Hi guys

[Darren1980]

Hello there Christians.
My name is Darren and I live in the west of Ireland. This might sound a little out there. I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist and an internet troll, hold your horses, I'm not here to offend anyone. I take great pleasure educating other atheists and people of other religions about Christianity, I'm pretty good at it and they call me a troll. I'm hoping you won't mind me adding a question to my introduction. When debating Christianity I always get stumped on Matthew 5:17-20 I just can't really grasp it no matter how many times I read it. What exactly is the meaning of it? I'm hoping someone could address it in layman's terms. Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hello there Christians.
My name is Darren and I live in the west of Ireland. This might sound a little out there. I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist and an internet troll, hold your horses, I'm not here to offend anyone. I take great pleasure educating other atheists and people of other religions about Christianity, I'm pretty good at it and they call me a troll. I'm hoping you won't mind me adding a question to my introduction. When debating Christianity I always get stumped on Matthew 5:17-20 I just can't really grasp it no matter how many times I read it. What exactly is the meaning of it? I'm hoping someone could address it in layman's terms. Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

Welcome! Jesus Christ of Nazareth was mad and upset. The Jews were making a profit from His Fathers house. That earthy temple no longer exists.
Be blessed.

 

[Michie]

Welcome.

The Deeper Meaning of the Story of Jesus and the Moneychangers

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Why does Matthew 5:17-20 stump you? To the Christian, it shows that Jesus did not come to do away with the law, i.e. to say it was no longer valid, rather He came to fulfill what was written in the scriptures that came before him.

The animal sacrifices in the law pointed to the need for a sacrifice to take away sin. We see in Isaiah written 700 years before Christ, that this sacrifice would be a man. This man was Jesus.

Isa 53:1-12 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And they made His grave with the wicked—But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Hello there Christians.
My name is Darren and I live in the west of Ireland. This might sound a little out there. I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist and an internet troll, hold your horses, I'm not here to offend anyone. I take great pleasure educating other atheists and people of other religions about Christianity, I'm pretty good at it and they call me a troll. I'm hoping you won't mind me adding a question to my introduction. When debating Christianity I always get stumped on Matthew 5:17-20 I just can't really grasp it no matter how many times I read it. What exactly is the meaning of it? I'm hoping someone could address it in layman's terms. Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

This is Jesus destroying any hope that legalism will save them.
Matthew 5:
7 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He puts the last nail in the coffin of legalists with:

Matthew 5:
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

Nobody is going to achieve this righteousness.
But then this was not something He intended for us to accomplish. They were given to us to fail. We were to see that we needed to be saved by faith, not by works.

This is Jesus teaching what Paul wrote in Romans 3

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[Tigger45]

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Welcome to the forum in Jesus name.

 

[Sketcher]

Hello there Christians.
My name is Darren and I live in the west of Ireland. This might sound a little out there. I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist and an internet troll, hold your horses, I'm not here to offend anyone. I take great pleasure educating other atheists and people of other religions about Christianity, I'm pretty good at it and they call me a troll.

Hello and welcome.

I'm hoping you won't mind me adding a question to my introduction. When debating Christianity I always get stumped on Matthew 5:17-20 I just can't really grasp it no matter how many times I read it. What exactly is the meaning of it? I'm hoping someone could address it in layman's terms. Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

Jesus' Jewish audience, either through misunderstanding, or perhaps (in the case of certain Pharisees) malfeasance, may have concluded that he was abolishing parts of the Law by his teachings during his earthly ministry. Jesus was denying that, and charging that the Pharisees themselves, the religious elites who made the extra rules around the Law, were failing to keep the Law.

People today often get confused because they see Christians not keeping the Law. Most Christians however, are not of Jewish birth, and were therefore never required to keep the Law. According to Jewish teachings which derive this understanding from the Torah itself, all of mankind has a few rules to follow, and Jews have many rules - the Law - to follow. There is overlap. Gentile Christians do have teachings in the NT that we must follow, and there are certain things we can take from the OT for edification, but we were never under the whole Law.

 

[Darren1980]

So the Jewish were tied to the old law, Jesus fulfilled it, but "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." So following Christ makes you least in heaven? What is the point of Jesus fulfilling laws if all laws should be abided by, shouldn't we all follow the old law? I was asked to explain it but I really can't, and I can't find the answer online.

 

[Follower of the Holy Word]

So the Jewish were tied to the old law, Jesus fulfilled it, but "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." So following Christ makes you least in heaven? What is the point of Jesus fulfilling laws if all laws should be abided by, shouldn't we all follow the old law? I was asked to explain it but I really can't, and I can't find the answer online.

No, Christ says he came not to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. This means that Jesus died to cover the parts of the law we transgress.

But this also means that Jesus wants us to abide by the law, because the law is the will of the Father Jehovah-Jireh. If we have true love for Jesus, we would want to. Jesus is The Holy Word of God, The Word made flesh. He cannot go against Jehovah God. Read about true love in 1 Corinthians 13.

A lot of people do not realize Jesus is the old testament as well as the new testament. Jesus said that before Abraham was, I am, meaning Jesus was before the world. And Jesus is one with the Father. Hope this helps. God bless you.

 

[Darren1980]

Galatians 3:23-25. 23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
So we are no longer under the law, but we are under the law according to Matthew 5:19.

 

[Follower of the Holy Word]

Galatians 3:23-25. 23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
So we are no longer under the law, but we are under the law according to Matthew 5:19.

Matthew 5: 19 says in the kingdom of heaven (after salvation and entry into heaven). Those who are saved will make it to heaven, but those who were saved that teach against the law will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven in the afterlife. And those who teach to follow the law will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Darren1980]

Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
I really can't understand how Jesus is relevant to, or what he has done regarding the laws, and I have to abandon all discussions if it's brought up. I've read the verses, I've read opinions and watched several videos but there's no clarity.

 

[Follower of the Holy Word]

Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
I really can't understand how Jesus is relevant to, or what he has done regarding the laws, and I have to abandon all discussions if it's brought up. I've read the verses, I've read opinions and watched several videos but there's no clarity.

Christ is exactly that. The end of the law. But as I said, Jesus cannot go against Jehovah. Christ would rather you follow the law.

Matthew 12: 50

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 

[Darren1980]

So Christ didn't come to abolish the law, but Christ is the abolishment of the law, and we've to follow the law? How am I supposed to explain that without being laughed at? It doesn't make an iota of sense. I'd like it to make sense so I had an answer, but it's the most confusing part of Christianity that I've read. I am grateful that you guys and girls are trying to explain.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

John 3:16 says it all.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that all who believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Follower of the Holy Word]

So Christ didn't come to abolish the law, but Christ is the abolishment of the law, and we've to follow the law? How am I supposed to explain that without being laughed at? It doesn't make an iota of sense. I'd like it to make sense so I had an answer, but it's the most confusing part of Christianity that I've read. I am grateful that you guys and girls are trying to explain.

Jesus would rather you follow the law. Just as scripture says Matthew 5: 17-18

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus came to fulfil the law, simple as that, when we break the law Jesus is our lawyer via His blood. But Jesus wants us to follow the law, because that is the will of his Father Jehovah-Jireh, and because it is the right thing to do. That is all there is to it. You're making it much more complicated than it is. God bless you.

 

[Darren1980]

I'm making it more complicated than it is? I signed up to try figure it out as I find the text complicated, and I haven't received an answer. The atheists have my number on this one.

 

[Follower of the Holy Word]

I'm making it more complicated than it is? I signed up to try figure it out as I find the text complicated, and I haven't received an answer. The atheists have my number on this one.

Think of it like a court case. Jesus is the lawyer on your side. Do you think Jesus would want to argue in defense of 1,000,000 offenses, or a billion? This is why Jesus fulfills the law, but would rather you follow the law, because it is simply the right thing to do.

 

[Darren1980]

So why do Christians need the new testament? The old law stands. You can break laws but you'll be least in heaven with the help of your lawyer/Jesus but if we follow the law we'll be greatest in heaven. What purpose does Jesus serve? If we stick to the old testament we'll be fine.