Hinn and Bonke

[Wigglesworth]

Televangelists don’t want your sympathy; they want your money, that’s why they keep asking for it.

Universal statements are always false. By that logic, every church I've visited should be shut down as a fraud, because they received offerings.

When I hear this complaint about famous preachers from pagans, my response is this:

All Quaker Oats wants is our money. Perhaps we should embark on an anti-oatmeal crusade. All ABC, NBC, and CBS want is our money. Maybe we should boycott those purveyors of pornography, violence, and obscenity.

 

[Wigglesworth]

If the body of Christ was not being attacked there would be no need to defend it from attack. Of course we would expect it to be attacked from the adversary but why is it that we seem to take so much pleasure at taking pot shots at each other. As a pastor you have a responsibility to lead God's people and will be called to give an account.

I have noticed that you do not seem to be too concerned who you aim at. It seems that you think they are fair game as long as they have a ministry that has a bigger budget than yours or perhaps is on TV and has the ordacity to ask for funds to support it. By the way do you take a collection to cover your costs or do you finance your own ministry by some other means.

This post deserves a sincere, legitimate response from the one charged. To agree to disagree is simply to ignore a solid call to repentence. As an elder of the church, any man charged in this way should spend some serious time searching his words and motives to determine why he looks this way to his brethren. I join in the concerns presented by A4C, and have noticed the deficiency of the fruits of the Spirit in posts on this subject.

 

[Andrew]

Universal statements are always false. By that logic, every church I've visited should be shut down as a fraud, because they received offerings.

When I hear this complaint about famous preachers from pagans, my response is this:

All Quaker Oats wants is our money. Perhaps we should embark on an anti-oatmeal crusade. All ABC, NBC, and CBS want is our money. Maybe we should boycott those purveyors of pornography, violence, and obscenity.

That's a good one!

But you need to understnd that Jim M is very bitter about an experience he had abt a teleevangelist which he has already shared here. So that explains why he hates these people and their ministries so much.

I think he should forgive and let go.

 

[Tenken]

Both sides of the arguments are valid. It's my belief that God sometimes does use wolves to bring someone close to him (heck he can use anything to achieve his purpose on us, be it disaster, famine, etc.) But I'm not naming anyone as wolves or anything, and if he is indeed one, then he will have to answer to God, who has the only right to judge. Having said that, we do, however, have to have a discerning spirit to be wary against the wolves, and to test all spirits to be wary of false prophets.

just my 2 cents.

 

[JimB]

Universal statements are always false. By that logic, every church I've visited should be shut down as a fraud, because they received offerings.

When I hear this complaint about famous preachers from pagans, my response is this:

All Quaker Oats wants is our money. Perhaps we should embark on an anti-oatmeal crusade. All ABC, NBC, and CBS want is our money. Maybe we should boycott those purveyors of pornography, violence, and obscenity.

The difference, of course, is that Quaker Oats, et.al., do not misuse/abuse the gospel to sell their product, nor do they use deception and fraud to market their products.

\o/

 

[JimB]

That's a good one!

But you need to understnd that Jim M is very bitter about an experience he had abt a teleevangelist which he has already shared here. So that explains why he hates these people and their ministries so much.

I think he should forgive and let go.

Wow, Andrew! Are you having a bad day? Have you diagnosed me or just lowered yourself to being judgmental because you disagree with my position? FYI, my parting with the televangelist was mutual and a relief (on both our parts). I had dropped out of active involvement in the ministry a long time before I was dropped from their rolls. It was a relief not to be identified with a ‘ministry’ I no longer respected. I had become uninvolved in the ministry because I was disillusioned, not only with the evangelist on whose board I sat, but because I no longer admired televangelism in general. (Televangelists can be a pretty disgusting bunch when you get them together in a room, take it from one who has been there.) Fact is, I do not respect televangelists enough to ‘hate’ them. I hate what they do, but I love them.

All of our idols have clay feet, Andrew. Especially our preacher idols who should live by higher standards.

Fact is, like it or not, I know televangelists because I worked in the business for years. I have met and had business dealings with many of those whose names sometimes appear in this forum. I have heard them in their behind-the-doors conversations talk about the redeemed, the family of God (i.e., you), like they were merchandise. They see us as sheep to be fleeced. And, you know, we act like gullible sheep being led to the shearer over-and-over again, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I am surprised, though, and a little disappointed in you, Andrew, that you would have accuse me of such a odious sin as hatred. This is a pretty serious charge to level at an elder and brother. I really thought you were above stooping to name-calling and casting aspersions on people you disagree with. That is a very immature way to discuss differences. Maybe it was just a heated moment of anger that caused you to charge me with a sin. I hope so.

Jim

 

[PastorSherm]

Thank you, A.
Jim

LOL

 

[Andrew]

Wow, Andrew! Are you having a bad day? Have you diagnosed me or just lowered yourself to being judgmental because you disagree with my position? FYI, my parting with the televangelist was mutual and a relief (on both our parts). I had dropped out of active involvement in the ministry a long time before I was dropped from their rolls. It was a relief not to be identified with a ‘ministry’ I no longer respected. I had become uninvolved in the ministry because I was disillusioned, not only with the evangelist on whose board I sat, but because I no longer admired televangelism in general. (Televangelists can be a pretty disgusting bunch when you get them together in a room, take it from one who has been there.) Fact is, I do not respect televangelists enough to ‘hate’ them. I hate what they do, but I love them.

All of our idols have clay feet, Andrew. Especially our preacher idols who should live by higher standards.

Fact is, like it or not, I know televangelists because I worked in the business for years. I have met and had business dealings with many of those whose names sometimes appear in this forum. I have heard them in their behind-the-doors conversations talk about the redeemed, the family of God (i.e., you), like they were merchandise. They see us as sheep to be fleeced. And, you know, we act like gullible sheep being led to the shearer over-and-over again, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I am surprised, though, and a little disappointed in you, Andrew, that you would have accuse me of such a odious sin as hatred. This is a pretty serious charge to level at an elder and brother. I really thought you were above stooping to name-calling and casting aspersions on people you disagree with. That is a very immature way to discuss differences. Maybe it was just a heated moment of anger that caused you to charge me with a sin. I hope so.

Jim

Jim,

Say what you like, but the bitterness undertones come across very clearly in your posts regarding these folks. You may not realise it or want to acknowledge it, but its there.

I really hope you can forgive, let go and move on.

 

[JimB]

Jim,

Say what you like, but the bitterness undertones come across very clearly in your posts regarding these folks. You may not realise it or want to acknowledge it, but its there.

I really hope you can forgive, let go and move on.

And I want to thank you, Andrew, for calling it to everyone's attention. Couldn't this have been said in a PM? Or are you finding some sort of morbid pleasure in belittling me in a public forum?

You know, I could say that you have a tone of bitterness in your post, too, Andrew, but I think I’ll remain a gentleman and let the temptation pass.

\o/

 

[RainDrop864]

Gentlemen,

God is good. Do you agree? (of course... =) ) so no matter what any of us thinks of these men..they are just mere men. It's all for God's glory. So forget about the "politics" (i'm using that word lightly) of God's servants (no matter who they are..or what they have done..by the way..we should heal not condemn!) and give God the glory! For look at the outcome of His servants: healings, salvations, testimonies..
Not for or from His servants..but for and from God.

I hope none of the above is arguable..if so sorry..haha I don't know.. But God does! =) ha ha...

with all the tenderness and compassion,
Your friend,
In Christ,
Sarah.

 

[Andrew]

God is good. Do you agree? (of course... =) ) so no matter what any of us thinks of these men..they are just mere men. It's all for God's glory. So forget about the "politics" (i'm using that word lightly) of God's servants (no matter who they are..or what they have done..by the way..we should heal not condemn!) and give God the glory! For look at the outcome of His servants: healings, salvations, testimonies..

Amen.

 

[Blade]

Any of these people are just men and women like us with one difference. They answered a call. And the higher the call the farther the fall. Any preacher knows there is a ton of other things going on in the back ground than just asking for money. And what we and others say will come and go but all we answer to God. We all, no matter who we are have to let go of the past. We have to, HAVE TO see them like Jesus does. When he looks at any us his 1st words or what he sees it not the bad or our faults he sees what? If God is behind them then I suggest you don't get in the way. If he is not they will fall.

But were all like that most of the time the 1st thing we see is the wrong. Try to look at all the good 1st and don't stop soon it's all you see.

This has nothing to do with this but I just remembered it where I was posting in the forums here and this answer (verse) popped in my head and I thought "wow you are great God thanks" he said no...I am the best.

Jesus I am so in love with you..

 

[ChristianRocks]

Hi guys... I have to add my 2 cents to say I do think Benny is the real thing. I think the Holy Spirit has enabled us to see a fake 1.) by his fruits, and 2.) by the gift of the discerning of spirits. When the Holy Spirit is present in the room, we know it dont we? Benny Hinn and his ministry has done nothing to damage or hinder my relationship with Jesus, but in fact has made me realise that I am greatly loved and valued by God and that I shouldn't put the Holy Spirit in a box. I think Benny's great

 

[JimB]

When posting to threads about this issue (televangelists, fraudulent ministry) I try not to name names. I do not know the hearts of any of the televangelists. I suppose what concerns me is the fraudulent methods they use in “ministry”, by the way the religious networks promote it or, at least, endorse it, and by the way they are given a blanket pass by many in this forum. Because they do not police themselves they have earned a very low reputation among the general public. If you were to research the history of mega-ministries during the 20th century the list of men/women caught in scandalous misbehavior would stretch to the floor. The more acclaim they are given the more susceptible we make them to scandal ... and it seems to happen in P/C circles more than anywhere else. And the more scandals that occur the less our message is willingly heard by those who need it.

We launched a new church in our city some months ago. One person we invited to our meetings told me frankly that he thought the only reason I was planting a church was to get money out of people. Not only did he believe that, but so did many of his friends. It was guilt by association.

A few years ago, I took some copy to a printer to announce a healing meeting. He refused to take our order saying it was only a money-making scheme like (and he mentioned the name of two prominent evangelists caught in sexual sins). He wanted no part of our “scam”. Guilty by association.

As a pastor, I know why I do not want to be labeled “Pentecostal” or “Charismatic”. The labels have been sullied by methods I detest but to the untrained mind, right or wrong, I am lumped together with (some) men who would do a better service to the kingdom of God by selling used cars than by preaching their fundraising brand of the gospel.

IMO.

\o/

 

[A4C]

When posting to threads about this issue (televangelists, fraudulent ministry) I try not to name names. I do not know the hearts of any of the televangelists. I suppose what concerns me is the fraudulent methods they use in “ministry”, by the way the religious networks promote it or, at least, endorse it, and by the way they are given a blanket pass by many in this forum. Because they do not police themselves they have earned a very low reputation among the general public. If you were to research the history of mega-ministries during the 20th century the list of men/women caught in scandalous misbehavior would stretch to the floor. The more acclaim they are given the more susceptible we make them to scandal ... and it seems to happen in P/C circles more than anywhere else. And the more scandals that occur the less our message is willingly heard by those who need it.

We launched a new church in our city some months ago. One person we invited to our meetings told me frankly that he thought the only reason I was planting a church was to get money out of people. Not only did he believe that, but so did many of his friends. It was guilt by association.

A few years ago, I took some copy to a printer to announce a healing meeting. He refused to take our order saying it was only a money-making scheme like (and he mentioned the name of two prominent evangelists caught in sexual sins). He wanted no part of our “scam”. Guilty by association.

As a pastor, I know why I do not want to be labeled “Pentecostal” or “Charismatic”. The labels have been sullied by methods I detest but to the untrained mind, right or wrong, I am lumped together with (some) men who would do a better service to the kingdom of God by selling used cars than by preaching their fundraising brand of the gospel.

IMO.

\o/

I think Christians are the only species who stab themselves in the back and complain of loss of blood

 

[JimB]

I think Christians are the only species who stab themselves in the back and complain of loss of blood

Would this be a stab?
\o/

 

[A4C]

Would this be a stab?
\o/

No this is an open forum

 

[JimB]

No this is an open forum

Oh. Then it's backstabbing when others do it.

 

[A4C]

Jim
Just in case you didn't get my point I will spill it out for you:
When you have become a "victim" of the opposition to your ministry because of the critism that has been levelled at others you are merely reaping the "rewards" of your own participation.

 

[Suffolk Sean]

Jim
Just in case you didn't get my point I will spill it out for you:
When you have become a "victim" of the opposition to your ministry because of the critism that has been levelled at others you are merely reaping the "rewards" of your own participation.

Amazing......

Maybe he is a victim because of unscrupulous people out there giving christianity a bad name.