishable.
This is the Adversary's clever deception - Paganism dressed up in Christian clothes! It's still nothing more than Paganism, but the Christian churches have wholeheartedly embraced this deception. Lorraine Day, M.D.

No one should be upset with Afrikan Traditional religions that were also brought over into the New World. Haiti and their practice of Vodun (Voodoo) with Christianity and the Catholic practices. In Cuba or South America who celebrate Santeria during this same time with the birth of the so call Jesus!

In Africa, December 25 was an age-old day of celebration, dating back several millennia- celebrating the birth or if you wish, the re-birth of the Sun that had apparently disappeared at the zero hour of December 22, the winter solstice. The winter solstice marks the lowest point of the Sun, ushering in the longest night and, accordingly, the shortest day of the year.
Right after that, daytime slowly but surely gets longer, until it gets really noticeable on December 25. One could say that the Sun was literally dead on Dec.22 and was re-born or had resurrected on December 25, after 3 days!
Dying and resurrecting after 3 days is a theme that is quite familiar to Christians. But the origin of it all lies once gain in Africa. By the way, “Christ“ is a title meaning the “Anointed One“. The etymological root word “KARAST“ (KRST) came from the process of embalming mummies in Ancient Egypt, which entailed “anointing“ by oil before burial. Osiris was the Christ, thousands of years before the white world practically usurped that designation.
The tradition of celebrating December 25 as the birthday of the African God Ra or Osiris or his Son Horus (Father and Son are One!) was prevalent and so strong at the advent of White Christianity that the Christian Church fathers had to shift THEIR Christmas to the same date of the Africans, ostensibly to eclipse the original..
One should not forget that the Romans had the political and the military might to enforce their agenda on the Africans. As a matter of fact, the Romans had used the African model to celebrate Saturnalia and "Sol Invictus", which were replicas of the Osiris/Horus celebration.
Emperors Constantine and Theodosius had banned the African religion under the penalty of death, destroyed their temples, killed their priests and consigned the African religion to the privacy of their homes!
So, when you see a White Madonna and child (Mary and child Jesus) somewhere, you have to know that the original was Black: Isis and Horus. The name Jesus is not too far away the old Egyptian (read African) original : Iu-su: the ever-becoming son. Mary, Maria, Miriam are all adulterations of the African “Meri“, meaning the “Beloved One“.
The Christmas tree represents the tree in Abydos in Egypt, which enveloped the coffin of Osiris, who had been killed by his evil brother God, SET. That tree bore beautiful fruits, the kind of which no one had seen hitherto. So, when you decorate your Christmas tree, you are actually re-enacting that African legend. SET is the root of later religious derivatives like Satan, Sheitan......Osiris Nigerian Village

We may not like the way this black Afrikan is stating it but he is telling the truth because of the first writers above. Finally it is all in the name and the great big cover up. Who do think Nimrod was and the city that Yahweh had to come down and destroy? Nimrod was Cush a black man. I am sorry that he was of my ethnic background but why lie about it. Sumer was the left over his once worldwide power. He was and is until the beast the only emperor of the world. Read Gen 10 and 11. You are correct when you say you are worshiping "Christ," but is not the Savior from on high. If I were you as you search out the roots of Christmas in America found how you got the title you used. Yes it means to anoint but for the dead bodies or mummies of Egypt. Messiah has a unique meaning-anointing a prophet, king, and priest and Yashua fit all three anointing but the title "Christ" does not. Read Hebrew 4:12, 13 about your motives and who you give your allegiance to as for me I will study learn the facts about what, where, why I believe. Because I am on a journey and I will not allow man made traditions, doctrines to take me away from my prize, my soul is just that important!

Happy Sabbath to all,
stinsonmarri