Hinn and Bonke

A4C · Dec 8, 2004

Suffolk Sean said:
Amazing......

Maybe he is a victim because of unscrupulous people out there giving christianity a bad name.

No there are a lot of people out there falsely accusing and most of them are also in Christ and should have a better idea about what the Word instructs on these matters.

Suffolk Sean · Dec 8, 2004

A4C said:
No there are a lot of people out there falsely accusing and most of them are also in Christ and should have a better idea about what the Word instructs on these matters.

To say the churchs p00p don't stink is to blind one's self to reality, that being there are people out there that are taking advantage of others to the point of abuse. To pretend it isn't happening is to be in violation of the Word.

JimB · Dec 8, 2004

Suffolk Sean said:
To say the churchs p00p don't stink is to blind one's self to reality, that being there are people out there that are taking advantage of others to the point of abuse. To pretend it isn't happening is to be in violation of the Word.

For the record, I have never enjoyed ministry better nor have I felt Gods presence more than I do today. Life is wonderful here in the pineywoods.

You know, Sean, you are right. It is amazing to me that unscrupulous preachers get more mercy from their followers than do the victims of their scams. I have never understood why a televangelist who drives a $90,000 Mercedes, wears a $30,000 Rolex, and lives in a $3 million home deserves more mercy than the widow he took the money from.

Go figure.

\o/

A4C · Dec 8, 2004

Suffolk Sean said:
To say the churchs p00p don't stink is to blind one's self to reality, that being there are people out there that are taking advantage of others to the point of abuse. To pretend it isn't happening is to be in violation of the Word.

Do these people actually know they are being "abused" ?
Have you been nominated as their spokesperson?
Are they remaining in their abuse receiving position still?
Have you read about the "widows mite" - Was she being abuse by your standards?
Is it abuse to use funds collected in affluent countries to fund crusades in poor countries?

Suffolk Sean · Dec 8, 2004

A4C said:
Do these people actually know they are being "abused" ?
Have you been nominated as their spokesperson?
Are they remaining in their abuse receiving position still?
Have you read about the "widows mite" - Was she being abuse by your standards?
Is it abuse to use funds collected in affluent countries to fund crusades in poor countries?

Many don't know they are abused, they are manipulated into thinking the minister is right and to do anything contrary would be to disobey God. This is by design of the abuser.

As one that has seen rampant abuse, I can speak out against it. I have also seen people attempting to abuse me both deliberatly and innocently not realizing that they were manipulating. There is a distinct difference between the two.

Yes, many remain because there is no infrastructure to get them out. They made sure of that when they set it up.

The Widow gave freely of her own will, she was not manipulated. Even if she were, God would honor her.

It isn't abuse to fund ministry. It is abuse to fund a minister solely to stroke the minister's ego and fund the minister's ministry. (Note I didn't say the ministry God gave them.)

Ask anyone here. I defend these guys by far and large, I think BH is the real deal along with Bonke. But just like many Catholics refuse to see the issues with the RCC, we P/C's turn our head and let "the annointed" continue in their abuse.

A4C · Dec 8, 2004

If there are many who share in the blessings that mega ministries bring what would the detracters of these same ministries share in?
Perhaps an old "remedy " by wise ancient council still stands "If it is not of God it will not stand"
Perhaps instead of wide brushing whole ministry types, if the detracters are equipped to do so they should encourage the manifestation of discernment of spirits within the context of maturing the saints.

JimB · Dec 8, 2004

A4C said:
If there are many who share in the blessings that mega ministries bring what would the detracters of these same ministries share in?
Perhaps an old "remedy " by wise ancient council still stands "If it is not of God it will not stand"
Perhaps instead of wide brushing whole ministry types, if the detracters are equipped to do so they should encourage the manifestation of discernment of spirits within the context of maturing the saints.

How do you share in the blessings of mega-ministers? Ill look for my blessings somewhere else.

If it is not of God it will not stand? Have you noticed the regularity of teleministries falling into scandal? What will you do when one you have faithfully supported is caught in the next scandalous sin? Of course, I hope you will pray for him/her but I will also say you should have seen it coming.

I do encourage discernment. Thats why I post my objections to the current method of television ministry.

\o/

Wigglesworth · Dec 8, 2004

Jim M said:
How do you share in the blessings of mega-ministers? Ill look for my blessings somewhere else.

Jim,

I'm putting $5.00 in the mail tonight as a seed sown into your ministry. Please send back a receipt. In doing this, I am applying what I have learned from Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Rod Parsley, and Jesse Duplantis.

Suffolk Sean · Dec 8, 2004

A4C said:
If there are many who share in the blessings that mega ministries bring what would the detracters of these same ministries share in?
Perhaps an old "remedy " by wise ancient council still stands "If it is not of God it will not stand"
Perhaps instead of wide brushing whole ministry types, if the detracters are equipped to do so they should encourage the manifestation of discernment of spirits within the context of maturing the saints.

Why on earth do I need to share in the blessings of a ministry? I'm a child of God and have access to all blessings through Him.

Discernment is important, but it comes with age and wisdom. It would be malpractice for a mature believer to not lookout for the less mature.

Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Like I said, I defend these guys usually, but I'm not blind to abuse.

Blade · Dec 9, 2004

"Wigglesworth" amen love is the answer.

Do you know how silly this thread is. We need TRUTH. Truth is if any of us have been hurt in the past and it makes no diff what it is we MUST, have to forgive. You don't say you forgave then but..... God makes it very clear if you do not forgive them he will not forgive you.

Why do I find is so easy to forgive them? I have as of yet not been able to find one, not one thing my Jesus will not forgive and forget. I am like you I say Lord what about him man just look at what he has done. The Lord says what did I do for you? These people do no sin aginst you. Their tempted and heard the wrong voice. Went the wrong way. And if you did it alone or infront of a million people the answer is the same. Try to look in to Jesus eyes and tell me what you see.

LOVE....

JimB · Dec 9, 2004

Blade said:
"Wigglesworth" amen love is the answer.

Do you know how silly this thread is. We need TRUTH. Truth is if any of us have been hurt in the past and it makes no diff what it is we MUST, have to forgive. You don't say you forgave then but..... God makes it very clear if you do not forgive them he will not forgive you.

Why do I find is so easy to forgive them? I have as of yet not been able to find one, not one thing my Jesus will not forgive and forget. I am like you I say Lord what about him man just look at what he has done. The Lord says what did I do for you? These people do no sin aginst you. Their tempted and heard the wrong voice. Went the wrong way. And if you did it alone or infront of a million people the answer is the same. Try to look in to Jesus eyes and tell me what you see.

LOVE....

You are assuming (judging?) unforgiveness in someones heart, Blade. What I am seeing is an anger (indignation) directed toward men using the gospel as a cloak to defraud naïve, trusting people (among them widows, underprivileged, limited incomes, elderly) out of money.

So this thread is not silly at all. It is needed.

Jesus got angry, too (and I am sure their were some who wanted to accuse him of unforgivness/bitterness). In fact, he got angry at least three (some say six) occasions like,

1). when he forcefully drove the money changers (who also preyed on devout people) from the Temple because they viewed pious people as merchandise (do I see a parallel here?),

2). when his disciples dismissed children, and

3). when the religious people criticized him in their heart for healing a withered hand on the Sabbath.

In each instance his anger was not sparked by some personal injustice but because Gods people were being made merchandise of, innocents were barred from his presence and because some saw religious rules as being more important than a mans healing.

You should be angry, too, at the way Gods children are duped into pouring money needed to pay a utility bill into some evangelists Mercedes, mansion, and Rolex watch.

Your compassion seems to be for the abusers, not their victims. Why is that? Why do you seem to think the abusers are suddenly the victims!

\o/

JimB · Dec 9, 2004

Wigglesworth said:
Jim,

I'm putting $5.00 in the mail tonight as a seed sown into your ministry. Please send back a receipt. In doing this, I am applying what I have learned from Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Rod Parsley, and Jesse Duplantis.

I do not want your money, W? I dont need it. God is taking good care of me. Give it to a person who cant pay their heating bill or buy groceries, I would only buy a BMW with it.

(And how did you come by my address? Or were you just being facetious?)

\o/

Asaph · Dec 9, 2004

I have a great money making idea I thought I would run by you guys to see if you thought it had merit. It would actually be a "pyramid" scheme and therefore highly illegal except I have a way around that. I will base the results of the pyramid on the "faith" of those who participate, then if they don't get the promised payback it's their own fault and we can't be thrown in jail! Brilliant ain't it!

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing before? Did it work?

(Easy guys. Just exagerating to make a point. )

Asaph

CelineDion · Dec 9, 2004

How many of you personally know Benny Hinn and have seen his non existent evil in action? I know Benny and he is the nicest, most sincere christian ever. He is currently building an orphanage in Haiti. Its supposed to be a big surprise they will show on TBN soon. Your money isnt being wasted. He is being paid by HIS church (its really a nice church). My dad is a televangelist and i hate when i see you people putting people who you dont even know down. Grow up!

CelineDion · Dec 9, 2004

By the way for your information i was at the Bonke crusade when the man was raised from the dead...it was real. If you say it wasnt your nothing but a liar.

JimB · Dec 9, 2004

CelineDion said:
How many of you personally know Benny Hinn and have seen his non existent evil in action? I know Benny and he is the nicest, most sincere christian ever. He is currently building an orphanage in Haiti. Its supposed to be a big surprise they will show on TBN soon. Your money isnt being wasted. He is being paid by HIS church (its really a nice church). My dad is a televangelist and i hate when i see you people putting people who you dont even know down. Grow up!

Hi Celine,

If your Dad is anything like his daughter he must be a marvelous guy. While I am on the other side of this issue from you, I agree that we should avoid using names and pointing an accusing finger at individuals. We do not know their lives or hearts. That there are honest men/women who seek to spread the Good News by television I dom not doubt, but too many scandals have shown that there are dishonest and disreputable men/women who use TV for their own nefarious purposes.

For myself, it is not these people so much as it is the SYSTEM (think religious networks) that allow it and even promote it, need to police themselves. I am convinced that there is no real ethical standards that are enforced by these networks and too much shadiness is condoned from those who use them.

Another big scandal or two from their rosters will only make your Dads motives suspect and make his service to God harder.

Until religious networks begin policing themselves with more strict standards, abuse of the airwaves will continue and someday the FCC will step in and shut the whole thing down and hiding behind the Bill of Rights will not help.

This is my concern and, I feel, should be the concern of every minister identified with them. And, like it or not, I and your Dad are lumped together with fraudulent ministers for no other reason than we share the same P/C label.

\o/

CelineDion · Dec 9, 2004

Thanks jim...*hugs*

Asaph · Dec 9, 2004

CelineDion said:
By the way for your information i was at the Bonke crusade when the man was raised from the dead...it was real. If you say it wasnt your nothing but a liar.

And this statement is Loving and Christian how?

CelineDion · Dec 9, 2004

I love you but if you tell something that isnt true its a lie. Do you disagree?

Asaph · Dec 9, 2004

CelineDion said:
I love you but if you tell something that isnt true its a lie. Do you disagree?

Don't try to sidestep either my point or the anger and condemnation of your post.

Hinn and Bonke

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