Hindrances to receiving the Baptism?

[Hisgirl]

Do you believe everyone having hands layed on to receive the Baptism will receive it? Is there ever a 'timing issue' involved?

I've witnessed several people receiving prayer for this and going away disappointed, because they truly felt nothing happened...no feeling, no experience, no tongues, no difference, no nothing...just the exact way they felt before the prayer. And no witness of power ever manifested.

I've read, at times, there can be hindrances to receiving the Baptism. What are your thought on this. There seems to be many people here who can tell you the time, date, clothes they were wearing.....everything to the detail when they were filled because it was that much of a significant event.

So for someone to say "Nothing Happened....I'm telling you....nothing happened" it makes me wonder if there can be hindrances.

 

[Andry]

What would you expect to happen?

 

[Hisgirl]

What would you expect to happen?

Well, I suppose something that would allow you to know something has happened....I asked one time, awhile back, about people's baptism of the Holy Spirit. What a beautiful thread! Most people knew the exact date and described in vivid detail the joy....It seemed there was a 'before' and 'after' for them. I know there isn't always some type of manifestation...tongues....or for me, an intense tingling in my hands and arms....but to walk away and say you know without a doubt you didn't receive anything...well, I'm not sure I would argue with them.

My friend's husband was prayed over two weeks ago. She said the pastor got a confused look on his face at the end of the prayer...she had her hand on him and said he felt 'dead'. The next day he told her he received nothing and was sorely disappointed. I know the pastor..he is a humble servant of the Lord. The man said he definitely has accepted Jesus...so what do you think happened.

Same for someone else i know...she had hands layed on twice...and nothing happened. No joy, no manifestation of any gifts, no change, and a sincere realization that nothing had happened.

So what would you say to these people?

 

[Nightfire]

Maybe tell them that the Holy Spirit is not a human feeling, but a divine reality. The effects of a Spirit-filled life becomes visible long after the feeling of "having been anointed" has left you. Maybe God is trying to tell them that He doesn't care much what people think it should feel like - He already told us through Christ what it should be like.

The change is in your heart, and the rest of the body takes a while to "get with the programme" - sometimes it takes the rest of your life.

 

[Andrew]

You receive the Spirit baptism the same way you receive salvation -- by grace through faith. It is a gift.

Different ppl have different 'experiences'/'feelings'/'manifestations when they get saved. Some feel absolutely nothing except maybe a peace others have a 3D experience. Most are not dramatic.

When it comes to the Spirit baptism, ppl fail to receive becos they are going by feelings. If they dont feel anything, then they conclude nothing happened.

There is no faith.

Others think they have to 'work' for it. They cry beg mourn tarry... and forget that it is a gift received by faith.

You pray for it, believe you have it, and then step out in faith and speak in tongues until the river bursts forth.

Here's my personal testimony on how I received:

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/spiritbaptism.html

I believe the majority of ppl receive this way. ie they step out and speak. The enter the water first, like the priests in the OT, BEFORE the river parts.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You receive as soon as you ask believing.
If you think there is a timing issue.. there will be.
If you think you have to be more holy, you will have to wait until you are. When you finally convince yourself you are worthy to receive... then you will.
Be it unto you according to your faith.
God is ready to do it now, instantly.
We are the ones who put up all kind of requirements and restrictions.

 

[Trish1947]

I believe the number one reason that people do not receive, not just the Baptism of the Holy spirit, but answers to their prayers, healings, presence of the Lord, being led of the spirit, is we try to receive these things by standing in our own rightousness. We have the Word, but we cant seem to access it. It just doesn't work that way..you will never be rightous enough to receive. But if your willing to set aside your own assessment of your goodness, and abide in His rightousness, and His righousness is as good as it's going to get, when this truth opens up to you, all Heaven opens up to you..The very Jesus that we know and love comes flooding into your spirit, in total fullness. The very throne room of grace received becomes accessable to you. This is how we are to receive anything of the Lord, is through total faith that He was the one that was all sufficient, and you cannot add any other requirements to this truth. Basicly leave yourself and your assessment out of the equation of God's grace. We hear if you be "willing and obediant." we must be willing and obediant to this truth.

 

[Andry]

I believe the majority of ppl receive this way. ie they step out and speak. The enter the water first, like the priests in the OT, BEFORE the river parts.

You raised a very good example. Let me take the liberty to eloborate.....

Joshua 3:15-16
"And as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) that the waters which came down from above stood [and] rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam..."

It says as soon as the priests feet touched the Jordan, the river stopped flowing......in Adam. But Adam was 15 miles away.

If the Jordan was optimistically flowing at 5 mph, that means it would take 3 hours for the water to pass where they were standing.

But in the meantime....the priests were standing there waiting. Now can you imagine what the first priests holding the Ark - who was standing deeper than the priests at the back - may have been thinking after an hour went by and nothing seemed to change? Or two hours?

"Did we hear God correctly?" "Did Joshua get it right?" "God did say, right?"

And their all wet, cold, and everything in the natural looks the same. In fact, it may be getting worse, from where they were standing.

There are a number of lessons to be learnt hear. For those who may be looking for a 'sign' or an 'experience', or for those who may still be waiting.

It's a faith stand. And even when we don't 'feel' any different, remain standing in faith.

 

[Questioning Christian]

The Bible speaks distinct qualities of a Spirit-filled life, and I take them from John 16:7-15

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [are you doing this with unbelievers?]

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth [are you learning more truth?]: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[is the Spirit showing you the future?]

14He shall glorify me [are you glorifying Christ? ]: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you [are you partaking of the things of Christ?].

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

To me, those are some simple questions to ask, based on the Holy Spirit's nature.

Are you reproving the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment? are you learning more truth? is the Spirit showing you the future? are you glorifying Christ? are you partaking of the things of Christ?

These are the true marks of the Spirit-filled life. You can speak in tongues all day, and prophesy also, and do mighty miracles [and I believe you should], but if people are not seeing God in your life in how you conduct yourself and your affairs, it is all in vain.

I Corinthians 13

 

[JimB]

Since believers are baptized in the Spirit the moment they believe and are immediately added to the church, the Body (1 Cor. 12.13) your question should probably be, “Hindrances to ‘being filled’ with the Spirit?”

From my understanding of the biblical terms (I know, I know, it’s just semantics but proper I believe get our terms straight is important, 1 Cor. 14.8) . It took me years to learn this fact, despite the hard work of a lot of excellent teachers, and it has made a difference in how I would approach your question.

At least three things happened at Pentecost:

[1] the Holy Spirit came as promised and birthed the Church;

[2] Believers were baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Church (1 Cor. 12.13; Acts 2.46-47) and

[3] Believers were “filled” with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2.4).

What do you think?

~Jim

 

[Hisgirl]

I know Billy Graham makes the same points.. But what about when Jesus told the disciples to tarry because they would be 'baptized' with the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5) this was after He had breathed on them and they received the Spirit. (John 20:22)

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost; John 20:22

For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:5)

Acts 2:4 says And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

So the event prophesied by Jesus (them being baptized) is described with the word 'filled'.

Does this mean the word is interchangeable?

 

[JimB]

I know Billy Graham makes the same points.. But what about when Jesus told the disciples to tarry because they would be 'baptized' with the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5) this was after He had breathed on them and they received the Spirit. (John 20:22)

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost; John 20:22

For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:5)

Acts 2:4 says And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

So the event prophesied by Jesus (them being baptized) is described with the word 'filled'.

Does this mean the word is interchangeable?

He simply told them to wait (tarry, in Pentecostalese) in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came at which time they would be added to the Church.

You are assuming that when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit that it happened at that instant. I am just as correct to assume it did not.

To answer your question, IMO the terms are separate. To be baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, which happens at conversion, is something entirely different than being filled with the Holy Spirit. The fact that both of these things happened at the same time at Pentecost has confused the issue without giving it some unbiased thought.

~Jim

 

[Trish1947]

My understanding is the day you receive Christ, you received the Spirit of Christ. He recreated your spirit, your born again. But the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is when you receive power.. He said "you shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you. Before the coming of the Holy Spirit, the Apostles, were timid, hiding out, fearful, had no boldness, things changed after they were Baptised with the Holy Spirit. I believe that all believers recieve the Spirit of Christ at the new birth.. but the Baptism of the Holy Spirit can come at the same time as conversion, or it can come much later.

 

[Hisgirl]

He simply told them to wait (tarry, in Pentecostalese) in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came at which time they would be added to the Church.

You are assuming that when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit that it happened at that instant. I am just as correct to assume it did not.

To answer your question, IMO the terms are separate. To be baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, which happens at conversion, is something entirely different than being filled with the Holy Spirit. The fact that both of these things happened at the same time at Pentecost has confused the issue without giving it some unbiased thought.

~Jim

Hmmm....I haven't looked at it that way. So let's use the term 'filled' then...what is your opinion in reference to the original post?

 

[JimB]

Hmmm....I haven't looked at it that way. So let's use the term 'filled' then...what is your opinion in reference to the original post?

IMO (as with everything I post), As with anything, the hindrance from receiving anything God has for us is lack of faith, acceptance.

~Jim

 

[Mark Downham]

Dana

The real issue is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but the Release of the Holy Spirit - we often have to deal with strongholds and bind the work of the enemy - sometimes people are in a hiddeness phase as opposed to a manifestation phase - in all situations ask for insight and revelation and the Spirit will show what to do - He will start to speak to you and direct you - each time will be different - sometimes scripture,sometimes a prophetic declaration and/or action - sometimes just total silence - I hear the sound of a river rising in you - your ministry is increasing.

Amen.

Mark.

 

[JimB]

Dana

The real issue is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but the Release of the Holy Spirit - we often have to deal with strongholds and bind the work of the enemy - sometimes people are in a hiddeness phase as opposed to a manifestation phase - in all situations ask for insight and revelation and the Spirit will show what to do - He will start to speak to you and direct you - each time will be different - sometimes scripture,sometimes a prophetic declaration and/or action - sometimes just total silence - I hear the sound of a river rising in you - your ministry is increasing.

Amen.

Mark.

Where in the Bible, exactly, is the phrase “Release of the Holy Spirit”?

~Jim

 

[Mark Downham]

Jim

Hi. Study Galatians 3:1 - 5

1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.


2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

4 Have you suffered so much for nothing— if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

and -

Romans 8:26 -28

So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.


27And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the [Holy] Spirit [what His intent is], because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with God's will. 28We are assured and know that [God being a partner in their labor] all things work together and are [fitting into a plan] for good to and for those who love God and are called according to [His] design and purpose.

Either we will see the release of the Spirit in these texts or we will not see - what we see and how we see is always a choice - stay on fire and you are on fire.

With Love.

Mark

 

[rapturefish]

IMO (as with everything I post), As with anything, the hindrance from receiving anything God has for us is lack of faith, acceptance.

~Jim

That doesn't take into account the factor of timing. I prayed for the gift of tongues and the baptism, but nothing happened for several months. During that time I read books and I reread the scriptures in ight of a paradigm shift I was going through regarding the HOly Spirit. Now I can put that delay down to faith in the process of being built up. I had to reach that place where I no longer feared tongues but was at peace about receiving them based on the promise of scripture.

Now, once I had come to that place, and I was prayed for, and had a hand ladi on me to receive tongues, nothing still happened. This time however I was totally at peace about it and was not really perturbed about it. I just thought that it was simply no the Lord's timing.

And, as it happened, it was a case of the Lord's timing. I went home, went to have a shower and tried speaking again. And I began to speak. I put this down to God deciding that for me to speak in a context where I was alone, away from the classic evangelical fears of peer pressure, psychological manipulation, etc. and in no doubt that this was of God and not a case of being too impressionable. For someone from a conservative background that meant a lot, and I was glad for God's wisdom.

blessings,

 

[Mark Downham]

That doesn't take into account the factor of timing. I prayed for the gift of tongues and the baptism, but nothing happened for several months. During that time I read books and I reread the scriptures in ight of a paradigm shift I was going through regarding the HOly Spirit. Now I can put that delay down to faith in the process of being built up. I had to reach that place where I no longer feared tongues but was at peace about receiving them based on the promise of scripture.

Now, once I had come to that place, and I was prayed for, and had a hand ladi on me to receive tongues, nothing still happened. This time however I was totally at peace about it and was not really perturbed about it. I just thought that it was simply no the Lord's timing.

And, as it happened, it was a case of the Lord's timing. I went home, went to have a shower and tried speaking again. And I began to speak. I put this down to God deciding that for me to speak in a context where I was alone, away from the classic evangelical fears of peer pressure, psychological manipulation, etc. and in no doubt that this was of God and not a case of being too impressionable. For someone from a conservative background that meant a lot, and I was glad for God's wisdom.

A marvellous testimony - very real, very christlike.

Mark