Hillsong Criticism

[dms1972]

Let’s say that’s true, and there’s no teaching. Then they are still in sin and shouldn’t be supported.

I wasn't arguing with you, but most of their youtube material is just singing. What else happens at these events?

I just would need to see a better breakdown of what actually is taught at Hillsong and what actually goes on.

I am not sure if Hillsong is quite as out there as Bethel from his description.

I would say singing hymns and songs now is done for a different reason than in the past - its about getting in touch with God, having an encounter with God and Jesus and an experience of His Presence. Not sure this is entirely wrong however?

 

[Hammster]

I wasn't arguing with you, but most of their youtube material is just singing. What else happens at these events?

I couldn't quite tell from Justin Peters in the video I posted what was wrong theologically with Hillsongs - he said they had a "false theological system" but didn't say a lot more about what it was and how it was wrong.

He could be right, but I need to know if he saying it is false because it doesn't agree with his theology or if it differs from an objective standard of theological truth.

Everyone thinks their theology is right. RT Kendall jokes that RT stands for Right Theology!

I just would need to see a better analysis of Hillsong and what actually goes on.

These guys, Todd Friel etc. all come from a conservative evangelical background - I've seen Todd interviewing MacArthur, Sproul, Mohler etc.

Did you watch the video?

 

[dms1972]

Did you watch the video?

I had watched it before. I listened to it again and changed my post, as he does say more about it further on which i had forgotten, so I edited my post accordingly.

I think he should give two talks one about Hillsong and the other about Bethel, because while Hillsong may have its issues it doesn't seem to be as extreme as Bethel, and Todd Friel points that out.

The other thing I would ask is can these churches not be reformed, or corrected?

 

[Hammster]

I had watched it before. I listened to it again and changed my post, as he does say more about it further on which i had forgotten, so I edited my post accordingly.

I think he should give two talks one about Hillsong and the other about Bethel, because while Hillsong may have its issues it doesn't seem to be as extreme as Bethel, and Todd Friel points that out.

The other thing I would ask is can these churches not be reformed, or corrected?

You can look up his videos on the New Apostolic Reformation. Both churches fall under that heading.

As to them reforming, they would be up to God to change hearts.

 

[dms1972]

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[dms1972]

What is the "little gods" theory Justin Peters talks about, and how does it differ from what the Bible teaches.

 

[dms1972]

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[Guojing]

What is the "little gods" theory Justin Peters talks about, and how does it differ from what the Bible teaches.

Its the doctrine, made popular by Bill Johnson of Bethel, that Jesus did all his signs and wonders as an ordinary man in the right relationship with God.

Thus, Bill, together with many Word of Faith preachers, believe that, Christians, in the same right relationship with God, can perform the same signs and wonders for today.

Charisma Magazine

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I love Bethel and Hillsong. My church sings quite a bit of it. We are a Word of Faith church also though. Many of the songs do have lyrics that focus on God. I watched some of the video. I think people need to listen to songs that draw them close to God. If Bethel music doesn't do that, definitely listen to someone else. I have no idea about the theologies of people who sing music. I just see people are coming to God and drawing closer to God through these songs.

I too love Hillsong and Bethel and while bethels beliefs sound a bit off from what Ive read their songs are great.

 

[dms1972]

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[Bramblewild]

I did a critique of some worship songs a couple of years ago, looking at the lyrics and trying to see if my critical feelings about those songs was fair, or maybe not fair. One song I looked at was Hillsong's Oceans. Here are some of my thought on it...

One of the worst ways of teaching the Bible is to take a biblical account and to claim that God is telling us to do the same kinds of things today that those people did back then, but usually in some metaphorical way; for example, to take the account of the shepherd boy David defeating the warrior giant Goliath, making Goliath some kind of metaphor for any problems and difficulties we may have (since by and large none of us have to deal with literal 9-foot tall warriors),and teaching that we can overcome our “goliaths” the same way David did.

That's not how the Bible works, because that's not how God works. In Genesis, God gave Joseph some dreams about his future, but we would be teaching false doctrine if we said that God wanted to speak to everyone through dreams as he spoke to Joseph, or even to compare Joseph's dreams to our own dreams for the future.

...

In one of the temptations Satan gave to Jesus, he took him to the top of the Temple, and told him to throw himself down, even using a biblical passage to try to give the temptation the appearance of scriptural legitimacy. Jesus’ response was also from scripture, a warning to not put God to the test.

Here’s the truth: Jesus invited one man, Peter, to come to him on the water, but he didn’t say the same to any of the other disciples, nor did Jesus rebuke them for not doing so. For that matter, at no other time in the New Testament does any apostle or other believer walk on water. When Paul was on a ship that was caught in a storm and sank, the passage is silent about him walking on the water, and the angel that visited him at no time told him to get off the boat, step onto the water, and walk away (Acts 27).

...

For we who are Christians, God is with us, his grace abounds toward us who are the chiefest of sinners. God isn’t found in the mystery, which is at best a gnostic idea. God is near to all of his children, his words are at our fingertips in scripture, his ear is ready to hear our prayers.

To brag about our attempts to reach up to God is even less reasonable then if one bragged about how high one can jump when reaching for the stars. Even the most skilled basketball player can jump only a few few feet off the ground, and when compared to the millions of miles the nearest star is from earth, such a paltry jump is meaningless. Our works are equally futile if they are our attempts to reach God.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I did a critique of some worship songs a couple of years ago, looking at the lyrics and trying to see if my critical feelings about those songs was fair, or maybe not fair. One song I looked at was Hillsong's Oceans. Here are some of my thought on it...

One of the worst ways of teaching the Bible is to take a biblical account and to claim that God is telling us to do the same kinds of things today that those people did back then, but usually in some metaphorical way; for example, to take the account of the shepherd boy David defeating the warrior giant Goliath, making Goliath some kind of metaphor for any problems and difficulties we may have (since by and large none of us have to deal with literal 9-foot tall warriors),and teaching that we can overcome our “goliaths” the same way David did.

That's not how the Bible works, because that's not how God works. In Genesis, God gave Joseph some dreams about his future, but we would be teaching false doctrine if we said that God wanted to speak to everyone through dreams as he spoke to Joseph, or even to compare Joseph's dreams to our own dreams for the future.

...

In one of the temptations Satan gave to Jesus, he took him to the top of the Temple, and told him to throw himself down, even using a biblical passage to try to give the temptation the appearance of scriptural legitimacy. Jesus’ response was also from scripture, a warning to not put God to the test.

Here’s the truth: Jesus invited one man, Peter, to come to him on the water, but he didn’t say the same to any of the other disciples, nor did Jesus rebuke them for not doing so. For that matter, at no other time in the New Testament does any apostle or other believer walk on water. When Paul was on a ship that was caught in a storm and sank, the passage is silent about him walking on the water, and the angel that visited him at no time told him to get off the boat, step onto the water, and walk away (Acts 27).

...

For we who are Christians, God is with us, his grace abounds toward us who are the chiefest of sinners. God isn’t found in the mystery, which is at best a gnostic idea. God is near to all of his children, his words are at our fingertips in scripture, his ear is ready to hear our prayers.

To brag about our attempts to reach up to God is even less reasonable then if one bragged about how high one can jump when reaching for the stars. Even the most skilled basketball player can jump only a few few feet off the ground, and when compared to the millions of miles the nearest star is from earth, such a paltry jump is meaningless. Our works are equally futile if they are our attempts to reach God.

Songs are often a metaphor for emotional struggles, and approaches to problems.
If one looks at things as merely an invitation to follow a historical event with another similar event you miss the power of song, of emotional expression, of faith put into words, of the aspiration of victory in difficult circumstances.

Where I have a problem is how Bethel and Hillsong go beyond spiritual limits and write their own version of spiritual authority and power. So christian use of cards to predict the future of others in a reading, astral travel to the 3rd heaven, listening to dead people to give messages to the living, giving to God so that one might get back multiple amounts in return.

I have seen so many praying for those with cancer to no avail, as if their faith and prayers are the power of healing, rather than accepting Gods will, and imploring Him to change it. One is a view of some magic, the other is seeing life as it is, and asking the Lord to express His love through His people through an act of grace, which He promises He will listen to.

For predicting futures is actually unbelief in resting in Gods love and faithfulness. It does not matter what happens to us if we know we are in His hands and He is working His purposes out through us. How many believers go, Amen, the Lord is calling me home? I do know of a brother of a friend who did do exactly that, praise the Lord. If one wants to see a miracle that is truly one.

God bless you