Hi friends

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Thank you for your answer!

Not a problem Nancy.

i find Rand especially troubling. Not because she's any worse than any other person, but because her view are so close to the truth that they make the deception hard to find.

Right now Rand's work is finding a resurgence due in part to Ron Paul's campaign back in 2008 and the Tea Parties presently going on...Incidentally, Rand Paul, son of Ron Paul and currently seeking the Republican nomination for US Senate for Kentucky is NOT named after Ayn Rand. His name is actually Randall.

i take comfort in the fact that Ayn Rand despised Libertarians. That's ok, many of us despised that old hedonist witch too.

Like Steve Allen*, when Rand spoke of Morality, she spoke nonsense from her atheistic perspective. There is, as C. S. Lewis pointed out in The Abolition of Man no way to get from the Indicative (THIS is beneficial) to the Imperative (DO THIS!) without a Law Giver.

Even to speak of the rights of man is nonsense from Rand's atheistic perspective. Without the existence of God, by what basis does one make man a unique creature with rights? Aside from the intelligent use of force, none at all. All Rand manages to do is confirm Mao's statement that power comes from the barrel of a gun. If another creature comes along that can use superior force, then where are "the rights of man"?

The problem is never the bottle that is LABELED as poison. The problem is the bottle that has poisonous ingredients on that contents label that my eyes won't let me read any more. Ayn Rand is that second bottle.

*i have read that shortly before his fatal automobile accident, Allen converted to Christianity and became a Presbyterian. i have no way of verifying this assertion.

 

[AndOne]

Interesting discussion on Rand (sorry Cyg) - I remember when I was in my early 20s and just went crazy reading her stuff. After awhile though - I wrote her off. Even thouh I wasn't a Christian at the time I just couldn't come to terms with her atheism and ultimately "shurgged" her works off as being hypicritical and self-indulgent.

My wife had an uncle (passed away now) who was a Rand worshipper. He and his friends lived their lives by Rand's philolsophy - it was amazing to me to see such staunch atheists involved in the worship of this false god...

 

[edie19]

Too many abbreviations Edie. What in the world is 'LOA'?

Main point: You have to be careful with Ayn Rand. She was by no means a 'nice' person (no big deal, neither am i as those who have met me can tell you). Objectivism, Rand's socio/economic doctrine is built on many false premises.

Rand's main inconsistency is that without God, there is no such thing as 'rights', individual or group, so she speaks nonsense from her atheistic perspective (even though her reasoning process is solid, her presuppositions are wrong).

For those who believe that rights are God-given, i believe that Libertarianism is probably the most biblically consistent view that exists*, acknowledging and compensating for man being totally depraved, yet also demonstrating the legitimacy and need of human government in a few areas of society.

*Yes, i acknowledge that there are differences of opinion on this board, and even "Christian Libertarianism" has problems due to it being derived by fallen human beings. Most consistent does NOT equal perfectly consistent.

LOA = leave of absence (from work specifically)

Please understand I am not criticizing but only curious as to why a believer would desire to read the works of an atheist?

I'm intending to read Atlas Shrugged because of some of Rand's political views (particularly individual rights, capitalism) - a few of the things she wrote about in the 50's are being seen in the U.S. today. I'm expecting that I won't be overly enthralled with her now because many of her views will be too extreme for me.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

LOA = leave of absence (from work specifically)



I'm intending to read Atlas Shrugged because of some of Rand's political views (particularly individual rights, capitalism) - a few of the things she wrote about in the 50's are being seen in the U.S. today. I'm expecting that I won't be overly enthralled with her now because many of her views will be too extreme for me.

Lots of that goes across religious divides. With some differences, you'll find many of those political views in Robert Taft, Ezra Taft Benson (former Sec. Ag under Eisenhower and past president of the LDS), Ron Paul, the von Mises institute and so on.

Rand despised Libertarianism. In fact Rand despised anybody and everybody who did not agree 100% with her 100% of the time. She was a remarkably intolerant person in her interpersonal dealings (not to mention stealing somebody else's husband...24 years younger than she, while married herself).

There are lots of beneficial things in Atlas Shrugged. Just be aware of who is really talking.

 

[cygnusx1]

Interesting discussion on Rand (sorry Cyg) - I remember when I was in my early 20s and just went crazy reading her stuff. After awhile though - I wrote her off. Even thouh I wasn't a Christian at the time I just couldn't come to terms with her atheism and ultimately "shurgged" her works off as being hypicritical and self-indulgent.

My wife had an uncle (passed away now) who was a Rand worshipper. He and his friends lived their lives by Rand's philolsophy - it was amazing to me to see such staunch atheists involved in the worship of this false god...

2112

 

[AndOne]

2112

 

[cygnusx1]

I knew you would respond bro

"I lie awake, staring out at the bleakness of Megadon. City and sky become one, merging into a single plane, a vast sea of unbroken grey. The Twin Moons, just two pale orbs as they trace their way across the steely sky. I used to think I had a pretty good life here, just plugging into my machine for the day, then watching Templevision or reading a Temple Paper in the evening.

"My friend Jon always said it was nicer here than under the atmospheric domes of the Outer Planets. We have had peace since 2062, when the surviving planets were banded together under the Red Star of the Solar Federation. The less fortunate gave us a few new moons.
I believed what I was told. I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..." N P

 

[McWilliams]

Hey Cyg, speaking of Jon, where is he? Anyone heard from him or know where he is or what he is doing now? He is missed here!! Sharp wits, you fellas!!

 

[cygnusx1]

Hey Cyg, speaking of Jon, where is he? Anyone heard from him or know where he is or what he is doing now? He is missed here!! Sharp wits, you fellas!!

Hiya sister

I haven't seen him post in ages .

quite a few regulars don't seem to post anymore , I am concerned about Bill .

 

[McWilliams]

I know this thread jumped track but due to the entrance of Ayn Rand into the discussion I noticed The Fountainhead would be on TV and as I'd never read or watched any of Rands material in all my years I decided to watch it! Amazing movie and I was totally captivated by the characters and the plot as well! I could see the atheism forcefully exhibited in all and yet the strength of Roark all the while both repelled me and held me fast in some admiration. All of it portrayed the 'objectivism' Rand promoted as a philosophy of life but with such glaring selfishness that I'm amazed that so many would hold and follow her off into such nether lands of unbelief!
I usually am most reluctant to feed my mind on such but I am almost shamed to admit at how much I enjoyed it!
Oh my, back to the puritans................

 

[VCViking]

Here is a list of books I just purchased over the last several weeks:


The Devoted Life: An Invitation To The Puritan Classics

Valley of Vision: A collection of Puritan Prayers & Devotions

Pilgrims and Puritans: 1620-1676 Drama of American History (for thr kids)

A Quest for Godliness: The Puritan Vision of the Christian Life - J. I. Packer

One Heartbeat Away: Your Journey into Eternity - Mark Cahill

Autobiogaphy of George Muller

Foxes Book of Martyrs

Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Righteousness: A Study in Romans by Ray Comfort

Evolution a Fairy Tale for Grownups - Ray Comfort

 

[McWilliams]

Regarding books on George Mueller, the very best ever is George Mueller of Bristol by A.T. Pierson. I really loved that book and was so inspired by it as well!