Hesychasm

[Joni]

What do you think of Hesychasm, The Jesus Prayer and the experience of God's energies?

http://www.byzantinefranciscans.org/prayer.htm

 

[CopticOrthodox]

If one can train themselves to have "the Jesus prayer" constantly running through thier heads, then it's very hard to continue sinning, and it follows the Biblical commandment to pray at all times. We're supposed to be aware of God at all times and to live for Him, not just to pray at certain times & leave Him behind after that, and this prayer seems to be a good way to do that, although it's not my style.

Did you have other aspects of St. Gregory's spirituality in mind though other than just the Jesus Prayer? That seems to be all that page talks about unless I read it too quickly.

 

[Joni]

This particular page was about Jesus Prayer, I read other pages about Hasychasm, it seemed everything was based on the experience of God's energies through the prayer and breathing. Part of it was from Aristotel's theory I believe about the essense and energy of God. What are you referring to, have you read something other than that?

 

[Reader Nilus]

So Joni who told you Mysticism was bad, who told you that icons were bad, and that calling on the saints and the Blessed Theotokos are bad? I would think that as a no name evangelical understanding St Gregory Palamas would almost be impossible, let alone making a statement about him.
According to your teachers now , why do they say mysticism is bad?
Jeff the Finn

 

[Joni]

What about Commandment not to waship idols/images?

 

[Philip]

What about Commandment not to waship idols/images? Do you know in Estern Orthodox they pray and bow to the icons?

Seeing as the people with whom you are discussing are Orthodox, we are quite aware that we pray with icons. We do not, however, pray to an icon. Any honor shown to an icon, such as kissing or bowing, is directed to the person represented in the icon, not the icon itself.

We do not worship icons. We do not worship the Saints.

 

[Maximus]

Joni -

No offense, but until you resolve your very basic objections to Orthodox Christianity, there is no way you will understand St. Gregory Palamas on anything other than an intellectual level.

Remember that the Old Testament prohibition of idol worship was just that: a commandment against worshiping idols in place of God. It was not a command that forbade the use of all religious art and symbols.

I do not have the Bible references handy, but look at the instructions for the making of the curtains that stood before the Holy of Holies. There were images of the Cherubim on them. Recall also the winged Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant and the brazen serpent the Lord commanded Moses to make in the Wilderness, which the children of Israel were instructed to look upon in order to be healed.

Were those things idols?

The Orthodox Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. She has preserved the Apostolic Tradition unchanged. Her practices, including the making of icons and addressing prayers to the saints, have come down to us by word-of-mouth and in writing from Jesus Himself and His Apostles. In fact, St. Luke was the first iconographer of the Church.

We do not worship icons or the saints.

Icons are aids to religious devotion and can and have been used by God in a miraculous way. They are not idols.

We ask the saints to pray for us and we also honor them for their lives of selfless dedication to the Lord. They are our elder brothers and sisters in Christ and our examples.

 

[Philip]

I do not have the Bible references handy, but look at the instructions for the making of the curtains that stood before the Holy of Holies. There were images of the Cherubim on them. Recall also the winged Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant and the brazen serpent the Lord commanded Moses to make in the Wilderness, which the children of Israel were instructed to look upon in order to be healed.

The Icon FAQ has the Scriptural references as well as much more info.

Joni,

Do you object to child kissing a telephone while speaking with a grandparent? What about leaving flowers at the grave of a loved one? Placing flowers in a church in remembrence of some event?

 

[Reader Nilus]

The Fathers are quite clear that no should practice the Jesus Prayer outside of being in Communion with the Church and under the guidence of a Spiritual Director who has personal experience. Hesychasm, can only be understood in light of the Orthodox Tradition and not outside of it, it is a lived experience. The breathing exercises that are found with it are very dangerous and they maybe used on the Holy Mountain if at all, I know that St Theophan down plays them.
Jeff the Finn