Hi. My Name is......

[Garnet2727]

Thanks for the kind words. This a lot like taking your clothes off in public. You just don't know how people will react. I have told my story from the podium several times in A.A. meetings. I was sober a long time before I would tell the whole truth about things. Man, I have had strange reactions to it. I have been called a shameless liar. By perfect strangers! Some people have thanked me and told me about their own traumas.
I wish I knew how to paste the stuff in the forum so that it retained the paragraph structure and spacing. And by the way, I'm a hunt and peck typist and thank God for spellchek.
I have done some work on the first chapter and will post what I have done soon as I clean it up.
JIM

Jim,

One part of my job is to edit documents often written by people for whom English is a second language. I would happily edit your writing. Not for content, I wouldn't change a word. I would just edit spelling, grammar and punctuation. Trust me, what you write cannot be harder to understand than what I deal with on a daily basis.

I'm serious about this. If you like, PM me. I can do a chapter at a time.

Oh, I guess we need to talk about cost. Lessee...that would be nothing.

 

[mustang_94]

Jim,

One part of my job is to edit documents often written by people for whom English is a second language. I would happily edit your writing. Not for content, I wouldn't change a word. I would just edit spelling, grammar and punctuation. Trust me, what you write cannot be harder to understand than what I deal with on a daily basis.

I'm serious about this. If you like, PM me. I can do a chapter at a time.

Oh, I guess we need to talk about cost. Lessee...that would be nothing.

That is so kind of you to offer to help. Do you think you could help me take imaginary people and assign events in my life to them? LOL. I can do "me" pretty good but the others are harder.

 

[BigToe]

Hey everyone. I'm BigToe and I have several family members who are addicts/alcoholics.

My biggest struggle has been my mother, who is the only one in recovery. She has two years and for that I am very proud of her as I cannot imagine it was an easy choice or road to travel. The largest inner conflict is figuring out where the line is between being the supportive daughter for her and protecting myself. Most of our family is everything but supportive of her program and it upsets me a great deal. I see how far she has come, how much healthier she is, how much happier she is (in the big picture), and that she is actually taking care of herself for the first time in her life. Seeing her make all these changes for herself is beautiful and I can't imaging even thinking of doing some things other family members have done to her (like pinning her down and holding a bottle to her mouth in an attempt to make her drink).

Anyway, I didn't see a similar thread for friends and family members of alcoholics, so I posted in here. I hope you don't mind, but if you are uncomfortable with my posting here I completely understand. Should anyone desire I not post in this thread, just let me know and I will most certainly respect that.

 

[Garnet2727]

That is so kind of you to offer to help. Do you think you could help me take imaginary people and assign events in my life to them? LOL. I can do "me" pretty good but the others are harder.

*chuckle* For that one, you're on your own. I'm not very creative these days.

 

[Garnet2727]

BT,

Someone in your family held your mother down and tried to make her drink???????



I'm afraid I don't have much advice for you. Something like that in my family would result in a severe rear end kicking.

 

[LoG]

The largest inner conflict is figuring out where the line is between being the supportive daughter for her and protecting myself. Most of our family is everything but supportive of her program and it upsets me a great deal.

When the previously irresponsible alcoholic starts to recover mentally, emotionally and spiritually, it affects the delicate balance of the family dynamics. There is often a resistance by other members to the subtle changes that are occuring as the recovering alcoholic asserts their proper place in the family.

This is what happened with me when I started to work a program. Some of my family members resented the changes they saw in me and tried in different ways to me push me back into the position I was in before. There were a host of different reasons for this as I discovered while attending ACOA (Adult Childeren of Alcoholics) meetings and reading their material.

Being raised in an alcoholic home is a real challenge even in adulthood. Determining the line between dysfunctional and healthy behaviours is difficult because it wasn't learned as a child when it should have been. A parent cannot teach the child what they themselves haven't learned.
I learned a lot in determining that line when I started to look at ACOA and Co-dependecy material. It saved my sanity.

ps. If you wish to discuss this further you could post a new thread in this section of the forum. It would be a good idea for a sub-section imo.

 

[BigToe]

BT,

Someone in your family held your mother down and tried to make her drink???????



I'm afraid I don't have much advice for you. Something like that in my family would result in a severe rear end kicking.

When the previously irresponsible alcoholic starts to recover mentally, emotionally and spiritually, it affects the delicate balance of the family dynamics. There is often a resistance by other members to the subtle changes that are occuring as the recovering alcoholic asserts their proper place in the family.

Yeah, I've noticed that and I think it is sad. It has never made sense to me why people aren't more supportive of positive changes. I suppose it is something I will never understand.

ps. If you wish to discuss this further you could post a new thread in this section of the forum. It would be a good idea for a sub-section imo.

You mean a similar thread to this one for friends and families of addicts and alcoholics?

 

[justanobserver]

Hey everyone. I'm BigToe and I have several family members who are addicts/alcoholics.

My biggest struggle has been my mother, who is the only one in recovery. She has two years and for that I am very proud of her as I cannot imagine it was an easy choice or road to travel. The largest inner conflict is figuring out where the line is between being the supportive daughter for her and protecting myself. Most of our family is everything but supportive of her program and it upsets me a great deal. I see how far she has come, how much healthier she is, how much happier she is (in the big picture), and that she is actually taking care of herself for the first time in her life. Seeing her make all these changes for herself is beautiful and I can't imaging even thinking of doing some things other family members have done to her (like pinning her down and holding a bottle to her mouth in an attempt to make her drink).

Anyway, I didn't see a similar thread for friends and family members of alcoholics, so I posted in here. I hope you don't mind, but if you are uncomfortable with my posting here I completely understand. Should anyone desire I not post in this thread, just let me know and I will most certainly respect that.

Big Toe!!!!!!! Hey you! havent seen you in a while but I havent been to the Big Chill in GA in a while either.

Please post anytime you want. You are more than welcome here. I remember your thread you had before here in recovery and as far as I am concerned (seein's that I is the OP...), you can talk and share here all you want/need/desire/vent/ponder/cry/gripe/support/need/give/etc/etc.

there are good folks that post here and they really do care. There may be a day or three where no one posts and other days where everyone posts. welcome to the thread!

 

[BigToe]

Big Toe!!!!!!! Hey you! havent seen you in a while but I havent been to the Big Chill in GA in a while either.

Please post anytime you want. You are more than welcome here. I remember your thread you had before here in recovery and as far as I am concerned (seein's that I is the OP...), you can talk and share here all you want/need/desire/vent/ponder/cry/gripe/support/need/give/etc/etc.

there are good folks that post here and they really do care. There may be a day or three where no one posts and other days where everyone posts. welcome to the thread!

It's good to see you around too. I've missed you! *hug* and *snuggles*

 

[justanobserver]

just stickin my head in the door and saying howdies to all. just going thru the stuff I been going thru lately and kinda layin back some trying to recharge my mental and emtional batteries.

But I do cruise (well. ok, lurk) thru reading the posts and wondering how everyone is doing and wishing everyone the best and those that havent been here for a while that they are doing well.

this thread is probably the closest to something I was thinkiing about at work today - how cool it would be if we all were at the same AA meeting. and like at the meetings, somedays you want to share and somedays you just dont got it in you but you at least sit in the back and listen. thats kinda what I been doing lately.

you are all really truly on my mind everyday. I do care and wonder how each is doing and how each's day is going.

if nothing else, it gets my mind of my day....

 

[Garnet2727]

I think we all need to get together for a BBQ with tall glasses of iced tea and fresh lemonade.

 

[PrairieGurl]

just stickin my head in the door and saying howdies to all. just going thru the stuff I been going thru lately and kinda layin back some trying to recharge my mental and emtional batteries.

But I do cruise (well. ok, lurk) thru reading the posts and wondering how everyone is doing and wishing everyone the best and those that havent been here for a while that they are doing well.

this thread is probably the closest to something I was thinkiing about at work today - how cool it would be if we all were at the same AA meeting. and like at the meetings, somedays you want to share and somedays you just dont got it in you but you at least sit in the back and listen. thats kinda what I been doing lately.

you are all really truly on my mind everyday. I do care and wonder how each is doing and how each's day is going.

if nothing else, it gets my mind of my day....

And in keeping with your post Norm,

I'll pass today thanks.

Thanks for caring...it shows.

 

[PrairieGurl]

I think we all need to get together for a BBQ with tall glasses of iced tea and fresh lemonade.

Anything I can bring Garnet?

 

[mustang_94]

When the previously irresponsible alcoholic starts to recover mentally, emotionally and spiritually, it affects the delicate balance of the family dynamics. There is often a resistance by other members to the subtle changes that are occuring as the recovering alcoholic asserts their proper place in the family.

This is what happened with me when I started to work a program. Some of my family members resented the changes they saw in me and tried in different ways to me push me back into the position I was in before. There were a host of different reasons for this as I discovered while attending ACOA (Adult Childeren of Alcoholics) meetings and reading their material.

Being raised in an alcoholic home is a real challenge even in adulthood. Determining the line between dysfunctional and healthy behaviours is difficult because it wasn't learned as a child when it should have been. A parent cannot teach the child what they themselves haven't learned.
I learned a lot in determining that line when I started to look at ACOA and Co-dependecy material. It saved my sanity.

ps. If you wish to discuss this further you could post a new thread in this section of the forum. It would be a good idea for a sub-section imo.

Excellent post my brother !!

 

[mustang_94]

I think we all need to get together for a BBQ with tall glasses of iced tea and fresh lemonade.

I wanna come too !!! Can anyone send me a plane ticket? I've gone broke traveling back and forth to Fla. for family illness and funerals. Good to hear fom you Norm. Hang in there, this too will pass. It came, so that it could pass. No matter how it turns out, you'll be stronger and wiser if you don't give up and you don't give in.

 

[justanobserver]

I wanna come too !!! Can anyone send me a plane ticket? I've gone broke traveling back and forth to Fla. for family illness and funerals. Good to hear fom you Norm. Hang in there, this too will pass. It came, so that it could pass. No matter how it turns out, you'll be stronger and wiser if you don't give up and you don't give in.

Hey. thanks for the sentiments. yeah, I know deep down this all will passs at some point or another. everything passes sooner or later, its the "while your in it" phase that is or can be hard at times.

sometimes I wish that there was a way to post in true anonymity here - so a thread about personal guilt, letting it go, personal condemnation can be discussed. But since there aint, then here it is:

sometimes its so overwhelming and I am guilty of putting my son out of my mind cause i just cant handle the pain at times to think of my son sitting alone in a jail cell waiting on teh DA and courts to quit playing with his life and sentence and get it over so after a while he can start his life over. then I feel guilty cause I put my son out of my thoughts cause it hurt so bad to think of him where he is at! viscious circle and at times I think the tail wags the dog with me.

But hurts the most is that as a dad, I cannot help him or defend him or do the things I failed as a dad when he was younger and needed a dad. I was a worthless peice of garbage as a dad to my kids. I didnt abuse them but i was never home (army has a way of sending you to other places) and when I was home, i was passed out in a drunken stupor.

so when my kids needed a father, he wasnt there for them. Now, I got a son siting in jail that might not have been there if i was there for him when he was younger and growing.

Now I am sober and cant help - too little too late.

so at what point do we stop flailing ourselves alive over our past sins? At what point do we forgive ourselves, accept the forgiveness of those we have asked and it was given and how can we accept it without feeling guilty of letting go of that past which cause everyine you love so much pain?

I have said I am sorry to my 4 kids a hunf\dred times and I already know I will say it to them a hundred more. They have forgiven me a hundred times and will forgive me a hundred more.

Is it wrong to keep feeling the need to say I am sorry for the wasted years I wasnt a good dad?

 

[BigToe]

I think that's a sign that you are truly sorry. My mom hasn't once told me she is sorry for anything. The only thing she really says is that she's learned to put herself first. It's interesting because while it may indeed be something she is learning to do, from my sister's and my perspective it is all she has ever done. I would *love* to hear her just admit that she messed up. I don't need her to say she's sorry, nor do I ever expect to hear it. I would like to hear her admission of messing up as a sort of affirmation to myself. And maybe it will take her a few years to get to that point; maybe she will never reach that point.

But I don't see how your having messed up in the past can be responsible for what is happening to your son right now. Maybe things would have been different, but maybe not. Everyone has to make choices as to how they want to behave and what they want to do, and that includes a choice to do something wrong.

And feeling guilt about putting something out of your mind because it is painful seems counterproductive. It hurts to think about so of course you aren't going to want to think about it. It doesn't make you a poor father to not let it consume you. I've too often let my friends and family's problems consume me to the point I neglected myself. And you and I both know neglecting ourselves, not taking care of ourselves, is not an option.

*hugs*

 

[LoG]

YESTERDAY....
TODAY and TOMORROW

There are two days in every week about which we should not worry, two days which should be kept free from fear and apprehension.

One of these days is YESTERDAY with its mistakes and cares, its faults and blunders, its aches and pains. YESTERDAY has passed forever beyond our control.

All the money in the world cannot bring back YESTERDAY. We cannot undo a single act we performed; we cannot erase a single word we said. YESTERDAY is gone.

The other day we should not worry about is TOMORROW with its possible adversities, its burdens, its large promise and poor performance. TOMORROW is also beyond our immediate control.

TOMORROW'S sun will rise, either in splendor or behind a mask of clouds - but it will rise. Until it does, we have no stake in TOMORROW, for it is as yet unborn.

This leaves only one day - TODAY - Any man can fight the battles of just one day. It is only when you and I add the burdens of those two awful eternities – YESTERDAY and TOMORROW that we break down.

It is not the experience of TODAY that drives men mad - it is remorse or bitterness for something which happened YESTERDAY and the dread of what TOMORROW may bring.

Let us, therefore, live but one day at a time.

 

[LoG]

so at what point do we stop flailing ourselves alive over our past sins? At what point do we forgive ourselves, accept the forgiveness of those we have asked and it was given and how can we accept it without feeling guilty of letting go of that past which cause everyine you love so much pain?

Self-condemnation I have learned is another aspect of self that I need to let go of. It is a kissing cousin to self-pity and has its roots in inverse pride. Its cure is humility, not humiliation. Although not an AA site, I found an interesting article on self-pity here.
For myself I came to realize that self-condemnation was because my Higher Power wasn't higher then me. He may have forgiven me but I didn't forgive myself. When I put God in His rightful place and then had faith that He had forgiven me, the forgiveness from both others and myself, became secondary. This came as a result of working the AA Steps.

I have said I am sorry to my 4 kids a hunf\dred times and I already know I will say it to them a hundred more. They have forgiven me a hundred times and will forgive me a hundred more.

Is it wrong to keep feeling the need to say I am sorry for the wasted years I wasnt a good dad?

Step 8 & 9 are about making amends, not just saying I am sorry. For me that meant a change in lifestyle and changes in relations with others.
Here is a quote from the Big Book on making amends:

"There may be some wrongs we can never fully right. We don't worry about them if we can honestly say to ourselves that we would right them if we could. Some people cannot be seen - we send them an honest letter. And there may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases. But we don't delay if it can be avoided. We should be sensible, tactful, considerate and humble without being servile or scraping. As God's people we stand on our feet; we don't crawl before anyone." page 83.

I think we all go through this stage of our development, I know I did. But as long as I continue on the journey I will overcome that which stands between me and being happy, joyous and free.

 

[Garnet2727]

Anything I can bring Garnet?

Um...yeah! How about dessert? Hubby'll smoke a brisket and some ribs. I think I can do a salad without messing it up to bad.