Higher Creatures

[ViaCrucis]

In the Eden Story, are the serpent, the tree of life, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the flaming sword, and the Cherubim called higher creatures?

Probably not. While lots of different ideas exist, two basic schools of thought exist within the historic Christian tradition: That these describe literal things, that these indicate something more figurative, symbolic, or at least non-literal.

Of these the only that probably could be described as "higher creatures" (a term that I'd probably also want clarified to understand the intended meaning) would be the cherubim, as cherubim are angelic creatures, ministering spirits which serve God.

In Christian thought the serpent in the story is often associated and identified with the devil, a view that seems to have its roots in the second temple period (c.f. the apocryphal work known as the Life of Adam and Eve), hence the Apocalypse calling Satan "the dragon".

I take the position that the story isn't intended to be literal, but I also don't subscribe necessarily to an allegorical interpretation; rather I would describe the story as mythological. Where "myth" here doesn't mean "a false story", but rather simply "story", specifically a story intended to convey important meaning. The meaning of the story is man's fall from grace and the enslavement of creation to sin and death--that is something which is true, but there was no literal talking snake, no literal trees, etc; nor do these necessarily represent allegorically specific "deeper" things; rather the story is intended to describe the problem of sin and death in which we find ourselves; and which for Christians has its healing, reconciliation, and redemption in Jesus. That sin and death are inevitable, tragic, harsh realities of our present world is undeniable, the story of the Fall bridges a theology of creation as intrinsically good (Genesis 1&2) and a creation in which people suffer, in which people and creatures die which is our experience of and in the creation. It therefore establishes part of a foundation which launches the entire narrative of redemption which moves toward Abraham, the Covenant, the Nation of Israel, the hopeful promises of the Prophets, and their fulfillment and fullness in the coming of the Messiah, Jesus, by whose suffering, death, resurrection, and coming again takes the whole created world from the world of death and suffering and into the glory of resurrection and eternal life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ChetSinger]

I haven't found any Christians who want to think of the trees and the flaming sword as creatures, but calling the serpent and the cherubim creatures must be a common thing. Also, the heavenly host does have some kind of hierarchy. Christians and people in general think of them as being higher or lower somehow. The terms higher creature and lower creature may not be common.

Hello. There was indeed a hierarchy in the Hebrew (OT) version of the heavenly host. The higher ones had authority over the lower ones, and the lower ones had duties to perform such as delivering messages. The serpent was one of the higher ones and is identified as Satan in the NT. I don't know where the cherubim fit in.

 

[Pagan]

Hello. There was indeed a hierarchy in the Hebrew (OT) version of the heavenly host. The higher ones had authority over the lower ones, and the lower ones had duties to perform such as delivering messages. The serpent was one of the higher ones and is identified as Satan in the NT. I don't know where the cherubim fit in.

I knew that Christianity and Islam claim a monotheist nature, but I didn't know about their pantheons full of angels and demons.

 

[-V-]

I knew that Christianity and Islam claim a monotheist nature, but I didn't know about their pantheons full of angels and demons.

Angels and demons don't constitute a "pantheon".

 

[ChetSinger]

I knew that Christianity and Islam claim a monotheist nature, but I didn't know about their pantheons full of angels and demons.

Imo there's a lot of confusing muck that has grown up over this subject during the past 2,000 years. I myself prefer the earliest sources such as the church fathers.

The Bible is definitely a supernatural book and various spirits do appear in it. But they appear in cultural contexts that are sometimes forgotten or ignored and thus lead to all kinds of unsupported nonsense. The focus of the Bible is always on God, not on them.

 

[Pagan]

Imo there's a lot of confusing muck that has grown up over this subject during the past 2,000 years. I myself prefer the earliest sources such as the church fathers.

The Bible is definitely a supernatural book and various spirits do appear in it. But they appear in cultural contexts that are sometimes forgotten or ignored and thus lead to all kinds of unsupported nonsense. The focus of the Bible is always on God, not on them.

Does the term, Spirit of God, in Genesis 1:2 qualify as a higher creature?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Does the term, Spirit of God, in Genesis 1:2 qualify as a higher creature?

In Christian teaching the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit, the Spirit of God, etc) is Himself God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ChetSinger]

Does the term, Spirit of God, in Genesis 1:2 qualify as a higher creature?

Yes, the highest. That's God himself.

 

[-V-]

Does the term, Spirit of God, in Genesis 1:2 qualify as a higher creature?

It is God. But God is not a "creature". A creature is something created, which God is not.

 

[Pagan]

Seems to me that sin would not normally be a creature, but in Genesis 4:7 it crouches and desires as if it has an animate nature.

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.

One of my Christian friends thinks that instead of sin crouching it should translate as a demon crouching, but as near as I can tell, no publishers translate it that way.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Seems to me that sin would not normally be a creature, but in Genesis 4:7 it crouches and desires as if it has an animate nature.

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.

One of my Christian friends thinks that instead of sin crouching it should translate as a demon crouching, but as near as I can tell, no publishers translate it that way.

It's speaking metaphorically.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Pagan]

It's speaking metaphorically.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, a personified idea.

Something like the flaming sword in Genesis 3:24, which has at least one animate ability,

"... a flaming sword which turned every way ... ."

 

[-V-]

Yes, a personified idea.

Something like the flaming sword in Genesis 3:24, which has at least one animate ability,

"... a flaming sword which turned every way ... ."

No. God sent an angel to stop people from approaching the tree of life. That isn't a metaphor. It's not a "personified idea".

 

[Pagan]

No. God sent an angel to stop people from approaching the tree of life. That isn't a metaphor. It's not a "personified idea".

Yes, I suppose that is right. A sin, which crouches and desires, would be a personified idea. An animate sword would be a personified thing.

 

[-V-]

Yes, I suppose that is right. A sin, which crouches and desires, would be a personified idea. An animate sword would be a personified thing.

I don't think you're reading the passage correctly. It's not an "animate sword". It's an angel with a sword.
Genesis 3:24

 

[Pagan]

Genesis 6:4 mentions two kinds of higher creatures, Nephilim and sons of God. Traditions about them vary. In one tradition the sons of God are angels, and Nephilim are giants, which are the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

In the Eden Story, are the serpent, the tree of life, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the flaming sword, and the Cherubim called higher creatures?

In the Apocrypha, Adam and Eve were baby goddess level before the fall, the serpent was Azazel's controlled avatar, and Azazel was one of the chief leaders of the rebellion against God to make creation in their image - using man as the spruce for procreation.

 

[ChetSinger]

Genesis 6:4 mentions two kinds of higher creatures, Nephilim and sons of God. Traditions about them vary. In one tradition the sons of God are angels, and Nephilim are giants, which are the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men.

That was the most common tradition during the time of Christianity's origin. It can be found in the writings of early church fathers and also in secular sources such as Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews. References to it even seem to appear in the New Testament, in 2 Peter and in Jude. Some prominent theologians of the Protestant Reformation rejected it but recent studies of early sources such as Ugarit and Sumer are bringing it back into vogue.

In this tradition the Nephilim became demons when they died. While they were men, they were denied the grave due to their mixed parentage and were forced to wander the earth until judgment.

 

[Pagan]

Does "the power of the Spirit" in Numbers 11:17 and Numbers 11:25 qualify as a higher creature?

 

[Pagan]

In Genesis 16, an angel talks to Ishmael's mother, Hagar, about her relationship with Sarai. This is the first time the Bible uses the word, angel; but it must be the third time the Bible talks about angels because Cherubim and sons of God are also called angels. Maybe some of the various spirits could also be angels.