Higher Creatures

[food4thought]

Does "the power of the Spirit" in Numbers 11:17 and Numbers 11:25 qualify as a higher creature?

Most expositors would consider this to be the Holy Spirit that was placed upon them, thus meaning that it would be God Himself, not a creature.

 

[food4thought]

In Genesis 16, an angel talks to Ishmael's mother, Hagar, about her relationship with Sarai. This is the first time the Bible uses the word, angel; but it must be the third time the Bible talks about angels because Cherubim and sons of God are also called angels. Maybe some of the various spirits could also be angels.

Which "spirits" would you be referring to?

 

[Pagan]

Which "spirits" would you be referring to?

Things like the Spirit of Jacob in Genesis 45:27. This is a common kind of spirit in the Bible such as the spirit of Sihon, the spirit of Zerubbabel, or the spirit of Marley.

Also, spirit of wisdom, familiar spirit, spirit of jealousy, evil spirit, evil spirit from the Lord, lying spirit, spirit within, free spirit, angel spirit, humble spirit, vexed spirit, sleep spirit, spirit of the kings of the Medes, new spirit, spirit of the holy gods, spirit of whoredomes, heaven spirit, devil spirit, unclean spirit, dumb spirit, infirm spirit, spirit of truth, spirit of divination, spirit of holiness, spirit of bondage, spirit of adoption, spirit of the prophets, quickening spirit, spirit of mind, spirit of the mouth, seducing spirit, spirit of fear, spirit of power, spirit of love, dwelling spirit, seven spirits of God, ...

 

[Pagan]

Angels mostly appear in the Bible when they have some kind of information for delivering, sort of a cosmological Pony Express.

However, spirits also deliver information. In 1 Kings 22, while Ahab decides to go to war against Ramoth Gildead, God sends a spirit to Ahab's court to convince the king to go to war. The king takes its advice, and he dies in battle.

Bad spirit; bad spirit.

 

[food4thought]

Things like the Spirit of Jacob in Genesis 45:27. This is a common kind of spirit in the Bible such as the spirit of Sihon, the spirit of Zerubbabel, or the spirit of Marley.

I believe this is speaking of the spirit of the individual. We are soul, body, and spirit... our spirit I dead to God naturally, until we are born again by the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ. I admit to being unsure how this all worked itself out before Jesus.

Also, spirit of wisdom, familiar spirit, spirit of jealousy, evil spirit, evil spirit from the Lord, lying spirit, spirit within, free spirit, angel spirit, humble spirit, vexed spirit, sleep spirit, spirit of the kings of the Medes, new spirit, spirit of the holy gods, spirit of whoredomes, heaven spirit, devil spirit, unclean spirit, dumb spirit, infirm spirit, spirit of truth, spirit of divination, spirit of holiness, spirit of bondage, spirit of adoption, spirit of the prophets, quickening spirit, spirit of mind, spirit of the mouth, seducing spirit, spirit of fear, spirit of power, spirit of love, dwelling spirit, seven spirits of God, ...

Many of those refer to human's spirits as well, but some of them refer to higher beings like angels/fallen angels. Some would say that evil spirits of varying kinds are the spirits of dead Nephilim (the giants of Genesis 6 and other places), but I am unsure of that as well. I'm not going to go thru the list one by one... let's try a smaller group if that's what you want.

 

[Pagan]

I believe this is speaking of the spirit of the individual. We are soul, body, and spirit... our spirit I dead to God naturally, until we are born again by the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ. I admit to being unsure how this all worked itself out before Jesus.



Many of those refer to human's spirits as well, but some of them refer to higher beings like angels/fallen angels. Some would say that evil spirits of varying kinds are the spirits of dead Nephilim (the giants of Genesis 6 and other places), but I am unsure of that as well. I'm not going to go thru the list one by one... let's try a smaller group if that's what you want.

The Bible uses the word, spirit, as my spirit, your spirit, his spirit, or the spirit of af person when it refers as human personality. As I understand, the word spirit in English translates the word, breath or wind, in Hebrew or Greek.

It also uses the word, spirit, as Spirit of God, Spirit of the Lord, Holy Spirit, or Spirit when it refers to God.

One translation uses the phrase, evil spirit, when another translation uses the words, demon or devil.

Spirits represent human conditions, places, things, and groups of people.

Spirits in Christianity remind me of Pagan gods.

 

[food4thought]

Spirits in Christianity remind me of Pagan gods.

I do not think that was the intent of the authors of Scripture, nor the Author. Isaiah 44:6 sums it up pretty clearly: "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me. (Isa 44:6)

Which brings up the use of the word Elohim in the OT... it is complicated. It is used in a variety of ways, yet context must dictate to us which meaning is intended. In this case, it means God with a capitol G... the Supreme Deity, the Creator, YHWH.

Hope this helps;
Mike

 

[Pagan]

I do not think that was the intent of the authors of Scripture, nor the Author. Isaiah 44:6 sums it up pretty clearly: "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me. (Isa 44:6)

Which brings up the use of the word Elohim in the OT... it is complicated. It is used in a variety of ways, yet context must dictate to us which meaning is intended. In this case, it means God with a capitol G... the Supreme Deity, the Creator, YHWH.

Hope this helps;
Mike

Let me say it another way.

Christian spirits function like Pagan gods. Christianity has a spirit of wisdom and a spirit of war. Pagans have a god of wisdom and a god of war. Christians have angels. Pagan's have messenger gods. I understand about Christianity's monotheist theology, but I grew up in a polytheist culture, so I notice the similarity.

 

[food4thought]

Let me say it another way.

Christian spirits function like Pagan gods. Christianity has a spirit of wisdom and a spirit of war. Pagans have a god of wisdom and a god of war. Christians have angels. Pagan's have messenger gods. I understand about Christianity's monotheist theology, but I grew up in a polytheist culture, so I notice the similarity.

I understand what you are saying. Sorry if I was too preachy. I just wanted to be sure you understood the Christian perspective as well.

 

[Pagan]

I understand what you are saying. Sorry if I was too preachy. I just wanted to be sure you understood the Christian perspective as well.

And I thank you for your help. Probably I understand Christianity better than I ever have understood our family religion.

 

[Pagan]

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says that men should not cover their heads and that women should cover their heads. He says, " ... every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved."

I heard a sermon in which the preacher explained this idea about covered or uncovered heads. He said that in Antiquity, people had different ideas about human physiology. For example, they believed that the heart, instead of the brain, stored memory, wisdom, etc. They believed the brain and hair stored sperm. They believed that men with short hair had increased fertility because they had less sperm storage. They believed that women with long hair had increased fertility because they had greater sperm storage.

Paul also says, " ... a woman ought to have authority over her own head because of the angels."

I don't understand why angels should somehow influence hats or hairstyles, or do they influence fertility or what?

 

[food4thought]

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says that men should not cover their heads and that women should cover their heads. He says, " ... every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved."

I heard a sermon in which the preacher explained this idea about covered or uncovered heads. He said that in Antiquity, people had different ideas about human physiology. For example, they believed that the heart, instead of the brain, stored memory, wisdom, etc. They believed the brain and hair stored sperm. They believed that men with short hair had increased fertility because they had less sperm storage. They believed that women with long hair had increased fertility because they had greater sperm storage.

Paul also says, " ... a woman ought to have authority over her own head because of the angels."

I don't understand why angels should somehow influence hats or hairstyles, or do they influence fertility or what?

Hello again Pagan. I don't know where the pastor got his ideas about sperm storage and such, but I've never heard that before. What I understand it to be is that in ancient Jewish and Christian culture, the man was the head of the woman, and the head covering was a symbol of that. The reference to the angels is a bit uncertain, but it might have something to do with the proper order of authority in human relationships, thus giving a good testimony of proper authority structures to the angels, some of whom left their first estate and pursued human women (see Genesis 6; Jude 1:6-7 NASB).

Hope this helps;
Michael

 

[Pagan]

So, Paul may have meant, " ... a woman ought to have authority over her own head because of the angels" who "saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

That does suggest that Paul's concern about hair style must have related to fertility.

 

[food4thought]

So, Paul may have meant, " ... a woman ought to have authority over her own head because of the angels" who "saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

That does suggest that Paul's concern about hair style must have related to fertility.

Not in any direct way, I think. It had more to do with testimony than protection.

 

[Pagan]

In Acts 23:8 the Sadducees appear to take a modern view of higher creatureswhen Paul tells the Sanhedrin that the Sadducees say ... that there are neither angels nor spirits ... .

 

[food4thought]

In Acts 23:8 the Sadducees appear to take a modern view of higher creatureswhen Paul tells the Sanhedrin that the Sadducees say ... that there are neither angels nor spirits ... .

That is correct. The Sadducees also did not believe in the resurrection, which is why they were sad u see lol. Handy way to remember the beliefs of the Sadducees.

 

[Pagan]

That is correct. The Sadducees also did not believe in the resurrection, which is why they were sad u see lol. Handy way to remember the beliefs of the Sadducees.

Do we know what kind of spirits or angels Paul had in mind?

 

[food4thought]

Do we know what kind of spirits or angels Paul had in mind?

It's complicated... sometimes he was referring to the human spirit, sometimes the Holy Spirit, sometimes unclean spirits (?fallen angels?), and sometimes to good angels. A lot depends on the context of the passage, and sometimes you must infer which type of spirit he is referring to based upon what he is trying to say.

If there are some specific examples that are giving you trouble, post the reference and I'll see if I can help.

 

[Pagan]

It's complicated... sometimes he was referring to the human spirit, sometimes the Holy Spirit, sometimes unclean spirits (?fallen angels?), and sometimes to good angels. A lot depends on the context of the passage, and sometimes you must infer which type of spirit he is referring to based upon what he is trying to say.

If there are some specific examples that are giving you trouble, post the reference and I'll see if I can help.

The angels and spirits of Acts 23:8.

 

[food4thought]

The angels and spirits of Acts 28:8.

Acts 28:8?

And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and dysentery. Paul went in to him and prayed, and he laid his hands on him and healed him. (Act 28:8)

That would be the Holy Spirit working through Paul.