Hillary Used High Tech Scrubber, BleachBit, To Delete Emails

[MrSpikey]

I think that using her email in a foreign country "extensively" has a higher risk than using it "occasionally", again a threat assessment.

It is a risk to use a non-secured personal account. It is a bigger risk to use it overseas. It is an even bigger risk to use it over seas EXTENSIVELY.

As you didn't address my questions, I'm just going to assume you agree that extensively does not mean at all times.

So what did she use for her work emails when not using her personal account?

 

[tall73]

And yet another statement, from Hillary's web page:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/07/13/email-facts/

Why did Clinton use her own email account?


When Clinton got to the Department, she opted to use her personal email account as a matter of convenience. It enabled her to reach people quickly and keep in regular touch with her family and friends more easily given her travel schedule.


That is the only reason she used her own account.


Her usage was widely known to the over 100 State Department and U.S. government colleagues she emailed, consistent with the practice of prior Secretaries of State and permitted at the time.


As Clinton has said, in hindsight, it would have been better to just have two accounts. While she thought using one account would be easier, obviously, that has not been the case.

 

[tall73]

As you didn't address my questions, I'm just going to assume you agree that extensively does not mean at all times.

So what did she use for her work emails when not using her personal account?

Of course I answered your question. She used it extensively over seas. As opposed to using it sparingly overseas.

 

[MrSpikey]

But that is not what you claimed. You claimed the "personal" account also had work stuff on it. Which this statement does not agree with.

"She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries"

I think that's pretty clear.

“Secretary Clinton used one email account when corresponding with anyone, from department officials to friends to family,” Merrill said.

I said several pages ago that I thought the statements were vague, and didn't implicitly indicate the use of a single account. I've pointed out time and again where I think the evidence for that lies. I'll agree the statement above doesn't align with that, but it's pretty clear by now that not everything offered into evidence was factual. My statements are based on the conclusion of the investigation, not individual witness testimony. Maybe it's time for you to show where Comey's press release covering the actual decision shows a single account was used?

 

[MrSpikey]

Of course I answered your question. She used it extensively over seas. As opposed to using it sparingly overseas.

My question was:

Do you think "extensively" means "at all times"?

It's against the rules of this site to suggest that posters are lying, so I don't do that.

 

[tall73]

"She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries"

I think that's pretty clear.



I said several pages ago that I thought the statements were vague, and didn't implicitly indicate the use of a single account. I've pointed out time and again where I think the evidence for that lies. I'll agree the statement above doesn't align with that, but it's pretty clear by now that not everything offered into evidence was factual. My statements are based on the conclusion of the investigation, not individual witness testimony. Maybe it's time for you to show where Comey's press release covering the actual decision shows a single account was used?

So to understand then, you are saying Clinton lied? Do you realize that statement was also sent to Gowdy's committee in print by a Clinton lawyer. Are you suggesting that the findings of the investigation showed that a written statement by Clinton's lawyer was in fact a misrepresentation?

 

[tall73]

My question was:

Do you think "extensively" means "at all times"?

It's against the rules of this site to suggest that posters are lying, so I don't do that.

I think she could not have possibly used her email at all times, she needs time to eat, sleep, etc. as well. However, it is pretty clear she used her email A LOT in a foreign country, which is a big risk.

 

[tall73]

I said several pages ago that I thought the statements were vague, and didn't implicitly indicate the use of a single account.

All you need to do is go find the emails that have the two different addresses. That is now your burden to prove as I showed that Clinton insists she used only one, the IG report says she used only the personal account exclusively, the Clinton lawyers says she used the same to talk to friends and family, etc.

If you want to prove otherwise, the burden is now on you.

But of course, if you do show that then it is just one more instance where here lawyers misrepresented the facts to the committee....as Trump would say....not good.

 

[MrSpikey]

So to understand then, you are saying Clinton lied? Do you realize that statement was also sent to Gowdy's committee in print by a Clinton lawyer. Are you suggesting that the findings of the investigation showed that a written statement by Clinton's lawyer was in fact a misrepresentation?

No.

I'm suggesting she probably had little idea about the specifics of what was implemented in terms of the hardware and software, just like most email users, and had a cavalier attitude to the separation of her personal and work emails.

Comey's statement addressed all that, and took her to task for her cavalier behaviour.

I don't recall the findings saying anything about Clinton's lawyer's statements.

 

[MrSpikey]

I think she could not have possibly used her email at all times, she needs time to eat, sleep, etc. as well. However, it is pretty clear she used her email A LOT in a foreign country, which is a big risk.

When you are prepared to answer my question, I'll reply to you again.

For reference, here it is again:

Do you think "extensively" means "at all times"?

 

[tall73]

No.

I'm suggesting she probably had little idea about the specifics of what was implemented in terms of the hardware and software, just like most email users, and had a cavalier attitude to the separation of her personal and work emails.

Comey's statement addressed all that, and took her to task for her cavalier behaviour.

I don't recall the findings saying anything about Clinton's lawyer's statements.

She wouldn't know if she was using two different email accounts?

Just how stupid are you willing to portray her as? And what would you gain if you do show she had two accounts, which no one is claiming? That her lawyers presented a non-factual statement?

 

[tall73]

When you are prepared to answer my question, I'll reply to you again.

For reference, here it is again:

Do you think "extensively" means "at all times"?

I do not think extensively means at all times.

Nor do I think she emailed "at all times"

It says she used her personal account extensively. It does not say anything about another account. And the IG report says she used only a personal account exclusively. Her website says it, her lawyers said it, and you have presented no email with a different address.

 

[tall73]

And of course this is all to avoid the fact that she was sending email to hacked accounts. In other words, bad actors did get info.

 

[tall73]

No.

I'm suggesting she probably had little idea about the specifics of what was implemented in terms of the hardware and software, just like most email users, and had a cavalier attitude to the separation of her personal and work emails.

Comey's statement addressed all that, and took her to task for her cavalier behaviour.

He took her and the others she was corresponding with to task about something a bit more problematic than not keeping her stuff separate:

Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.


For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).


None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.

 

[MrSpikey]

I do not think extensively means at all times.

Nor do I think she emailed "at all times"

It says she used her personal account extensively. It does not say anything about another account. And the IG report says she used only a personal account exclusively. Her website says it, her lawyers said it, and you have presented no email with a different address.

Hurrah, finally, answer.

She obviously didn't email "at all times". Comey's statement was about extensive use of a personal email account for work emails.

So what was used for work emails the rest of the time?

 

[MrSpikey]

He took her and the others she was corresponding with to task about something a bit more problematic than not keeping her stuff separate:

Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.


For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).


None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.

Was "cavalier attitude" not good enough for you to describe this? What phrase would you find acceptable?

 

[tall73]

Hurrah, finally, answer.

She obviously didn't email "at all times". Comey's statement was about extensive use of a personal email account for work emails.

So what was used for work emails the rest of the time?

It does not say she sent work emails the rest of the time. It says she used her personal email extensively.

From Dictionary.com
great in amount, number, or degree:

She emailed a lot.


She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries.

So she used this personal email extensively, including work emails. And of course she apparently used it for personal emails.

He never says anything about a "work" email, only a personal, because that is all she used.

 

[tall73]

Was "cavalier attitude" not good enough for you to describe this? What phrase would you find acceptable?

You stated:

No.

I'm suggesting she probably had little idea about the specifics of what was implemented in terms of the hardware and software, just like most email users, and had a cavalier attitude to the separation of her personal and work emails.

Comey's statement addressed all that, and took her to task for her cavalier behaviour.

The major thrust of his statement about her "carelessness" was that she discussed classified material on a non-classified system, not just that she didn't keep things separate (which of course you, and apparently only you, allege she did mostly).

 

[tall73]

So to sum up

a. you claim the language is ambiguous. You stress the word account.

b. You dismiss statements by the IG that she exclusively used a personal account.

c. You dismiss statements by her lawyers, to the committee, that she only used one account, for talking to everyone, personal and work alike.

d. You refuse to present any statement that says she did use two accounts

e. You refuse to present any email from the many released emails that used a different account

f. You say she is so dense she couldn't figure out if she were using two accounts.


The burden of proof is on you to show she used two accounts. And if you do you just showed again how her lawyers misrepresented the facts on her behalf to the committee.

 

[tall73]

Gowdy etc. also claimed she emailed from two accounts because they found a couple from a different account. But it turns out that account was created after she left office.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/05/clintons-secret-email-accounts/

If Gowdy and the like were not able to establish other accounts, it is unlikely you would.