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EastCoastRemnant

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What is the opinion of the upcoming holiday season?

Holy or evil? Why?

I will reserve the results of my study on the subject till after some other ADVENTISTS weigh in.

Suffice it to say that this issue was one that caused me to stop attending our local SDA church.
 
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OntheDL

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What is the opinion of the upcoming holiday season?

Holy or evil? Why?

I will reserve the results of my study on the subject till after some other ADVENTISTS weigh in.

Suffice it to say that this issue was one that caused me to stop attending our local SDA church.

Here is what I think.

Many of the SDAs know (I don't know the percentage) Christmas is not the birthday of Christ. Some know it has a pagan root (winter solstice).

Our family does not celebrate it as a religious holiday. For some years we had nothing at all for it. But now we have two young children. So it's hard to plot it out completely. We have some gifts for the children and their friends. So we treat it like Thanksgiving, but avoid Santa and the commercial part of it.

Ellen White gave a balanced view on it. She linked all the commercialism and the celebration to idolatry while in the meantime suggested it's a good time to give children gifts to learn about Jesus. She also wrote that it's not a sin to have a Christmas tree at home.

So it's an sensitive issue to deal with if you have children at home. But I'm totally against having Christmas tree and Christmas service/celebration at the church.
 
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OntheDL

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Suffice it to say that this issue was one that caused me to stop attending our local SDA church.

With regard to this statement...

I understand there are many issues in our churches and spiritual conditions of our church is rapidly regressing. I have long thought about it and have had many frustrations.

I don't know what you believe since you are new here (welcome to the SDA forum!). But if you believe you have the truth, you need to stay in your local church as long as possible (I'm staying until they throw me out). Our job is to witness to them. Our presence is a reproof to them. If all the light is removed, our churches will be in total darkness and it leaves all the new comers/truthseekers to those who are in darkness.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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But if you believe you have the truth, you need to stay in your local church as long as possible.

I must admit that I was once very drawn to this idea. There was a time when I thought I might contribute to positive change within SDAism. However, for a number of reasons, I ultimately concluded that this was not God's calling for me. These are very personal decisions.

BFA
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I also agree that staying in as a witness and a light is the best course...

However, my wife and I were very new Adventists (about a year in) and had just been baptized. (I was baptized as a boy through the Baptist faith but slid far away from God)

The apostasy that we were seeing wasn't condusive to our growth as babes in the faith so I made the decision to take us out of it. We met with a group online that has been a real blessing to us and our growth and has caused me to do my own research and study as opposed to the traditional go and listen to the preacher once a week.

I have been convicted that there is a need to reach out to fellow adventists to bring them back to a right understanding of the pioneer message, the charts of 1843 and 1850, including the 2520 and the vital importance of understanding the millerite time period of 1840-1844 as sister White has said that the events associated with this time period will be repeated to the very letter in the end times.
 
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OntheDL

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I also agree that staying in as a witness and a light is the best course...

However, my wife and I were very new Adventists (about a year in) and had just been baptized. (I was baptized as a boy through the Baptist faith but slid far away from God)

The apostasy that we were seeing wasn't condusive to our growth as babes in the faith so I made the decision to take us out of it. We met with a group online that has been a real blessing to us and our growth and has caused me to do my own research and study as opposed to the traditional go and listen to the preacher once a week.

Which online group is it?

I have been convicted that there is a need to reach out to fellow adventists to bring them back to a right understanding of the pioneer message, the charts of 1843 and 1850, including the 2520 and the vital importance of understanding the millerite time period of 1840-1844 as sister White has said that the events associated with this time period will be repeated to the very letter in the end times.

I agree with everything you said here. We who like to call ourselves remnant have lost focus of the message of the series of prophetic events that ended at 1844. We no longer believe in what the pioneers believed in.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Which online group is it?

It just a small group of like minded brethren that have a private chat room and gather to fellowship. Unfortunately, our group has been slowly whittled down, to at the present, we only have three full time members. The reality of an online group and how easy it is to drop out along with some getting drawn into false teachings within other online groups had taken it's toll. We are so grateful to the Lord, though, that what we lack in number we more than make up for in faith and dedication to the message. We meet every single day of the week and either do a reading from Maranatha or group read a SOP book. We are currently about half way through Patriarchs and Prophets and have read not only from sister White but also Waggnor and Uriah Smith. We have all just ordered the Prayer90X book and journal by Ivor Myers and will be starting that early in the new year.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Here is what I think.

Many of the SDAs know (I don't know the percentage) Christmas is not the birthday of Christ. Some know it has a pagan root (winter solstice).

Our family does not celebrate it as a religious holiday. For some years we had nothing at all for it. But now we have two young children. So it's hard to plot it out completely. We have some gifts for the children and their friends. So we treat it like Thanksgiving, but avoid Santa and the commercial part of it.

Ellen White gave a balanced view on it. She linked all the commercialism and the celebration to idolatry while in the meantime suggested it's a good time to give children gifts to learn about Jesus. She also wrote that it's not a sin to have a Christmas tree at home.

So it's an sensitive issue to deal with if you have children at home. But I'm totally against having Christmas tree and Christmas service/celebration at the church.

Actually, she wrote that it was ok to have it in the church as well. Sister White encouraged the practice of putting up a tree, even at the church, to be used to gather donations by pinning them onto the branches.

"Shall We Have a Christmas Tree?"--God would be well pleased if on Christmas each church would have a Christmas tree on which shall be hung offerings, great and small, for these houses of worship. Letters of inquiry have come to us asking, Shall we have a Christmas tree? Will it not be like the world? We answer, You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible. There is no particular sin in selecting a fragrant evergreen and placing it in our churches, but the sin lies in the motive which prompts to action and the use which is made of the gifts placed upon the tree. {AH 482.1}
The tree may be as tall and its branches as wide as shall best suit the occasion; but let its boughs be laden with the golden and silver fruit of your beneficence, and present this to Him as your Christmas gift. Let your donations be sanctified by prayer.

While I do believe that Ellen White fulfilled all the requirements of being a true prophet and that her writings were divinely directed, I do not believe that she was given all the light the church would receive. The above quoted passage from Adventist Home shows that she was not given light in at least two areas having to do with this time of year, one being the egregious use of the term 'christmas' and the satanic meaning of the word.

THE MEANING OF CHRIST-MASS

MEANS SACRIFICING CHRIST

NOT ABOUT HIS BIRTH

They tell us that it is the season to be jolly. It is a time of ornaments, red and green decorations, silver bells, holly, mistletoe and colored lights. It is also a time of department store Santa’s calling out their universal mantra, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas." Nearly all of the realm of "Christianity" join in and repeat this same greeting, "Merry Christmas!"
Although we hear these words constantly as they resonate millions of times throughout the land, almost nobody understands what they are really saying. It is the purpose of this tract to take the words, "Merry Christmas" and examine the true meaning and essence of those words.
A true Christian would want to examine everything they say, because Jesus said in Matthew 12:36-37, "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." We will now set aside all of the customs, glitter and traditions of Christmas, which were taken from pagan witchcraft and popularized by the Roman Catholic Church, and we will focus on the true meaning of the words, "Merry Christmas!"
The word "Merry" is simple to define. It unquestionably means to be happy, joyful and light-hearted. The word "merry" fits into the ambience of laughter and frivolity. This word "merry" by itself is innocent and innocuous enough, but as we will now see, it becomes heinously blasphemous when used with the word "Christmas."
Here let it be noted that most people think that the word, "Christmas" means "the birth of Christ." By definition, it means "death of Christ", and I will prove it by using the World Book Encyclopedia, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and a book entitled, The Mass In Slow Motion.
If you are an honest, sincere and discerning Christian, please read on; if not, you might as well stop right here.
The World Book Encyclopedia defines "Christmas" as follows: "The word Christmas comes from "Cristes Maesse", an early English phrase that means "Mass of Christ." (1) It is interesting to note that the word "Mass", as used by the Roman Catholics, has traditionally been rejected by the so-called Protestants, such as Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and Pentecostals and so on. The word "Mass" is strictly a Catholic word and thus, so is "Christ-Mass."
It would stand to reason, that since all of these denominations love and embrace "Christ-Mass", that December 25th is the great homecoming day, when all of the Protestants become Catholic for a day. It would seem that all of the so-called "wayward daughters" of the Romish church return to their mother, the scarlet harlot. Thus, all of the so-called Protestant churches could sing to the Pope that popular song "I'll be home for Christmas."
As previously stated, the word "Mass" in religious usage means a "death sacrifice." The impact of this fact is horrifying and shocking; for when the millions of people are saying, "Merry Christmas", they are literally saying "Merry death of Christ!"
Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking and laughing at the suffering and bleeding Saviour, who died for our sins. He does this while parents place their little children into his waiting arms to hear his false promises of gifts that he says he will give them. Consider what you are saying when you say "Merry Christmas."
What is so amusing about our Saviour's painful death? What is so funny? Why is Santa laughing? Why are you going along with it? Your words do count and Satan knows it. Yes, the word "Mass" does mean "death sacrifice", and to cement that fact, we will consider the definition of the inventors of the religious application of the word "Mass." I am looking at page 537 of the Catholic Encyclopedia, which says, "In the Christian law, the supreme sacrifice is that of the Mass." It goes on to say, "The supreme act of worship consists essentially in an offering of a worthy victim to God, the offering made by a proper person, as a priest, the destruction of the victim." (2)
Please note carefully the word, "victim" of the Mass. The Latin word for victim is "Hostia" from which the word "host" is derived. The Mass, by definition of those who coined the word, is a sacrifice involving a victim. There is no other meaning for the word "Mass" or "Christ-Mass." On page 110 of a book entitled "The Mass In Slow Motion", we find the following words: "It is only with the consecration that the sacrifice of the Mass is achieved. I have represented the Mass to you, more than once, as a kind of ritual dance." (3)
In essence, the Mass is the ceremonial slaying of Jesus Christ over and over again, followed by the eating of his flesh and the drinking of his blood. The Mass is the death sacrifice, and the "Host" is the victim. This is official Roman Catholic doctrine, and "Christmas" is a word that they invented. Again, I ask, what is so merry about the pain, bleeding, suffering and death of Jesus Christ? Satan has done quite a job of getting millions of "Christians" to blaspheme. What a deceiver he is.
Now you know the true meaning of the word "Christmas" or Mass of Christ. There is much more to know about this pagan holiday, evidence that Jesus was not born on December 25th, and that Christmas is not only a lie, but is actually a witches' sabbat called "Yule" in clever disguise. We urge you to be like the Bereans and search this most important truth out for yourselves.
Mark 7: 7-9, 13
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Acknowledgements:
01. World Book Encyclopedia, vol.3, p. 408, 1986 ed., World Book Inc., Chicago, IL
02. The Catholic Encyclopedia, R.C. Broderick, 1975 ed., Nihil Obstat, Richard J. Sklba, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, Archbishop William E. Cousins, Milwaukee, WI.
03. The Mass In Slow Motion, Ronald Knox, 1948, Sheed & Ward, Inc., New York, NY. Nihil Obstat, E.C. Messenger, Censor Deputatus. Imprimatur, E. Morrogh Bernard, Vic. Gen.


Also, the decorating of the tree is in direct contradiction to this passage in Jeremiah

Jeremiah 10:2-4


Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Sabbath blessings! :)
 
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honorthesabbath

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HI ECR--welcome to this forum. I don't post here hardly at all anymore, but for some reason got the urge to look in and I saw your OP.

Let me say that there are many of us SDA's see the keeping of the xmas and the easter as purely pagan feasts that Christians have no business acknowledging. Also I find it especially reprehensible that SDA's, with all our knowledge of how paganism has slipped into Christianity can defend their observances.

Here is a video that many might find interesting. While I do not agree with this man's eschatology, I find his history of xmas revealing.

YouTube - Christmas = FAIL

 
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zeker33:9

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What is the opinion of the upcoming holiday season?

Holy or evil? Why?

I will reserve the results of my study on the subject till after some other ADVENTISTS weigh in.

Suffice it to say that this issue was one that caused me to stop attending our local SDA church.
So what "day" was Jesus born? I think it would behoove you to show what day Jesus was born to prove your case that it's not His birthday. That's the reason for the season, not some guy dressed in a Santa suit. It is about the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. What's wrong with celebrating His birthday?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Well, for starters, only heathens in Jesus' day celebrated their birthdays (Herod for one). It is never recorded as a celebration for any of God's people. Also the fact that we are never commanded to do so, unlike communion service.

Proving that Jesus was not born in December is actually quite easy. The Bible gives us enough clues so that we need not be ashamed.

The story of Christs birth tells of certain sheperds tending their flocks in the hills surrounding Bethlehem. It is a historical fact that the herds of sheep and goats were only pastured during the dry season from spring til around the middle of October when the rainy seasons starts in the Holy Land. So, the fact the sheperds were in the fields during Christs birth, means he could not have been born in December. I can provide reference for you of the herding practices in the middle east if you want or you can do a little investigative work of your own.

Then there is the historical record that show how pagan tradition was painted with Christian sanctity around the time of Constantine. Many unGodly celebrations were 'Christianized' to make it more palatable for the pagans to join the Roman church. Easter is another one but I'll leave that for another time :)

Another interesting fact concerning December 25th is that it is the birth day of Tammuz from Nimrods time, Thor from Nordic mythology and is also a witches sabbath called yule among other pagen celebrations. If you look at the character of Thor, in particular, and compare his personage with that of Santa Claus, you will find many similarities.

I have an excellent study on the significance of anagrams to satanists and how Santa is an anagram for Satan. When you consider that Satan said that he would exalt himself above God in the congregation of the north (santa, thor) and that his sole purpose is to counterfeit all that God is, you begin to see the true meaning of this time of year. There is much Biblical reference to the similarities between santa and the attributes of God, some of them being: hair white as wool, says ho, ho, knows everything(knows who's been naughty and nice), is everywhere at once and rides upon a white horse (this was what santa traditionally rode upon up until the 19th century). The most grevious part of this is how satan influences the children through this seemingly fat, jolly,benevolent abomination. He promises them their hearts desires and has every childs devotion and worship. Our children are being given into satans hands and to top things off, parents are bearing false witness to do so and teaching their children their first lie. How difficult is it for a child to come to a true understanding and love of God, later on, when this deception is still fresh in their minds!

You say that Jesus is the reason for the season... great platitude, but who has really thought this through... If you read my above study on the very word christmas and what it signifies then you must realize how this holiday demeans our dear Saviour. Is He portrayed as a risen redeemer? No, he is presented as a helpless baby, perpetually. Not what we are called to remember Jesus as and to proclaim Him as...

Anyway, I could go on, but I figure you either get my drift or will stay caught up in tradition and be unwilling to change so that you will see no light in this.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Turn about is fair play... where is your scripture to back up your celebration on Dec 25th? Without scriptural authorization aren't you just following the traditions of man?

The reasons I cited (which are historically proveable) are enough for me to know it is not God ordained.
 
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zeker33:9

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Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:22-24)

Where's yours?
 
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zeker33:9

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What is interesting is, that Jesus' genealogy is documented in the Bible, and the nature of His birth both having been foretold and the fact it would be a virgin birth, the account of the angel coming to Mary and then to Joseph. All of this was important enough to document in the Gospels, the exact day however was not important. Truth is, we don't have to have a specific day in order to celebrate His coming into the world. Without His life, death, and resurrection, we would have no hope. It's too bad that you can only do what you are commanded to do.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:22-24)

Where's yours?

I see in this quote where the true worshippers shall worship the Father.... don't see alot of reference to celebrating a pagan holiday wrapped in the Christian flag.
 
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zeker33:9

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Long ago, about 2000 years, when King Herod ruled Judea (now part of Israel), God sent the angel Gabriel to a young women who lived in the northern town of Nazareth. The girl's name was Mary and she was engaged to marry Joseph.

The angel Gabriel said to Mary: 'Peace be with you! God has blessed you and is pleased with you.' Mary was very surprised by this and wondered what the angel meant. The angel said to her 'Don't be afraid, God has been very kind to you. You will become pregnant by the Holy Spirit and give birth to a baby boy and you will call him Jesus. He will be God's own Son and his kingdom will never end.' Mary was very afraid but she trusted God. 'Let it happen as God chooses.' She replied to the angel. Gabriel also told Mary that her cousin, Elizabeth who everyone thought was too old to have children, would have a baby boy whom God had chosen to prepare the way for Jesus.

Mary said goodbye to her family and friends and went to visit her cousin Elizabeth and her husband Zechariah. Elizabeth was very happy to see Mary. She knew that Mary had been chosen by God to be the mother of his Son. An angel had already told Zechariah that Elizabeth's baby would prepare people to welcome Jesus. He was to be called John. Mary stayed with Elizabeth about three months and then returned home to Nazareth.

Joseph was worried when he found out that Mary was expecting a baby before their marriage had taken place. He wondered if he should put off the wedding altogether. Then an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and said: 'Don't be afraid to have Mary as your wife.' The angel explained that Mary had been chosen by God to be the mother of his Son and told Joseph that the baby would be named Jesus which means 'Saviour' because he would save people. When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel had told him to do and took Mary as his wife.

At this time, the land where Mary and Joseph lived was part of the Roman Empire. The Roman Emperor Augustus wanted to have a list of all the people in the empire, to make sure they paid their taxes. He ordered everyone to return to the town where their families originally came from, and enter their names in a register (or census) there. Mary and Joseph travelled a long way (about 70 miles) from Nazareth to Bethlehem, because that is where Joseph's family came from. Most people walked but some lucky people had a donkey to help carry the goods needed for the journey. Joseph and Mary travelled very slowly because Mary's baby was due to be born soon.

When they reached Bethlehem they had problems finding somewhere to stay. So many people had come to register their names in the census, that every house was full and every bed was taken in all of the Inns. The only shelter that they could was a stable or cave with the animals. In this poor place Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Son of God. In those days it was the custom to wrap newborn babies tightly in a long cloth called 'swaddling clothes'. Jesus' bed was the manger that the animals ate their hay from.

In the hills and fields outside Bethlehem, shepherds looked after their sheep through the long night. As the new day began, suddenly an angel appeared before them and the glory of God shone around them. The shepherds were very, very scared, but the angel said, 'Don't be afraid. I have good news for you and everyone. Today in Bethlehem a Saviour has been born for you. You will find the baby lying in a manger.'.

Then many more angels appeared, lighting up the sky. The shepherds heard them praising God singing: 'Glory to God in highest, and peace to everyone on earth.' When the angels had gone the shepherds said to one another, 'Let's go to Bethlehem to see what has happened.' So the shepherds went to Bethlehem and found Mary and Joseph. The baby Jesus was lying in a manger as they had been told. When they saw him, they told everyone what the angel had said and everyone who heard the story were astonished. Then the shepherds returned to their sheep, praising God for sending his Son to be their Saviour.

When Jesus was born, a brand new bright star appeared in sky. Some Wise Men in faraway countries saw the star and guessed what it meant. They were very clever men that studied the stars and had read in very old writings that a new star would appear when a great king was born. They set out to find the new king and bring him gifts.

The Wise Men followed the star towards the country of Judea and when they got to the capital called Jerusalem they began to ask people: 'Where is the child who is born to be king of the Jews?' Herod, the king of Judea, heard this and it made him very angry to think that someone might be going to take his place as king. Herod sent for the Wise Men to come to him. He told them to go on following the star until they had found the baby king. He said: 'When you have found him, let me know where he is, so that I can go and worship him.'. But Herod did not tell them that he really had an evil plan in mind to kill the new king.

The Wise Men followed the star towards Bethlehem (where it said that the king would be born in the old writings). It seemed to stop and shine directly down upon the place where Jesus was.

The Wise Men entered the house where they now lived and found Jesus with Mary, they bowed down and worshipped him. The Wise Men spread the the gifts they had brought before Jesus. The gifts were gold, frankincense and myrrh. The Wise Men were warned in a dream, by God, not to go back to Herod. So they returned home to their countries in the East by a different way.

When the Wise Men had gone, an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream. 'Get up,' the angel said, 'take Jesus and Mary and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for Jesus to kill him.' So Joseph got up, took Jesus and Mary during the night they left for Egypt, where he stayed until Herod died.

When Herod realized that he had been tricked by the Wise Men, he was furious and he gave orders to kill all the boys aged two or younger in Bethlehem and the surrounding area. This was to try and kill the new King, as his plan to find the location of the new king from the Wise Men had failed.

After Herod had died, Joseph had another dream in which an angel appeared to him. The angel said, 'Get up, take Jesus and Mary and go back to Israel, for those who were trying kill Jesus are dead.'

So Joseph got up, took Jesus and Mary and they went back to Israel. But when he heard that Herod's son was now king of Judea, he was afraid to go there. So instead they went to Galilee, and lived in their old town of Nazareth.


And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
(Luke 2:13-14)

Even the angels rejoiced (celebrated) His birth.

When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. (Matthew 2:10-11)

The Magi came from far away bearing gifts.

Sounds like a party to me.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You do understand that the maji were not present at the manger, right? The reason Harod ordered all males under the age of two to be killed was because by this point, Jesus was somewhere between 1-2 yeears of age. Remember, that Harod had met with the maji on there way to Nazareth and so, would have been able to ascertain the approx age of Jesus. When the star appeared at Christs birth, the journey for the men of the east would have been long and they would have had to navigate through and around hostile lands to get there... not something that would have taken days but months.

The gifts that they came bearing were providential in nature... to enable Joseph and Mary to have the means to take Jesus into Egypt until the danger was passed.

Sorry, hadn't read all the above recounting of the advent and realized that you had already stated some of what I did....
 
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