Hocus Pocus ????

[TraderJack]

Jesus is the Redeemer, and yes, we are all co-redeemers.

In context, when Mary is referred to as co-redemptrix, it does not mean that Jesus is co-redeemer, as many immediately try to re-define it to meaning.

Well then, we need a dogmatic papal declaration that names each and every one of us, by name, as Co-Redeemers.

 

[TraderJack]

I recently visited the Catacombs, just outside of Rome. It was an amazing experience. I felt a strong connection with the First Christians who left a written record on the walls of the Catacombs as a testimony of their beliefs. I came upon a wall of hundreds of inscriptions asking the martyred Peter and Paul to pray for them.

Now that's a fine way to do dogma.

Find some scribling on a wall and proclaim it dogma.

 

[lionroar0]

Now that's a fine way to do dogma.

Find some scribling on a wall and proclaim it dogma.

Better to read what the 1st Christians belived and finding out that the CC still teaches the samething back then as now, then having Calvin throw out the baby out with the bath water and have people beliving something else entirely and contrary to what the 1st Christians belived.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/prayer.iii.xxi.html

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

If that truly were the place, then no one would be lifted up to any higher position than another, as Mary is.
No doubt Mary, as humble as she was, weeps to know how she has been practically deified by so many, and raised to a level equal to Christ.

I don't know of any Christian church that has done this.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Mary is dead and does not and cannot contribute anything to our redemption.

She gave birth to Christ who is our redemption and every time someone enters into heaven she contributed to it.

No birth of Christ no redemption.

Peace

 

[WarEagle]

She gave birth to Christ who is our redemption and every time someone enters into heaven she contributed to it.

No birth of Christ no redemption.

Peace

Even in that case, Mary’s contribution ended at childbirth.

Mary did not go to the cross for the sins of mankind.

Mary is not able to bring about reconciliation and forgiveness with God on our behalf in any way.

And, like Generalissimo Francisco Franco, she is still dead.

 

[tadoflamb]

Those who die in Christ are not dead. Especially those who followed Him to the foot of the cross.

 

[WarEagle]

Those who die in Christ are not dead. Especially those who followed Him to the foot of the cross.

Well, the Bible says that Eutychus was dead. It tells us that there will be a resurrection of the dead. It says that Christ is the Lord of the dead.

So it certainly looks like people do die.

 

[lionroar0]

Even in that case, Mary’s contribution ended at childbirth.

Mary did not go to the cross for the sins of mankind.

Mary is not able to bring about reconciliation and forgiveness with God on our behalf in any way.

And, like Generalissimo Francisco Franco, she is still dead.

No claims that Mary died for our sins.

She does not bring reconciliation and forgiveness to God on our behalf. Christ does. She did contribute and still contributing on our behalf to Jesus, because she gave birth to Him. Her saying yes an giving birth to Jesus made her mother to the Church and to all christians.

She is very much alive in heaven with all of the Saints.

Peace

 

[WarEagle]

Christ does not.

What??? Jesus didn't bring about forgiveness and reconciliation to God on our behalf???

Wow! Roman Catholicism must be in worse shape than I thought.

So, how does Roman Catholicism teach that we are to attain forgiveness and reconciliation if not through Christ's atonement?

She did contribute and still contributing on our behalf to Jesus

She isn't contributing anything. She's dead. Where does the Bible say that she contributes anything to our salvation?

Her saying yes an giving birth to Jesus made her mother to the Church and to all christians.

The Bible never indicates that Mary is the mother of the church and it certainly doesn't indicate that she is our mother.

She died two thousand years before most of us were even born.

She is very much alive in heaven with all of the Saints.

She may be alive in Heaven, but she's still dead on Earth.

 

[narnia59]

Well, the Bible says that Eutychus was dead. It tells us that there will be a resurrection of the dead. It says that Christ is the Lord of the dead.

So it certainly looks like people do die.

"But about the resurrection of the dead--have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.'"

 

[WarEagle]

"But about the resurrection of the dead--have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.'"

So then, who are the dead in Christ? Why does the Bible say that Jesus is Lord of the dead?

And most importantly, why did you take that verse out of context and choose not to post the previous verse, which tells us that He is speaking specifically of saints after the resurrection?

 

[lionroar0]

What??? Jesus didn't bring about forgiveness and reconciliation to God on our behalf???

Wow! Roman Catholicism must be in worse shape than I thought.

So, how does Roman Catholicism teach that we are to attain forgiveness and reconciliation if not through Christ's atonement?

It was a typo

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

So then, who are the dead in Christ? Why does the Bible say that Jesus is Lord of the dead?

The dead in Christ are the saints that have been baptised into His death and ressurection.=Eternal life.

Peace

 

[WarEagle]

The dead in Christ are the saints that have been baptised into His death and ressurection.=Eternal life.

Peace

I see. So then, I would be an example of the dead in Christ?

 

[WarEagle]

It was a typo

That's one heck of a typo.

Now, answer the question.

First of all, how can I be nekros? I just got a physical last week and, other than a little bronchitis, the doctor prounounced me healthy.

Don't you think he would have noticed if I were nekros?

Second, doesn't the verse very clearly differentiate between those believers who are physically alive and those who are physically dead?

 

[lionroar0]

I see. So then, I would be an example of the dead in Christ?

Yes. We can't be bapsited into the ressurection with out being baptised into His death.

His death and ressurection conquered death.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

So, how does Roman Catholicism teach that we are to attain forgiveness and reconciliation if not through Christ's atonement?

Through His atonement.

Peace

 

[WarEagle]

Yes. We can't be bapsited into the ressurection with out being baptised into His death.

His death and ressurection conquered death.

Peace

First of all, how can I be nekros? I just got a physical last week and, other than a little bronchitis, the doctor prounounced me healthy.

Don't you think he would have noticed if I were nekros?

Second, doesn't the verse very clearly differentiate between those believers who are physically alive and those who are physically dead?

 

[sunlover1]

First of all, how can I be nekros? I just got a physical last week and, other than a little bronchitis, the doctor prounounced me healthy.

Don't you think he would have noticed if I were nekros?

Second, doesn't the verse very clearly differentiate between those believers who are physically alive and those who are physically dead?

But Christ in you, the hope of glory...

But you're dead to sin:

Romans 6
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6602776#_ftn1
http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6602776#_ftnref1



Eph 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins,
hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved ;
6 And hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.