Hesitation is crushing me

[Dulcie]

In 2022 I found the band Hanson, and discovered Zac is a deacon in the orthodox church (forget which jurisdiction). One day the thought occurred to me "all this time you've been running from orthodoxy", as a cradle catholic heterdox convert it was not a welcome thought. Offensive as it was, I knew the drill and curiously followed where this thought was taking me, having experienced this sort of thing a few times before. A word from God or deeper instincts, it's never failed me so far.

Since then I've been a seeker and in 2023 I decided I want to visit an orthodox church. I bought some orthodox books from a nearby monastery and... I still haven't read them yet. I recently bough an orthodox study bible, and want to buy some more literature. Out of curiosity I've watched Fr Peter Heers, Fr Josiah Trenhem, Fr Spyridon and Fr Moses among others, and have checked out the livestream of a few churches in Australia. I keep hesitating, I don't know why. I've always hesitated, and it's crushing me to keep holding back. I want to move forwards, I'm no longer going to a non-denom church but that means I'm not going to church at all. I miss it, but it doesn't feel right anymore to go to a protestant church.

As an Australian there's so many jurisdictions to choose from, unfortunately no western rite. I grew up going to catholic mass with all the Italian catholics, even though my mum and I were Polish it didn't matter, they welcomed us. I miss the sense of community, but I stopped going there because as I got closer to 10 it seemed to me that there was no God in the church, what I was taught about simply wasn't there. After my confirmation (the coming of age ritual and 6th sacrament) I stopped going. I'm not sure which jurisdiction to check out, and I'm worried about the same experience as when I was little, something called cultural Christianity I believe unless I'm getting terms mixed up.

The way orthodoxy has been portrayed in the media has just made it seem... not like the orthodoxy I see in America. I don't want dry Christianity devoid of a sense of God, but being pentacostal or non-denom or trying any other denomination isn't an option for me now. I tried logical reductionism, and there's no Polish orthodox church but there is two Russian orthodox churches. One which has a review talking about a bad experience as an autistic Ukrainian immigrant. I'm autistic and I worry about how I'd be received especially since being half Polish is more heritage than my actual culture (a sad fading away).

Does anyone know about the current challenges in Australian orthodoxy, particularly regarding issues with the growing ecumenical heresy and something a handful of orthodox leaders are calling the covid heresy? I'm particularly concerned about the former, I am NOT for unity with the heretical Roman Catholic church until they drop the heresy and convert to orthodoxy. Which jurisdiction do I choose? Which church do I attend? How do i start? How do I break out of a vicious stagnation and cycle of hesitation? To say I have a checkered history is an understatement, and women really aren't allowed that kind of past.

I have autism, adhd, mental health issues and a few other things. if you want to understand what that means, check out How To ADHD by Jessica McCabe, Orion Kelly's channel about autism, and Scott Eilers channel about mental health. I'm a mix of that, there's a lot at stake, and I do not want a bad experience. Do any orthodox know what I mean about wanting to find God in the church, not more dry religiosity. I'm wrestling with the idea of churches rooted in the old country, there being no actual Australian orthodoxy and more a preserving of the old culture rather than fostering a truly Australian orthodoxy. That may be my protestant history talking, I am just a seeker at the moment, but a vigilant one aware of some modern politics and relevant global issues.

Regarding jurisdictions, here are my local options:
Patriarchate: Russian Orthodox Church
Semi-autonomous Church: Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia

Patriarchate: Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople
Eparchy: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia

Patriarchate: Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East
Archdiocese: Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand and Philippines

Unrecognized Church: Macedonian Orthodox Church - Ohrid Archbishopric
Diocese: Diocese of Australia and New Zealand

Autocephalous Church: Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
Diocese: Diocese of Melbourne and Affiliated Regions

Patriarchate: Patriarchate of Serbia
Archdiocese: Serbian Orthodox Eparchy of Australia and New Zealand

(Western Australia, Australia - World Orthodox Directory)

 

[prodromos]

The most important thing you need to do is get in touch with the local priests. Send off some emails with the information you've related above and pray that God will take you by the hand.

Me personally, my wife is Greek so we naturally went to a Greek parish, but we have a small ROCOR monastery which is closer to home and we currently split our time between the two, and while we have some dear friends in the Greek parish, the community at the ROCOR monastery is something else. A recent decision made by the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew with regard to the schismatic church in the Ukraine has left a bad taste in our mouths, so we now find we are slowly distancing ourselves from the Greek Church, as much as it saddens us.

 

[Uriah S]

I too spent a long time thinking about jurisdictions, praying about which church to walk into. Eventually the Spirit just led me to where I would be most at home.

I don’t think there's a wrong answer for you. Just a question of what is most right.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

No wrong answer as to Orthodox jurisdictions. There are some differences, but too early for that. Try a few and see what is a fit. If you cannot feel God in any of them, then it is likely on you. You can feel if you are welcome or not. That is very important as a start.

You okay with the feel of the Liturgy? Any orientation to the service needed?

 

[rusmeister]

I’d toss my vote for the Serbian Church. it’s a smaller thing, and the corruption that must be in it is necessarily of a smaller scale and less likely to disappoint. No global ambitions or delusions about saving the world. at any rate, that sort of issue has been huge for me.

 

[Dulcie]

No wrong answer as to Orthodox jurisdictions. There are some differences, but too early for that. Try a few and see what is a fit. If you cannot feel God in any of them, then it is likely on you. You can feel if you are welcome or not. That is very important as a start.

You okay with the feel of the Liturgy? Any orientation to the service needed?

Are those questions I should be asking or are you asking me those questions?
And what do you mean by orientation to the service needed?

 

[Dulcie]

I too spent a long time thinking about jurisdictions, praying about which church to walk into. Eventually the Spirit just led me to where I would be most at home.

I don’t think there's a wrong answer for you. Just a question of what is most right.

If I may ask, what was the shift beyond thinking and prayer to? How were you led?
Also, are there any prayers that you think would help me in my search?

 

[Dulcie]

The most important thing you need to do is get in touch with the local priests. Send off some emails with the information you've related above and pray that God will take you by the hand.

Me personally, my wife is Greek so we naturally went to a Greek parish, but we have a small ROCOR monastery which is closer to home and we currently split our time between the two, and while we have some dear friends in the Greek parish, the community at the ROCOR monastery is something else. A recent decision made by the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew with regard to the schismatic church in the Ukraine has left a bad taste in our mouths, so we now find we are slowly distancing ourselves from the Greek Church, as much as it saddens us.

Respectfully, may I ask more about this controversial decision? If you prefer not to mention it in the forums, is there a web page, video, blog, newsletter, etc that you could direct me to, so I might better understand what you are referring to?

 

[Dulcie]

I’d toss my vote for the Serbian Church. it’s a smaller thing, and the corruption that must be in it is necessarily of a smaller scale and less likely to disappoint. No global ambitions or delusions about saving the world. at any rate, that sort of issue has been huge for me.

I wish the Polish orthodox jurisdiction had a church in Australia, I'm Polish on my mother's side and it may sound overly simplistic but I could just go there. Perhaps it's better that I have to make a decision. Not easy for an overthinker. The Jesus Complex is a real thing, tends to be contagious as well.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

Are those questions I should be asking or are you asking me those questions?
And what do you mean by orientation to the service needed?

Are you comfortable visiting an Orthodox church for Divine Liturgy? Do you know what to expect?

Could you explain your hesitation in sampling the various options you have? Go to several and see if any of them are a fit for you. I think you are overthinking it, overthinker.

 

[Uriah S]

If I may ask, what was the shift beyond thinking and prayer to?

Action. I found myself walking past a church I knew of, simply wanting to see where it was in case I might plan to go in.

How were you led?

The doors were open, one of the monks saw me and invited me in. And there had been other "God-incidences" which had led to me walking that way that day.

Also, are there any prayers that you think would help me in my search?

I was not orthodox at the time, so it was good old "Lord, guide me" prayer.

I had been in many orthodox churches before, but I like the suggestion to contact priests by email. It made a big difference having someone to speak to once I was there.

Another thought for you, you don’t have to decide on one church. Many of our parishioners 'visit' other parishes, especially for services at times that suit their schedules better - and there is no issue with doing that.

 

[E.C.]

There difference between Russian and Greek Orthodox communities is the same as the difference between Italian and Irish Catholic communities: food and what first names are most common. It is the same theology.


Do you drive or take public transportation? My advice is: first determine how long you're willing to commute, then visit every parish within that commute time at least once or twice. Finally, stay at the one that feels most like home.

 

[Dulcie]

Are you comfortable visiting an Orthodox church for Divine Liturgy? Do you know what to expect?

Could you explain your hesitation in sampling the various options you have? Go to several and see if any of them are a fit for you. I think you are overthinking it, overthinker.

I'm curious about the divine liturgy but going so quickly from outside to inside surrounded by people I don't know in something new to me makes me a bit scared to go. I've seen a livestream online so I kinda know what I'll see, but previews aren't much.

I'm just so shy, I have autism as well and I don't know if anyone would understand that especially since I don't have intellectual or language impairment. I wish I could go with someone. I'm so scared of going alone. I wish someone here was a Perthie and could meet me there or go with me. That I can't find out ANYTHING beforehand makes me hesitant.

 

[Dulcie]

There difference between Russian and Greek Orthodox communities is the same as the difference between Italian and Irish Catholic communities: food and what first names are most common. It is the same theology.


Do you drive or take public transportation? My advice is: first determine how long you're willing to commute, then visit every parish within that commute time at least once or twice. Finally, stay at the one that feels most like home.

I don't have a car, and the train line near me is shutdown for a couple years for reconstruction. I'm willing to go anywhere in the metro area so long as I get there on time. I don't know the polite way to say "I don't want to come here" without feeling like I'm being rude. I don't like ghosting people either.

 

[Dulcie]

Action. I found myself walking past a church I knew of, simply wanting to see where it was in case I might plan to go in.

The doors were open, one of the monks saw me and invited me in. And there had been other "God-incidences" which had led to me walking that way that day.

I was not orthodox at the time, so it was good old "Lord, guide me" prayer.

I had been in many orthodox churches before, but I like the suggestion to contact priests by email. It made a big difference having someone to speak to once I was there.

Another thought for you, you don’t have to decide on one church. Many of our parishioners 'visit' other parishes, especially for services at times that suit their schedules better - and there is no issue with doing that.

How do you say you won't come again without being rude? I think I will email. Maybe just walk past and see what happens. I've seen livestreams of orthodox churches. I'll try to see if there's a livestream of an Orthodox church from Perth. That feels superficial and wrong, but I may be wrong on that.

Does it make sense to go to a Russian orthodox church if I've Polish heritage on my mlthers side. I don't feel very Polish though, between an overemphasis on integration (white australia policy) and the massive family fued that fragmented the extended family I feel a loss of that part of me which was already dwindling.

 

[Uriah S]

How do you say you won't come again without being rude?

I think it fairly unlikely that anyone would put an enquirer in the situation that they would need to say that. I find evasive answers polite but honest also. Rather than "I won't be back", I might say "I'm not sure", or "I need to pray about that" (and then pray about it).

I think I will email. Maybe just walk past and see what happens. I've seen livestreams of orthodox churches. I'll try to see if there's a livestream of an Orthodox church from Perth. That feels superficial and wrong, but I may be wrong on that.

This already sounds like you are further forward than when you made this thread. Keep praying until you feel calm about knowing what to do.

Does it make sense to go to a Russian orthodox church if I've Polish heritage on my mlthers side. I don't feel very Polish though, between an overemphasis on integration (white australia policy) and the massive family fued that fragmented the extended family I feel a loss of that part of me which was already dwindling.

Well I've been to churches that I have no ethnic connection to, simply because I was nearby, and not being one ethnic group or another has never been a problem. A good question to ask beforehand is if the services are in English. If they are, I think there's a good chance of there being many others from a broad range of ethnicities.

(Sorry to hear of family feud, those things are a loss all round).

My advice is just keep praying on things. I trust that answers are clear when the time is right for action.

You already took a big step in starting this thread. Approaching a church is just another step. It can be intimidating when you’re uncertain, but prayerfully it's not a step you take alone as the Holy Spirit will be with you.

God bless.

 

[Dulcie]

I think it fairly unlikely that anyone would put an enquirer in the situation that they would need to say that. I find evasive answers polite but honest also. Rather than "I won't be back", I might say "I'm not sure", or "I need to pray about that" (and then pray about it).


This already sounds like you are further forward than when you made this thread. Keep praying until you feel calm about knowing what to do.


Well I've been to churches that I have no ethnic connection to, simply because I was nearby, and not being one ethnic group or another has never been a problem. A good question to ask beforehand is if the services are in English. If they are, I think there's a good chance of there being many others from a broad range of ethnicities.

(Sorry to hear of family feud, those things are a loss all round).

My advice is just keep praying on things. I trust that answers are clear when the time is right for action.

You already took a big step in starting this thread. Approaching a church is just another step. It can be intimidating when you’re uncertain, but prayerfully it's not a step you take alone as the Holy Spirit will be with you.

God bless.

Thankyou so much, talking to other people makes it clearer than thinking about it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know I am late to this thread, but may I ask which Church is closest to you?

 

[Dulcie]

I know I am late to this thread, but may I ask which Church is closest to you?

The closest to me is an Ethiopian orthodox church, I don't know if I should go there, I'm not African so it might not be for people like me. A bit further out is a Syrian orthodox church, and further up is a Coptic orthodox, Indian orthodox and a Serbian Orthodox church. Then you hit the city, that has a few that are close to public transport.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The closest to me is an Ethiopian orthodox church, I don't know if I should go there, I'm not African so it might not be for people like me. A bit further out is a Syrian orthodox church, and further up is a Coptic orthodox, Indian orthodox and a Serbian Orthodox church. Then you hit the city, that has a few that are close to public transport.

how close is the Serbian Church? I ask since we’re not in communion with any of the others, so they are not Orthodox.