Here's the most critical question for you ...

[BCsenior]

Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?

“… wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to (eternal)
destruction … narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which
leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)
The truth of the narrow way has not at all been taught in its full reality.
There are many NT verses which prove how narrow the way really is!

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom
of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven …
I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you (approved of you); depart
from Me, you who practice lawlessness (sin)!’ ” (Matthew 7:21-23)
There’s much more to doing God’s will than merely believing in Jesus!
Yes, sin keeps you out of the kingdom … see the NT “sin lists”
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6).

“You will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures
to the end (until his death) will be saved (eternally).” (Matthew 10:22)
There are about 15 NT verses which teach us … the believer must
endure in the faith until death to receive eternal life (and some are below).

“But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17)
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
(John 14:21, also John 14:23 & John 15:14)
Does anyone get into heaven who does NOT love Jesus and obey Him?

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter
into life maimed rather than having two hands and go to hell” (Mark 9:43)

“For whoever desires to save his (worldly) life will lose it (eternal life)
but whoever loses his (worldly) life for My sake will save it (eternal life).
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is
himself destroyed or lost (eternal death)?” (Luke 9:24-25 and John 12:25)

“And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh” (Galatians 5:24)
“For if you live according to the flesh you will die (eternally)” (Romans 8:13)
“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,
that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh
reap corruption (eternal death)” (Galatians 6:7-8)

“… the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received
... by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which
I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

“Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)

“But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in
destruction and perdition (eternal death) … Command those who
are rich … that they may lay hold on to eternal life.” (1 Timothy 6:9-19)

“ ‘My righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure
in anyone who turns away.’ But we are not like those who turn
away from God to their own destruction (eternal death). We are
the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.” (Hebrews 10:38-39)
Paul says some believers turn back to their destruction, but in fact,
he has NO idea who will remain faithful to the end, or who will turn away!

“In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:10)
“He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars
shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death (eternal death).” (Revelation 21:7-8)
The “cowardly” include believers who fall from the faith when persecuted
for their Christian faith, or later submit to taking the mark of the beast.

“But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything
that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those
who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Revelation 21:27)

“He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and
I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life” (Revelation 3:5)

Jesus gives His definition of who the victorious “overcomer” is …
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
(Revelation 3:21)
Just what did Jesus overcome? Primarily: the world, sin, and the devil.
We today are the deceived church of Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22).

“If you refuse to forgive others, your Father won’t forgive your sins.”
(Matthew 6:15)
Unforgiveness blocks you from heaven, and it also blocks you from being healed!

“Fear the Lord and keep His commandments … so that you may be saved.
… So have faith in Him and fear Him and by that fear exercise self-control.
Keep these commandments. If you do, you will put on the strength of
righteousness, and cast all wickedness from you, and live to God.”
(“The Shepherd of Hermas” -- most popular Christian “book” during 100-400 a.d.
Quoted as Scripture by such as: Irenaeas, Clement, Origen, Codex Sinaiticus.
The Shepherd (an angel?) calls himself: “the Shepherd and messenger of repentance”.)

“Fear God, who has the power … to throw you into hell” (Luke 12:5)
“… unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)

“… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh
and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God … your sorrow
(over my first letter to you) led to repentance … For godly sorrow
produces repentance leading to salvation.” (2 Corinthians 7:1-10)
Yes, our current sins will be forgiven through deep and sincere repentance!

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
“When the Lord saw that their repentance was good and pure, and that they
were able to remain in it, He ordered their former sins to be blotted out.”
(“The Shepherd of Hermas” – he’s not nearly as tactful as the earlier Epistles)

Has Satan deceived you? … Has he deceived your church?

Satan hates God, and he hates you! … He and his demons work
tirelessly to succeed in having you spend eternity in hell with them.
“the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
“the ruler of this world” (John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11)
“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)
“he is a liar and the father of it (lies)” (John 8:44)
“evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world” (Ephesians 6:12)

Have you been deceived into believing in “once saved, always saved”,
and that your sins (past, present, and future) have all been forgiven?
(Also, have you been deceived into believing in a pre-tribulation rapture?)
Heads-up! The dozens of warnings in the NT are there for a purpose!
For example: “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … now present
your bodies as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16,19)

Born-agains have been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit
to free them from their bondage to Satan – and from their slavery to sin!

 

[football5680]

They do apply.

 

[BCsenior]

They do apply.

I'm really glad that you realize that fact.

 

[sdowney717]

I'm really glad that you realize that fact.

Regarding being eternally saved, dont you think this applies also? Christ saves to the uttermost, meaning their is no doubt~, all those who come to God through Him.

Hebrews 7:24-26New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

And

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29New King James Version (NKJV)
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Are you striving in the flesh, or are you accepted in the beloved because He loved you and made you born of God.
All those who are born of God overcome the world by their faith. If they have no faith they are not begotten again to a living hope.

These people are saved.
1 John 5New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[BCsenior]

Hebrews 7:24-26 (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

The above is difficult for me to refute, but there must be an explanation
because about 100 NT verses say we have a part to play in our salvation
(which is a process, that's for sure).
Your other "proof-texts" are easily refuted.

 

[BCsenior]

Please tell me why NT passages such as those in the OP
do NOT apply to you?

 

[BCsenior]

RE: repenting of a particular sin
1 • have sorrow over doing it
2 • confess it before the Lord
3 • ask the Lord for forgiveness
4 • stop doing it
This what the Lord requires of you.

 

[sdowney717]

The above is difficult for me to refute, but there must be an explanation
because about 100 NT verses say we have a part to play in our salvation
(which is a process, that's for sure).
Your other "proof-texts" are easily refuted.

Absolutely we have a part, that is to receive Christ as our savior. When we do that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the Day of redemption of the purchased possession.
John 6 in v39 Jesus says He will lose none given to Him by God. Now this points to Gods choosing of those who are His who will be saved.
v39, God's part
v40 God's part and our part.
v40, we have to see and believe, we also have to have ears to hear. The ability to do this comes from God as a gift. Thus first must come the new birth to see (perceive) the kingdom of God, otherwise you will never understand who Jesus is as the Christ of God come in the flesh to save you from your sin.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 3, we must be born again to see, which means to perceive Christ, believe and be saved.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

The sealing and why are we sealed? As a guarantee of our inheritance, eternal life. We are purchased possessions, there are ownership issues at play, you are not your own, you were bought with a great price.

Ephesians 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.

 

[Oldmantook]

Absolutely we have a part, that is to receive Christ as our savior. When we do that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the Day of redemption of the purchased possession.

No where in the passages about being sealed by the Holy Spirit does it state or even imply that "sealed" means an unbreakable seal. The seal to Jesus' tomb was broken. The seals in Revelation were unsealed. To infer that the seal of the Spirit is unbreakable, one would be to eisegete the text. The seal is a down payment or "the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL we acquire possession of it." Much like the down payment on a house mortgage, the seal of the Holy Spirit purchases or ensures our redemption UNTIL we finally acquire possession of eternal life. However the occupier of the home is required by contract to meet monthly mortgage payments or default on the loan. In the same way, believers via contract of the New Covenant are bound to keep the faith by continuing to believe and live a repentant lifestyle. As long as one believes and obeys, one abides in the vine and has eternal life. Apostatizing by no longer believing and/or by engaging in habitual sin devoids the promise of eternal life.

 

[Marvin Knox]

No where in the passages about being sealed by the Holy Spirit does it state or even imply that "sealed" means an unbreakable seal.

Absolute nonsense.

That's exactly what it implies. It couldn't be much more clear.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14

By the way - we have already been redeemed by the Blood of Jesus Christ. I's not that we might be redeemed someday if we live up to the standards expressed by Oldmanook in the Christian Forums.

And even if you somehow viewed our redemption as sometime future - He still promises that His sealing guarantee will remain right up until redemption happens.

Unless of course one believes and teaches that we are sealed until the split second of redemption - at which split second when that happens - He departs and unseals us cause we haven't been good enough.

Wouldn't that be a nonsensical thing to suggest?

Like I said, "absolute nonsense".

 

[Oldmantook]

Absolute nonsense.

That's exactly what it implies. It couldn't be much more clear.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14

By the way - we have already been redeemed by the Blood of Jesus Christ. I's not that we might be redeemed someday if we live up to the standards expressed by Oldmanook in the Christian Forums.

And even if you somehow viewed our redemption as sometime future - He still promises that His sealing guarantee will remain right up until redemption happens.

Unless of course one believes and teaches that we are sealed until the split second of redemption - at which split second when that happens - He departs and unseals us cause we haven't been good enough.

Wouldn't that be a nonsensical thing to suggest?

Like I said, "absolute nonsense".

Of course is is absolute nonsense to those who don't interpret scripture properly. You should very well know the whole of Scripture describes salvation as an ongoing process and not strictly limited to a one-time moment in the past. Do you wish to IGNORE those scriptures or do I have to point them out to you? This process requires ongoing faithfulness and abiding in the vine. If you wish to believe otherwise, that is to your detriment but certainly your prerogative.

 

[sdowney717]

Of course is is absolute nonsense to those who don't interpret scripture properly. You should very well know the whole of Scripture describes salvation as an ongoing process and not strictly limited to a one-time moment in the past. Do you wish to IGNORE those scriptures or do I have to point them out to you? This process requires ongoing faithfulness and abiding in the vine. If you wish to believe otherwise, that is to your detriment but certainly your prerogative.

Salvation is an ongoing process in the sense that we are eternally saved for all time, now and forever saved.

If we are saved after believeing, like Jesus says in John 5, we are saved for a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time like 1 Peter 1 and Hebrews 9 says, then salvation for believers really is an everlasting durable one.

Those who hear will live, and will not come into judgement, there will be no white throne judgement of their works for them who hear Christ.
John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

If you are in Christ, and God has granted Christ to have life in Himself, they you too are alive having the nature of everlasting eternal life in the Son by nature, it is natural to you that you are therfore alive to God in the SPIRIT. Your life is hid with Christ in GOD.

Now salvation is continuous and has several meanings.
At the END, we receive a salvation when He returns for His people to save them from their existence in this wicked evil age.
The first time Christ came to forgive sins, the second time Christ comes with salvation, from the wrath of GOD poured out on this evil world.

Examples, His second advent is not to forgive sins, but to bring judgement on the wicked and to liberate the children of God from this current wicked age.
Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Suffering of His people in this evil age is so that we are counted worthy of the kingdom of God.
His return for believers means salvation from their suffering persecutions, fiery trials, tribulations.

2 Thessalonians 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,

5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[sdowney717]

Revelations 20
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The second death is the lake of fire. To be subject to that means your belief in Christ was without any power to save you from your works. To be subject to the second death, means you will be judged for your works. If Christ says you will not come into judgement, but have everlasting life, then you can not be subject to the second death where people come into judgement for their works.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Of course is is absolute nonsense to those who don't interpret scripture properly. You should very well know the whole of Scripture describes salvation as an ongoing process and not strictly limited to a one-time moment in the past. Do you wish to IGNORE those scriptures or do I have to point them out to you? This process requires ongoing faithfulness and abiding in the vine. If you wish to believe otherwise, that is to your detriment but certainly your prerogative.

Every theologian and Christian I have ever known has and does "very well know the whole of Scripture describes salvation as an ongoing process and not strictly limited to a one-time moment in the past."

Are you able produce a statement from someone who says otherwise?

The difference between, say, me and some others (likely you) is that I have faith that I have passed from death to life and will never again come into condemnation. I have done so based on the work of the Holy Spirit, related to my spirit, who became a part of my innermost being the moment I "believed", in the Biblical sense of the word, and was justified before my creator.

That justified status was given to me because I have believed on Jesus Christ as God's provision for the forgiveness of my sins on the day of judgement.

"If you wish to believe otherwise, that is to your detriment but certainly your prerogative".

Frankly, as I view it, it is the difference between saving faith and religion.

Many are of the Christian religion ranging from out and out cults to liturgical types, to many types of Protestants. Many, perhaps even most, are good people who, in their own way, are attempting to follow God.

Many will point to their success in following God (Jesus if you will) when they meet Him face to face. Many have been more successful in refraining from sin and doing religious acts than I have, sad to say.

But many will be told that He never knew them in this life and to depart from Him. He calls them workers of iniquity when He sends them away.

The Lord says that they will be utterly speechless on that day. No doubt they never dreamed that they were not in the faith. No doubt many here in the forum have never dreamed that they may not have saving faith. After all - Jesus is their Lord.

As I view it, considering all the scriptures tell us about works vs. faith, the works of iniquity He speaks of are not overt sins. I fear that they are, instead, the preaching of a gospel of works in varying degrees from subtle like you and some other well meaning people are doing to great like the cults and some liturgical types are doing.

The difference between saving faith and some other kind of faith is often subtle. But it is real and dire.

Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith.

 

[BCsenior]

Absolutely we have a part, that is to receive Christ as our savior.
When we do that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for
the Day of redemption of the purchased possession.

Okay great, you're stuck in Kindergarden Christianity.
Sure milk is great, but how about becoming a meat-eater?
Please tell me why NT passages such as those in the OP
do NOT apply to you?

 

[BCsenior]

No where in the passages about being sealed by the Holy Spirit does it state or even imply that "sealed" means an unbreakable seal.

Here we have a guy who has a PhD in "What Christianity is".

 

[BCsenior]

Absolute nonsense.
Like I said, "absolute nonsense".

Yes okay, we will be more than happy to change your name to "Absolute Nonsense".

 

[BCsenior]

Of course is is absolute nonsense to those who don't interpret scripture properly. You should very well know the whole of Scripture describes salvation as an ongoing process and not strictly limited to a one-time moment in the past. Do you wish to IGNORE those scriptures or do I have to point them out to you? This process requires ongoing faithfulness and abiding in the vine. If you wish to believe otherwise, that is to your detriment but certainly your prerogative.

Yes, we can easily point to just ONE proof text series of verses
... the 15 or so NT verses which (are supposed to) teach us that
the believer MUST remain in the faith until death to receive eternal life!

Yes, Marvin continually chooses to IGNORE many NT verses.

Believers must RECONCILE both groups of NT verses in the so-called OSAS debate.
I have.
.

 

[BCsenior]

Salvation is an ongoing process in the sense that we are eternally saved for all time, now and forever saved.

IMO, due to the persuasive work of the precious Holy Spirit
and to Jesus' intercession before the Father on our behalf,
I believe it is somewhat difficult to throw away our salvation!

But now, let me warn everyone of our future testing!
-- Do not fail to stand firm in the faith during the upcoming persecution of Christians.
-- Do not submit to taking that dreaded mark of the beast (see Rev 13 and 14).

Failure in either of these testings will result in the loss of your salvation
(if, in fact, you ever had it).

 

[Marvin Knox]

Please tell me why NT passages such as those in the OP do NOT apply to you?

Marvin continually chooses to IGNORE many NT verses

Since my position related to your OP is the same as football5680 I saw no reason to comment on them.

They do apply.

You asked for input from those who think the verses don't apply to them did you not?

I'm not sure where you are coming from with the "continually chooses to IGNORE many NT verses" comment.

The thread is fairly short so far and I haven't responded to the verses simply because I don't have a problem with them applying to me.

Do you for some reason think that I reject the verses in the OP? What would give you that idea?