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Hillary Clinton's scandals explained briefly

redleghunter

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Sorry, that made my laugh out loud. Make your mind up, please...

Read the statutes. Intent is not necessary to prefer charges. However intent was evident given the classified material was found on her personal unsecured server and email. The FBI chose not to prefer charges.
 
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MrSpikey

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I think you missed the point of what I posted.

No. Certainly not on the statutes you quoted, anyway.

For the first clause to pertain here, then she would need to have transmitted classified information to someone who wasn't legally allowed to receive it - whether that was on her own email server or on a government one, she would have broken the law you quoted. Whether she ran her own email server or not is irrelevant.
 
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MrSpikey

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Read the statutes. Intent is not necessary to prefer charges. However intent was evident given the classified material was found on her personal unsecured server and email. The FBI chose not to prefer charges.
I have read them.

We've discussed them.

Many times.

Apparently we won't agree on this.

The decision was made not to prosecute by a legally trained professional who had reviewed all the evidence, a description that applies to neither of us.

I'm not sure continuing to believe that decision was wrong will make you feel any better about it, but you're a better judge of that than me.
 
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redleghunter

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That's not stated in the law. Unlike physical documents, emails duplicate and end up in multiple places - the author's computer, their email server, the destination server, the recipients email. I'd agree they need to update the wording to apply to digital situations, as opposed to physical documents that can be kept under physical security.

I will chalk this up to you not knowing federal government regulations and statutes at large.

Top secret and secret information has absolutely no electronic or network link to the worldwide web. They both operate on their own network to prevent national secrets from leaking to foreign nationals and the public at larger. Thus why it is called classified information.

There is no way for someone to sit at a top secret terminal and email documents to a private email account. No way. There is no way to sit at a top secret terminal and email documents to a secret email address. No way.

The only way to get classified material from classified systems is to an unsecured system (www or gmail) is to download the material to a disk (which is illegal) or print it out and scan the documents to an unsecured system (which is also illegal).

On your email question. On approved classified systems all electronic attachments must be marked with the proper security classification (label TS Secret, Confidential or Unclass). The email body itself must be labeled as well with the proper classification.

What you are missing is Hillary bypassed all of the above and moved classified material from approved secured systems (illegal) to her private server and email (illegal) and transmitted said classified material over the unsecured unauthorized server and email And removed the classification labels (most illegal).

When I say unsecured unapproved server and email this is what it means.

If you work at the DoE and have access to nuclear reactor information, you are only allowed to deal with that information within an approved location at the DoE building. You can email other DoE employees with the same clearance and need to know your work to get their inputs. That's fine because you are on the DoE Top secret network and Wikileaks cannot touch that fiber.

Now after a long day on the job you call it quits. But you really want to continue your work. You decide you will download some material to a DVD to work at home (illegal). Then you print out some hard copy diagrams labeled top secret. You decide to scan them in on the unclassified scanner but first white out the labels.(illegal) You then use your work unclassified email to send the scanned doctored documents to your gmail account. (Illegal).

When home you download the DVD disk to your Mac computer which has internet service through the local cable company. You have a home server and download all your homework. (Illegal)

What I outlined above shows multiple violations of Federal CFR, Executive orders, and agency regulations and statutes. HRC and her team violated everyone one of the outlined points.

Here are some open source regulations. Note, for the secret squirrel stuff, you won't find the regulations on the web.

https://fam.state.gov/fam/12fam/12fam0530.html

https://www.google.com/search?ei=oi...erp..1.14.1672...33i160k1j33i21k1.XFjEXcB76tY

http://fas.org/sgp/isoo/safeguard.html
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
 
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MrSpikey

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I will chalk this up to you not knowing federal government regulations and statutes at large.

Top secret and secret information has absolutely no electronic or network link to the worldwide web. They both operate on their own network to prevent national secrets from leaking to foreign nationals and the public at larger. Thus why it is called classified information.

There is no way for someone to sit at a top secret terminal and email documents to a private email account. No way. There is no way to sit at a top secret terminal and email documents to a secret email address. No way.

The only way to get classified material from classified systems is to an unsecured system (www or gmail) is to download the material to a disk (which is illegal) or print it out and scan the documents to an unsecured system (which is also illegal).

On your email question. On approved classified systems all electronic attachments must be marked with the proper security classification (label TS Secret, Confidential or Unclass). The email body itself must be labeled as well with the proper classification.

What you are missing is Hillary bypassed all of the above and moved classified material from approved secured systems (illegal) to her private server and email (illegal) and transmitted said classified material over the unsecured unauthorized server and email And removed the classification labels (most illegal).

When I say unsecured unapproved server and email this is what it means.

If you work at the DoE and have access to nuclear reactor information, you are only allowed to deal with that information within an approved location at the DoE building. You can email other DoE employees with the same clearance and need to know your work to get their inputs. That's fine because you are on the DoE Top secret network and Wikileaks cannot touch that fiber.

Now after a long day on the job you call it quits. But you really want to continue your work. You decide you will download some material to a DVD to work at home (illegal). Then you print out some hard copy diagrams labeled top secret. You decide to scan them in on the unclassified scanner but first white out the labels.(illegal) You then use your work unclassified email to send the scanned doctored documents to your gmail account. (Illegal).

When home you download the DVD disk to your Mac computer which has internet service through the local cable company. You have a home server and download all your homework. (Illegal)

What I outlined above shows multiple violations of Federal CFR, Executive orders, and agency regulations and statutes. HRC and her team violated everyone one of the outlined points.

Here are some open source regulations. Note, for the secret squirrel stuff, you won't find the regulations on the web.

https://fam.state.gov/fam/12fam/12fam0530.html

https://www.google.com/search?ei=oi...erp..1.14.1672...33i160k1j33i21k1.XFjEXcB76tY

http://fas.org/sgp/isoo/safeguard.html
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
Regulations != laws.

Are you saying no cached copies of emails remain, even on e.g. regular handheld devices, when the server is secure?

As I said in my previous post - we seem to be yet again revolving in circles.

Neither of us know the minutiae of the evidence to argue. The decision was reached by those that do.
 
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redleghunter

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For the first clause to pertain here, then she would need to have transmitted classified information to someone who wasn't legally allowed to receive it - whether that was on her own email server or on a government one, she would have broken the law you quoted. Whether she ran her own email server or not is irrelevant.

Not correct. HRC violated the first clause by the unauthorized removal of classified materials from the proper source or system or facility. The FBI findings make this clear.
 
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redleghunter

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I have read them.

We've discussed them.

Many times.

Apparently we won't agree on this.

The decision was made not to prosecute by a legally trained professional who had reviewed all the evidence, a description that applies to neither of us.

I'm not sure continuing to believe that decision was wrong will make you feel any better about it, but you're a better judge of that than me.
The FBI investigation did establish HRC and team violated every clause of the statute you quoted. Comey just decided not to book her.

That is your government at work for you and me.

While a poor slob I worked with who accidentally sent a classified document on an unclassified fax was fired, lost his security clearance and his career ended.
 
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redleghunter

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Oh the irony! Anthony Wiener's actions bring down a massive criminal conspiracy.

Rich isn't it.

In all the coverage tonight no reporter could find him.

Wonder if he copped a plea and that is what prompted the investigation to reopen.
 
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MrSpikey

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The FBI investigation did establish HRC and team violated every clause of the statute you quoted. Comey just decided not to book her.

That is your government at work for you and me.

While a poor slob I worked with who accidentally sent a classified document on an unclassified fax was fired, lost his security clearance and his career ended.
No, his statement explained the law, then explained why the investigation did not reach the conclusion that she had broken that law.

If she had violated "every clause of the statute", then he wouldn't be able to excuse not charging her.

Someone is lying here.

You say it's Comey.

I think it's you.

I really can't reach any other conclusion having read the legal advice laid out an actual highly qualified lawyer who has seen the evidence. Sorry.
 
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redleghunter

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Are you saying no cached copies of emails remain, even on e.g. regular handheld devices, when the server is secure?

That's the point...the classified server is secure.

It does not touch the internet we use. From our computers at home we cannot touch the government secure servers. Different pipes.

How does Wikileaks get all these emails?

From the negligent practice of removing classified information from approved containers and servers to private means.
 
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MrSpikey

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That's the point...the classified server is secure.

It does not touch the internet we use. From our computers at home we cannot touch the government secure servers. Different pipes.

How does Wikileaks get all these emails?

From the negligent practice of removing classified information from approved containers and servers to private means.
I wasn't talking about the server, but about the client.

Wikileaks never got mails held on secure servers?

Show me the part of the legislation you feel was violated. Or not. I'm done going round and round.
 
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redleghunter

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MrSpikey

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Comey said no one in their right mind would prosecute the case against HRC. His way of saying she was above the law.

He laid out a convincing case to refer her for indictment. He just chose not to do it:

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
He stated the law, then said why she didn't merit prosecution.

It's not a long document.

Try and read it without contradicting his stated conclusions, then I will stop thinking you are deliberately lying about it.
 
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redleghunter

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I wasn't talking about the server, but about the client.

Wikileaks never got mails held on secure servers?

Show me the part of the legislation you feel was violated. Or not. I'm done going round and round.

What specifically about the client?

No Wikileaks never hacked a US government classified system.

Assange leaks of recent emails all came from hacked worldwide web internet email accounts and private server accounts.

Violations?

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

Explains it well.

We may be going in circles due to the general public not knowing how federal and military personnel are required to handle and store classified information.

HRC as a US senator on the armed forces committee knew the statutes and regulations. I know them quite well too.
 
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redleghunter

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He stated the law, then said why she didn't merit prosecution.

It's not a long document.

Try and read it without contradicting his stated conclusions, then I will stop thinking you are deliberately lying about it.

He stated she removed classified materiel from proper storage and placed it on her personal servers. Violation.

He said she transmitted classified information on her personal server. Violation.

She allowed personell without proper clearance access to classified information. Violation.

She transmitted classified information without proper marking of classification level over her personal servers. Violation.

Those are facts in the findings. Comey decided to not prefer charges. Stunning.
 
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redleghunter

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Does the email remain on the client? Sent items? Cached files?



No, they aren't hackers and never have been - but they famously published classified US gov't data, no?

Yes. Manning was a big haul for Assange. He received that data directly from Manning who removed the classified data to a thumb drive.

Manning is now doing hard time.
 
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redleghunter

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For those interested there is much more.

Some have asked me why if HRC violated security statutes, then why did Director Comey let her walk without preferring charges (booking her).

The below and links (None wikileaks) from the actual FBI 302s show it helps when the State dept lawyers and HRCs attorney have direct access to the investigation team and pressure them into ignoring evidence:

FBI 302 EXCERPTS

https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/hillary-r.-clinton-part-04-of-04/view

[Read]

https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/hillary-r.-clinton-part-04-of-04/at_download/file

[100 pp. PDF]

Hillary R. Clinton Part 04 of 04

At 26-27:



Following the above exchange, [redacted] was summoned to an "all agency" meeting at STATE to discuss matters pertaining to the classification review of pending CLINTON FLIA materials. [Redacted][redacted] official from STATE, along with representatives from CIA, DIA and other government agencies were present. PATRICK KENNEDY presidedover the meeting. During the conversation, a participant specifically asked whether any of the emails in question were classified. Making eye contact with [redacted] KENNEDY remaiked, "Well, we'll see." [Redacted] believed this was reference to the FBI's categorization of the SECRET//NOFORN email which KENNEDY was attempting to influence. In a private meeting with KENNEDY following the all agency meeting, KENNEDY asked [redacted] whether the FBI could "see their way to marking the email unclassified?" According to [redacted] KENNEDY spent the next 15 minutes debating the classification of the email and attempting to influence the FBI to change its markings. Since [redacted] continued to assert that the email was appropriately marked SECRET//NOFORN, KENNEDY asked who else in the FBI he could speak with on the matter. [Redacted] referred KENNEDY] to MICHAEL STEINBACH, Assistant Director of CTD.
[Redacted] was then present during a conference call involving KENNEDY and STEINBACH in which KENNEDY continued to pressure the FBI to change the classified markings on the email to unclassified. STEINBACH refused to do so. Prior to ending the conversation, KENNEDY asked whether the FBI or STATE would conduct the public statements on the matter. STEINBACH advised KENNEDY that the FBI wold not comment publicly onthe matter. The conference call ended and, according to [redacted] the Associated Press (AP) published the story within the hour. Former Secretary of State CLINTON appeared in front of the press shortly thereafter to deny having sent classified emails on her private email server.

At 39:



Contrary to statements made on August 6, 2015, TURNER advised that only five of the six laptops are in the possession of Williams & Connelly, the sixth being in the possession of [redacted], counsel for CHERYL MILLS, former Chief of Staff for CLINTON. [Redacted] admitted that the computer in his possession has been connected to the Internet on numerous occasions subsequent to being loaded with the classified email communications of HILLARY CLINTON. This laptop was possessed by CHERYL MILLS but utilized by HEATHER SAMUELSON, an attorney on her staff, to conduct a review of approximately 60,000 emails originally contained on CLINTON's private email server. According to [redacted] SAMUELSON deleted CLINTON's personal emails from the original 60,000 resulting in the 30,490 emails eventually turned over to the FBI. [Redacted] claimed the other emails had been deleted from the laptop but was unable to specify whether they had been forensically wiped to an unrecoverable state.
Both [redacted] and TURNER admitted that the emails contained on these laptops had been viewed by attorneys who did not have a security clearance at the time they reviewed the material. TURNER said the emails did not contain classification markers and thus they were not aware that they were classified at the time.

At 53:



The Information Programs and Services (IPS), Bureau of Administration oversaw the FOIA program. In or around November or December 2014, in response to a FOIA request, IPS officials were notified they would pick-up 14 banker boxes of emails at former Secretary of State Hillary CLINTON's office related to CLINTON's use of personal email to conduct official STATE business. Later [redacted] to pick-up only 12 boxes at Williams & Connolly, LLP. [Redacted] and IPS officials were unsure what happened to the other two boxes. The items in the boxes were stacked with no folders or known method of organization.
At 55:



The review officials that [redacted] and [redacted] used for the review of the 296 emails were not the same normal review officials that the IPS team use on a regular basis. For example, [redacted] and [redacted] did not use the IPS' normal point of contact for the FBI, [redacted] but instead used someone from the Department of Justice to count as the FBI reviewer. The names [redacted] and [redacted] stated they used for White House Counsel and the Department of Defense were also not the regular reviewers the IPS team used. [Redacted] and [redacted] upon being asked directly, would not give a name of who they coordinated reviews with at the CIA.
Throughout the process, [redacted] stated if an email/item should have a B(1) exemption, then IPS would use a B(1) exemption. Despite that, at the end of the referral process, IPS was told to run everything by Legislative Affairs and [redacted] IPS officials felt intimidated when they used or suggested the use of the B(1) exemption on any of the 296 emails. In addition to [reacted] and [redacted] KENNEDY and [redacted] were named as some of the STATE officials who pressured IPS employees to not label anything as classified.

At 55:



The review officials that [redacted] and [redacted] used for the review of the 296 emails were not the same normal review officials that the IPS team use on a regular basis. For example, [redacted] and [redacted] did not use the IPS' normal point of contact for the FBI, [redacted] but instead used someone from the Department of Justice to count as the FBI reviewer. The names [redacted] and [redacted] stated they used for White House Counsel and the Department of Defense were also not the regular reviewers the IPS team used. [Redacted] and [redacted] upon being asked directly, would not give a name of who they coordinated reviews with at the CIA.
Throughout the process, [redacted] stated if an email/item should have a B(1) exemption, then IPS would use a B(1) exemption. Despite that, at the end of the referral process, IPS was told to run everything by Legislative Affairs and [redacted] IPS officials felt intimidated when they used or suggested the use of the B(1) exemption on any of the 296 emails. In addition to [reacted] and [redacted] KENNEDY and [redacted] were named as some of the STATE officials who pressured IPS employees to not label anything as classified.
 
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