Historical accurate?

1. Were there any emperors during Jesus time had died before Jesus was actually born?

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

Any thoughts and facts about these 3 questions would be greatly appreciated.

superman2010 said:

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

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If an eyewitness writes down their experience decades later, does that make it less historical? How many books have been put out by former cabinet members of past presidents? Arent those counted as fact? What about movies made many many years after an event? Documentaries?

Many people have written their experiences down years after an event. It happens all the time. I find it strange that the only one that gets questioned seems to be the Bible.

In Christ, GB

superman2010 said:

1. Were there any emperors during Jesus time had died before Jesus was actually born?

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

Any thoughts and facts about these 3 questions would be greatly appreciated.

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1. Not sure what you are asking. If it is about the year of Jesus's birth, that can only be estimated based on information about civil and religious leaders in the Gospels, which does not completely agree with known history.

2. The idea that the Gospels were not written by the actual Apostles is generally accepted by Bible scholars. The first three do not contain a name and we really don't know which John the last Gospel is referring to. It is very likely that the written Gospels are based primarily on the oral teachings of the first Apostles which were passed on to later disciples and communities, and later committed to writing. The clearest indication of that is in the introduction of Luke's Gospel.

3. Matthew was referencing Isaiah and there is disagreement over whether Isaiah means "virgin" or "young woman". There are also other instances were NT writers attributed OT scripture incorrectly. They probably did not have easy access to written scriptures and their references were likely based on oral teachings and were coming from memory, either their own or someone else's.

You may be trying to point out that the Bible cannot be "literally true" since it is not historically accurate. But that should have no bearing on faith, since it is the meaning of Jesus and the content of His message that is critical, not the accuracy of historical dates or how words are translated or used.

superman2010-

The emperor at the time of Jesus' birth was Augustus Caesar. Tiberius Caesar was the emperor at the time of Jesus' Passion.

Three of the four gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke), as well as the book of Acts, were already written by circa 62 A.D. Evidence for this early dating can be found here:

www.bible-researcher.com/muratorian.html

Arguments for an early dating of the gospels can be found here:

www.christiancadre.org/topics/dating_nt.html

As for Jesus' having been born of a virgin, that is confirmed by Matthew and Luke. Since both of these gospels were written well within the time period of the apostles and Jesus' relatives, their authors would both have had living witnesses from whom to get their information.

good brother said:

If an eyewitness writes down their experience decades later, does that make it less historical? How many books have been put out by former cabinet members of past presidents? Arent those counted as fact? What about movies made many many years after an event? Documentaries?

Many people have written their experiences down years after an event. It happens all the time. I find it strange that the only one that gets questioned seems to be the Bible.

In Christ, GB

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It's rather naive to assume someone would accurately remember every single detail of events over a period of 3 years some 40-50 years later. Can you remember what you ate on December 12th of last year?

superman2010 said:

1. Were there any emperors during Jesus time had died before Jesus was actually born?

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The Gospel of Luke, which gives the most historical data, has been found to be quite accurate in the Emperors, governors, and such who lived in the time of Jesus.

superman2010 said:

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

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No one know for sure exactly when each Gospel was written but most biblical historians agree that they were finished before the turn of the 1st century.

superman2010 said:

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

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All of the Gospel writers were familiar with the Septuagint and included several quotes from it in their writing.

To help you understand the Septuagint, LXX, after the death of Alexander the Great, his kingdom was divided amongst his generals. Ptolemy I, a Greek general, received Egypt and established the Ptolemaic Dynasty, of which Cleopatra was from.

He wanted a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures and commissioned a team of seventy or seventy-two Hebrew scholars to translate the Torah. No one knows for sure who translated the other books but they were in use during the time of Jesus.

Justin Martyr was one of the 2nd century writers who wrote of the Jews, of that time, removing or changing scripture. He had copies of the ancient Hebrew scripture which proved his point. What we have today, in most Bibles, are the translation of the Masoretic text.

Masoretic Text - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's some good resources:

Reasonable Faith: Scholarly Articles - Historical Jesus

Reasonable Faith:

http://christianthinktank.com/jesusref.html

the OT said it was a young woman.

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If I'm not mistaken, in Hebrew, the "young woman" means virgin. Plus, how do you know the author of Matthew couldn't read Hebrew? As Hebrew-friendly as that book is, that seems to be quite a leap.

Moved to Exploring Christianity from Christian Apologetics.

Jase said:

It's rather naive to assume someone would accurately remember every single detail of events over a period of 3 years some 40-50 years later. Can you remember what you ate on December 12th of last year?

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It is even more niave to think that someone who walked with God could forget what happened when they did.

In Christ, GB

P.S. I was eating a meal at my mother in law's house after my father in law's funeral. Thanks for asking. Its amazing how people can remember imprtant events.

superman2010 said:

1. Were there any emperors during Jesus time had died before Jesus was actually born?

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

Any thoughts and facts about these 3 questions would be greatly appreciated.

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The first 2 points have really been represented fairly well to this point so i do not see a need to recount them. As to the Third, it has already been said the young woman and virgin mean the same. This is the why:

Because it was not lawful for a "young woman" or pre-pubescent "woman" or rather a Child (as you would understand it.) to have sex. We know Marry was a virgin because She was not of the Age of consensual Martial sex. It was customary for a man to take a "wife" at a young age (especially if he was, and her family were also very poor) Because it allowed the man to have someone to fill the role of (for lack of a better word) a servant. or someone to run his house that he did not have to pay, or buy. and the Young woman's family got to skip out on the traditional dowelery amount. The two were married before a priest but were not allowed to have sex till She was of age, otherwise They would have both been stoned to death.

That is why a "Young Woman" (Woman because of her responsibilities as head of the house hold, young because physically she was not "of age.) and Virgin are interchangeable. Virgin was not the clinical term you understand it to be now. It described a woman/girl that physically was not ready to bear children.

We know Marry was a virgin because She was well below the normal birthing age, and now like then, all it takes is a physical exam to determin clinical virginity. (Which is the reason they were not stonned to death.) If this apsect of Jesus's life could have been dispelled it would have been, long before your got your information.

superman2010 said:

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

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Who cares and why? And why do the names "Mark" and "Luke" become associated with gospel writers anyway? Why not Peter, James, James (the brother), or Paul? If you're going to make up a name, presumably to help legitimize your writing, why would you use some obscure name? Why use people that weren't even part of the original 12? It would be like me trying to make up a fake document that I claimed attested to insider information of the Regan Administration's inner circle and when you ask me who the author is I tell you "Mr. Bill Clark wrote it". Your resposne would rightly be, "Who in the world is that"? Wouldn't I at least get somone that was actually in Regan's circle or served in his administration if I were going to concoct such a thing?!?

In any case, it doesn't really matter who we think the author is; the gospels themselves don't assign authorship to anyone in particular. If it didn't bother them, why would it bother us? And how is this really relevant anyway?

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

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I think the reverse was actually the case. I think Matthew knew of the virgin birth, then he remembered Isaiah 7:14 (the LXX version) and applied that in some way to Jesus. I don't think that he read Isaiah 7:14 and said, "oh, Mary MUST have been a virgin because this place said it"; I think it was more like, "oh, Mary was a virgin and I bet I should have already known this so let me go back and see what I missed".

superman2010 said:

1. Were there any emperors during Jesus time had died before Jesus was actually born?

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You question does make sense. I guess you are referring to the emperors of Rome. If they had died before the birth of Jesus they could hardly be around during Jesus' lifetime.

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

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Yes. Does this matter, and if so, in what way does it matter?

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

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The author of Matthew was thinking a little wider and deeper than Isaiah. But, Yes, the author was obviously linking Jesus with the OT. Again, is this a problem?

superman2010 said:

1. Were there any emperors during Jesus time had died before Jesus was actually born?

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That's kind of a self-contradictory question, don't you think?

superman2010 said:

2. The 4 gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were added decades later.

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Decades later than when? Most Bible scholars agree that these books were written within the timeframe of the lives of the authors, and that the named authors are the best candidates for the actual authors.

superman2010 said:

3. Jesus is said to be born through a virgin is because the person who wrote Matthew did not speak or read Hebrew. Therefore, he based the gospel on the Greek translation of Isaiah and had mistakenly prophesy of a virgin when the OT said it was a young woman.

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If you were to assume that, then how would you account for Luke's corroboration of the story - and that Luke interviewed Mary personally?

The truth of the matter is this: A young woman gave birth to a child hundreds of years before Jesus was born, and this foreshadowed the birth of Jesus by an actual virgin.