Holding leaders to a higher standard

[Joykins]

...a bit of a spin-off from the Haggard (Ted, not Merle) threads.

1. Should we hold Christian leaders to higher standards than we hold ourselves? Do we?

2. What is the proper response to a Christian leader who falls into notorious sin? Should such a person ever be restored to the ministry?

3. Does the proper response depend in part on whether the sin involved an abuse of authority?

I once served under a missionary who was later convicted and served time for sexually abusing children that he was in authority over. Not long ago I discovered that his denomination had restored his credentials about 10 years after the fact. I was suprised at how absolutely offended I was that he was allowed back into the ministry after that.

 

[127Rockledge]

...a bit of a spin-off from the Haggard (Ted, not Merle) threads.

1. Should we hold Christian leaders to higher standards than we hold ourselves? Do we?

A higher standard, yes. Higher than ourselves? Not nessecarily. Maybe we as Christians should be holding our whole faith at a higher standard.

But more or less, they are leaders, correct? How can they lead us out of sin when they are steeped in it?

2. What is the proper response to a Christian leader who falls into notorious sin? Should such a person ever be restored to the ministry?

We are all sinners. I believe the proper response for a church would be to remove that person from ministry until the person and the congregation feel they are restored.

3. Does the proper response depend in part on whether the sin involved an abuse of authority?

Absolutely. If a police officer should abuse his authority for personal gains, his certification is revoked by the state. And he can never be a law enforcement officer again in said state. I believe the church should have a similar standard, while accounting for repentance.

 

[catlover]

...a bit of a spin-off from the Haggard (Ted, not Merle) threads.

1. Should we hold Christian leaders to higher standards than we hold ourselves? Do we?

2. What is the proper response to a Christian leader who falls into notorious sin? Should such a person ever be restored to the ministry?

3. Does the proper response depend in part on whether the sin involved an abuse of authority?

I once served under a missionary who was later convicted and served time for sexually abusing children that he was in authority over. Not long ago I discovered that his denomination had restored his credentials about 10 years after the fact. I was suprised at how absolutely offended I was that he was allowed back into the ministry after that.

In my opinion, anyone who violates a child should NEVER be restored to a position of authority.


As for Ted Haggard, there is really nothing I can add to that situation, it speaks for itself.

 

[JimfromOhio]

A spiritual leader ought to be humble, self-effacing, self-sacrificing, modest, clean living, free from the love of money, eager to promote the honor of God and just as eager to disclaim any credit or praise on self-promotion. Financial accounts will be freely open for inspection, ethical standards will be high and personal life is above reproach. A spiritual leader will not be perfect nor sinless but still the leader to be trusted is the one who lives as near like Christ as possible.

When I am looking at spiritual leaders, there are 4 tests for the leader's spiritual genuineness:

First, the leader must be a good spiritual and sound leader with no tricks of theology, no demonstrations of supernatural wonders, no evidences of blind devotion on the part of the public. Watch for their "movement" and their motives. No matter how sincere they may be, spiritual leaders without discernment are sure to err and their conclusions are inevitably false because their reasoning is misleading. As far as the reasoning mind can go, they may say that it is what God is that is not described in the Bible. Just be aware.

Second, every spiritual leader must be pure of heart and holy of life. This leader will not be perfect nor sinless but still the leader to be trusted is the one who lives as near like Christ as possible.

Third, a spiritual leader ought to be humble, self-effacing, self-sacrificing, modest, clean living, free from the love of money, eager to promote the honor of God and just as eager to disclaim any credit or praise on self-promotion. Financial accounts will be freely open for inspection, ethical standards will be high and personal life is above reproach.

Finally, as a Christian, I need to make sure that my spiritual leader have the right conception of God that is basic not only to systematic theology but to practical Christian living as well.

There are many false Christian movements out there that think they have the right image of God and when they approach that image, they feel a sense of awe that will confuse people. We are living in the times of confusion and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the false from the true. God have provided us the Word of God to save us from the consequences of our own blindness by repeated warnings and many careful instructions.

All pastors/spiritual leaders are accountable to their Church's ELDERS.

I have been thinking and trying to look back how churches remove their pastors. I want to look at from the Bible's point of view how to handle this. I personally never dealt with any local church that officially removes a pastor so this will be my first experience.

"Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear. I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality" (1 Timothy 5:19-21, NKJV).

When a local church lose their respect for their pastor, it is a sure sign that this pastor has outlived his usefulness to that congregation. It is important for us to relize that the pastor-church relationship is very sensitive and vitally important issue. For 3 years, Jesus taught His Disciples who became Apostles after His death. What kind of education did Jesus gave them? Reading all of the New Testament, I have come to conclusion that Jesus taught them Spiritual matters. The only Apostle that didn't follow Jesus was Paul however, Paul did have extensive education background regarding Jewish Laws that were very useful for God to use Paul when He wrote the letters of the New Testament. I believe the hardest part as a Christian is being like-Christ and try to live in a "blameless" life. We do not expect our pastors to be the only ones who are acting like-Christ and live in a blameless life. ALL members of the Church must live in a blameless life, be the shining light to the lost and bring them to Christ.

The pastor should be known as a man of Christian character and conduct and there should be demonstrable evidence of his mature, Christian character. God is obviously concerned with the character of the men put in the office of pastor.

Pastor/Elder qualifications: Titus 1:6-9
".....must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless-not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

The only authority any pastor or elder has is the Word of God. When you step beyond the Word of God, you’ve overstepped the bounds of your authority. God reveals Himself primarily through the pages of Scripture; that is why I believe the Bible as my absolute authority. 1 Peter 4:11 instructs me to handle biblical truth: "If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God." If the Bible is true, then it is also authoritative. As divinely revealed truth, it carries the full weight of God's own authority. A church must understand that Christ is the head of the church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15) and that He mediates His rule in the church through godly elders (1 Thess. 5:13-14; Heb. 13:7, 17).

Removing a pastor should be followed by the following verses in 1 Timothy 5 (NIV): 17The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning. 21I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

Love hopes all things and those who love their pastor should be very slow to believe a bad report about him. "And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake." In other words, because of the job that pastors are called to do, and the office they are fulfilling, the congregation is to esteem them "very highly in love." (1 Thessalonians 5:12). Paul wrote very precisely, "Do not receive an accusation against an elder, except from two or three witnesses" (1 Timothy 5:19). Just make sure the evidences are backed up before removing a pastor.

 

[ReformedChapin]

...a bit of a spin-off from the Haggard (Ted, not Merle) threads.

1. Should we hold Christian leaders to higher standards than we hold ourselves? Do we?

No, we are all bound to biblical principles, whethere in leadership position or not.

2. What is the proper response to a Christian leader who falls into notorious sin? Should such a person ever be restored to the ministry?

Depends on the sin, since sexual abuse is the usual topic of discussion I will say that any sin of that nature (involving abuse, not cheating) should apply immediate removable and indefinite loss of ministerial position.

3. Does the proper response depend in part on whether the sin involved an abuse of authority?

More in the sin as I explained above, although abuse of authory can be rather serious.

 

[jengoesup]

Of course we should our leaders to higher standards. 1 Timothy 3 clearly says so:

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying: If a man is eager to be a church leader, he desires an excellent work.
1Ti 3:2 A church leader must be without fault; he must have only one wife, be sober, self-controlled, and orderly; he must welcome strangers in his home; he must be able to teach;
1Ti 3:3 he must not be a drunkard or a violent man, but gentle and peaceful; he must not love money;
1Ti 3:4 he must be able to manage his own family well and make his children obey him with all respect.
1Ti 3:5 For if a man does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of the church of God?
1Ti 3:6 He must be mature in the faith, so that he will not swell up with pride and be condemned, as the Devil was.
1Ti 3:7 He should be a man who is respected by the people outside the church, so that he will not be disgraced and fall into the Devil's trap.
1Ti 3:8 Church helpers must also have a good character and be sincere; they must not drink too much wine or be greedy for money;
1Ti 3:9 they should hold to the revealed truth of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 They should be tested first, and then, if they pass the test, they are to serve.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives also must be of good character and must not gossip; they must be sober and honest in everything.
1Ti 3:12 A church helper must have only one wife, and be able to manage his children and family well.
1Ti 3:13 Those helpers who do their work well win for themselves a good standing and are able to speak boldly about their faith in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 3:14 As I write this letter to you, I hope to come and see you soon.
1Ti 3:15 But if I delay, this letter will let you know how we should conduct ourselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
1Ti 3:16 No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.

Ok, I got tired of bolding, but wow, look at all those musts, eh? I understand what people may say about "everyone is a sinner, and no one can be perfect, so how can we hold anyone including our leaders to a higher standard when they are just as much a sinner as we are?" But here, the Bible clearly says we must have leaders who are above the ordinary. I believe 1 Timothy 3:5 really sums up the entire reason we must hold our leaders to a higher standard:

1Ti 3:5 For if a man does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of the church of God?

Really, there is no better way to say it. I will end there.

 

[Natman]

As conregants or lay-people, I do not know if WE should hold our leaders and teacher to a higher standard, however, I do believe that our leaders and teachers should hold themselves to a higher standard.

Matthew 23 speaks over and over again what can be expected when leaders (Pharisees) and teachers (of the Law) act in contempt or hypocritically.

Romans 2:17-24 speaks of teachers..

Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

 

[lilymarie]

...a bit of a spin-off from the Haggard (Ted, not Merle) threads.

1. Should we hold Christian leaders to higher standards than we hold ourselves? Do we?

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My answer to question 1.

No, not necessarily. To me, any Christian leader is still just a "man". I go to church to worship The Lord. I have never put any pastor or minister upon a pedestal, and I would say all pastors/leaders are not perfect. Even the scipture which regards leaders, well there have been many involved in heavy drink of alcohol all throughout history. Not all denominations, but many. So, whatever has happened is nothing new under the sun.

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2. What is the proper response to a Christian leader who falls into notorious sin? Should such a person ever be restored to the ministry?[/quote]

My answer to Question 2.


I would say if it involved a child or rape or a serious legal crime, absolutely they should not be restored. Whatever else, I'd let the church leadership decide upon. And, I might considering finding another church and just pray for the pastor and let it go into the hands of God, as well as that churches' leadership.

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3. Does the proper response depend in part on whether the sin involved an abuse of authority [/quote]

My answer to Question 3.

To me it would affect it greatly, yes.

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I once served under a missionary who was later convicted and served time for sexually abusing children that he was in authority over. Not long ago I discovered that his denomination had restored his credentials about 10 years after the fact. I was suprised at how absolutely offended I was that he was allowed back into the ministry after that.[/quote]

My response to Joykins comment as my quote feature isn't working:

The above is a very real scary thing. However, there are wolves in sheeps clothing. Don't leave your children alone too long ever, not even in church. My best friend's children were molested at a so called catholic school and she nearly had a complete nervous breakdown. Her words were "I trusted these people."

It was a gut wrenching experience to go through, even as just her best friend. She pretty much collapsed in her soul for quite awhile. She moved to Canada and I haven't spoken with her much lately. She just wanted to get as far away from everything as possible. But, sexual abuse does happen and is very real. We can't pretend it away.

But back to Ted H (I'm still not sure of his name) he hasn't been found guilty of anything yet, except an admitted drug purchase?

Yet, this must be so hard on his family. What a terrible torture they must be going through.