Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT...

[Loudmouth]

Now see - we have someone other than me -- and one or two other non-atheists here - - with posts addressing the issue in the OP.

The Germ Theory of Disease makes me doubt the belief that demons cause infectious disease. Therefore, the Germ Theory of Disease must be false.

Do you see a problem with that argument?

 

[TLK Valentine]

The Germ Theory of Disease makes me doubt the belief that demons cause infectious disease. Therefore, the Germ Theory of Disease must be false.

Do you see a problem with that argument?

Somehow I doubt that he does.

 

[JacksBratt]

Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT... were the OT writers simply writing what they "thought" and the way they "felt" about God, and not in an actual words God actually said..

Well, my problem is I believe the scientific evidence which casts doubt on some of the Bible writers, BUT, I have too much personal experiencial evidence of a God and other spirits existing on another side beside this one...

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...periencing-part-of-a-pm-conversation.7843548/

My personal experiencial evidence stands on it's very own as enough proof for me, but have I encountered the same God (YHWH) spoke about in the OT, some OT acts and verses by God cast a shadow of a doubt on him being a or the God of Love...

Anyone help?

God Bless!

What you are feeling, doubting and second guessing, is the EXACT purpose of the TOE. It is designed to remove God from being at the start of the existence of everything, creating everything. All the while, it has not one sniff of where life came from in the first place. In fact, don't even ask them where life came from. They want none of that. They want to tell you what happened after this one miraculous organism magically appeared with protein, enzymes, DNA, the ability to replicate, the ability to eat, mitochondria, cell membranes, endoplasmic reticulum..... everything there is in a single celled organism just "poofed" into a puddle. But don't ask them how. They will tell you books and books and reams and reams of what happened after but, nope, not before... that "doesn't concern them".


The TOE was not Darwin's own theory. It had been around for a while. He just put it in a book and the rest is history...

Basically, the TOE is Satan's plan. He tells lie upon lie with just enough truth mixed in that you cannot tell the difference.... Darwin was lead down the garden path and produced a book that helped with one of Satan's biggest lies.... to tell you God doesn't exist and is not necessary... The other lie is the he doesn't exist himself.

One of the reasons that atheists hang around a Christian forum is to hunt for people, like yourself, who are searching for answers and not completely solid in your faith. They hunt people like you down and pull you out of faith and fill you with their theories. You are a ripe red apple for them.
That's why they are mustering around this thread.....

 

[TLK Valentine]

What you are feeling, doubting and second guessing, is the EXACT purpose of the TOE. It is designed to remove God from being at the start of the existence of everything, creating everything.

Who told you that?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

What you are feeling, doubting and second guessing, is the EXACT purpose of the TOE. It is designed to remove God from being at the start of the existence of everything, creating everything.

It's an explanation for the diversity of life. It has nothing to say about the existence or non existence of a God. Unless you can find scientific research regarding the theory of evolution that explicitly states it it removes the existence of a God, then you are misrepresenting the theory. That is dishonest.

All the while, it has not one sniff of where life came from in the first place.

Nor does it try to explain it. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life. So, you're right, it doesn't have anything to say about it because evolution is about the diversity of life not the origin. Do you also reject the germ theory of disease because it doesn't explain where germs came from?

In fact, don't even ask them where life came from. They want none of that.

You can ask it all you want. I don't mind. My answer is 'I don't know'. That is the most intellectually honest answer one can give to questions they do not have the answer to. Unless you can provide verifiable and testable evidence to this question, you also do not know the answer. Abiogenesis is an interesting study completely separate from evolution theory.

They want to tell you what happened after this one miraculous organism magically appeared with protein, enzymes, DNA, the ability to replicate, the ability to eat, mitochondria, cell membranes, endoplasmic reticulum..... everything there is in a single celled organism just "poofed" into a puddle.

That's what evolution is. You clearly don't understand it. It explains the diversity of life. How populations of organisms change over time. This is supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence from several independent disciplines. If you want to talk abiogenesis, then open a new thread. The unanswered question for life's origin doesn't threaten evolution in the least bit. Who said anything about a single celled organism "poofing" into existence in a puddle? By the way, we've observed self replicating RNA enzymes in the lab. http://www.cell.com/chemistry-biology/abstract/S1074-5521(13)00426-2

Basically, the TOE is Satan's plan.

The understanding of evolution has contributed to advancements in modern medicine. Are you going to reject vaccinations because they are made possible by our understanding of evolution?

He tells lie upon lie with just enough truth mixed in that you cannot tell the difference....

Evolution is demonstrably true and is supported by an abundance of facts and contradicted by none.

 

[BobRyan]

The Germ Theory of Disease makes me doubt the belief that demons cause infectious disease.

Bible reading make me believe that the Bible gives two distinct scenarios where healing took place -- in some cases it says it is disease and sickness... in other places it says that demons are involved -- depending on cases.

of course your eye-witness diagnosis as to which was which is presumably better than the Bible since you are 2000 years removed from the event.

Do you see a problem with your argument?

 

[BobRyan]

Here is what Dawkins thinks -

"“biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

Of course as a -- polite atheist -- (or something of that sort of atheist according to Dawkins) -- he cannot afford to let God design whatever is observed to be such.

real life is not what many evolutionists imagine to themselves.
Details matter.

"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

Dawkins illustrates the point that a sufficiently talented “story teller” can spin a story to convince himself to ignore the observations in nature where we can see complicated biological systems that appear to have been designed for a purpose.

Imagine if you will "physics is the study of complicated things that appear to have been created by a rabbit" - now of course the person saying that in all seriousness - does not really think a rabbit exists or did such a thing - they just say that to be 'informative' and open minded.

I think the world of evolutionists must be pretty entertaining

It's been pointed out countless times in this thread that this is a quote mine.

By defining the term as "anything that believers in evolutionism find inconvenient" --

And it is has been pointed out countless times - objective unbiased readers do not go for such nonsensical self-serving definitions.

Try again.

Even if Dawkins were saying what you so desperately want him to be saying, he'd be wrong and evolution would still be true.

-- All news is 'good news' to a true believer in evolutionism.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, answer me this. Would you like to discuss the evidence for evolution instead of rejecting it out of hand ad nauseum?

John answer me this - is that what you see in the question asked in the OP???

But to your question -- you want me to explain why I reject blind-faith evolutionism?


Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

Explain why "prokaryotes never turn into eukaryotes no matter how many millions of generations we observe them?"

Explain why "the Eurey Miller experiment utterly failed to produce viable amino acid building blocks - due to results having randomly distributed chiral orientation of the product amino acids"??

Explain why "junk science confirmed frauds fill the history of junk-science evolutionism over the past 150 years"??

Explain why "Osborn is praised for lying to, and hiding truth from his readers -- to this very day - over at TalkOrigins"??

Explain why "the high-priests of evolutionism - their own well-known scientists, professors and authors LAMENT the distinctively religious and anti-knowledge nature of their own field of study"??

Explain why "Othaniel Marsh' junk-science hoax and confirmed fraud horse series is STILL on display at the Smithsonian over 50 years after being publically admitted as a fraud?"?? (We know WHY they do that - it is for emotional "effect" - which is the basis of their speculative arguments all along).

Explain why that sort of junk-religion is not worth adopting -- with its explicit risk of getting you into the Rev 20 lake of fire??

We need to "explain that"??

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

By defining the term as "anything that believers in evolutionism find inconvenient" --
And it is has been pointed out countless times - objective unbiased readers do not go for such nonsensical self-serving definitions.

No, Bob. This has been explained to you countless times yet you continue to be dishonest. From the very same chapter

What about our own bodies? Each one of us is a machine, like an airliner only much more complicated. Were we designed on a drawing board too, and were our parts assembled by a skilled engineer? The answer is no" (Page 3)
http://terebess.hu/keletkultinfo/The_Blind_Watchmaker.pdf Read it for yourself and then demonstrate you understand it.

Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

This isn't what evolution claims. This is a strawman. You've been told this before. Stop being dishonest.
Please cite scientific research that makes this claim. If you cannot, then retract this copy-pasted quote and concede that it is wrong.

Explain why "prokaryotes never turn into eukaryotes no matter how many millions of generations we observe them?"

You're making it so obvious that you have absolutely no clue what evolution states and does not state. Fossil records show that eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes about 2 billion years ago. This is through a process of endosymbiosis. Perhaps you should educate yourself a little further.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/_0/endosymbiosis_03
http://www.infoplease.com/cig/biology/eukaryote-evolution.html

Explain why "the Eurey Miller experiment utterly failed to produce viable amino acid building blocks - due to results having randomly distributed chiral orientation of the product amino acids"??

This is an abiogenesis experiment. If you'd like to discuss abiogenesis, open a new thread. Evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis. The unanswered questions of abiogenesis do not threaten evolution in the least bit. Evolution explains the diversity of life and how populations change over time, not how life began.

Explain why "junk science confirmed frauds fill the history of junk-science evolutionism over the past 150 years"??

Are the vaccinations for infectious diseases junk science? Modern medicine depends on the theory of evolution. You'll have to provide an example of how it is junk science besides "it threatens my fundamentalist beliefs"

Explain why "Osborn is praised for lying to, and hiding truth from his readers -- to this very day - over at TalkOrigins"??

Praised by who? You'll have to provide an example, Bob. Nebraska man was never widely accepted by the scientific community and it never threatened to falsify evolution. Science is a self correcting process. It's a strength not a weakness. Why are you using quotations? Are you copy pasting this from somewhere? Please use your own words to form an argument.

Explain why "the high-priests of evolutionism - their own well-known scientists, professors and authors LAMENT the distinctively religious and anti-knowledge nature of their own field of study"??

This is a bunch of gibberish. Could you clarify what you are trying to say here?

Explain why that sort of junk-religion is not worth adopting -- with its explicit risk of getting you into the Rev 20 lake of fire??

You don't have to accept it. You have every right to be wrong. In my opinion, it's sad that you'll be willfully ignorant because you are terrified by the threat of hell, even though there is no evidence that hell exists.

Here is my one "explain this" question to you.

Explain why when we compare genomes of two different species, it falls into a perfect nested hierarchy, exactly what evolution predicts?

 

[BobRyan]

No, Bob. This has been explained to you countless times yet you continue to be dishonest.

No Jim - -this has been explained to you alrleady - and you continue to be evolutionist - resorting to ad hominem instead of paying attention to details.

In a discussion such as this "details matter".

From the very same chapter

What about our own bodies? Each one of us is a machine, like an airliner only much more complicated.

And of course we already know - nobody designs or builds airplanes.

I think we have already heard this one before. How is this helping you?

Here is yet another reason objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

Far beyond our "technology" to replicate --

He who designed that -- also designed heaven and has foretold the fact of the Rev 20 lake of fire.


"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

Dawkins illustrates the point that a sufficiently talented “story teller” can spin a story to convince himself to ignore the observations in nature where we can see complicated biological systems that appear to have been designed for a purpose.

were our parts assembled by a skilled engineer? The answer is no" (Page 3)

The answer is only "no" in blind-faith evolutionism. We have already covered this.

 

[BobRyan]

But to your question -- you want me to explain why I reject blind-faith evolutionism?

Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

Explain why "prokaryotes never turn into eukaryotes no matter how many millions of generations we observe them?"

Explain why "the Eurey Miller experiment utterly failed to produce viable amino acid building blocks - due to results having randomly distributed chiral orientation of the product amino acids"??

Explain why "junk science confirmed frauds fill the history of junk-science evolutionism over the past 150 years"??

Explain why "Osborn is praised for lying to, and hiding truth from his readers -- to this very day - over at TalkOrigins"??

Explain why "the high-priests of evolutionism - their own well-known scientists, professors and authors LAMENT the distinctively religious and anti-knowledge nature of their own field of study"??

Explain why "Othaniel Marsh' junk-science hoax and confirmed fraud horse series is STILL on display at the Smithsonian over 50 years after being publically admitted as a fraud?"?? (We know WHY they do that - it is for emotional "effect" - which is the basis of their speculative arguments all along).

Explain why that sort of junk-religion is not worth adopting -- with its explicit risk of getting you into the Rev 20 lake of fire??

We need to "explain that"??

======================================

Now then ... slowly

Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

This isn't what evolution claims.

It is exactly - what atheist evolutionists "are stuck with" - and other than "wishing" do you have an actual fact showing that instead of starting with the "big pile of dirt" you actually start with "God creating amoebas on planet Earth" or .. some "detail"???

How odd that your response for how blind faith evolutionism proposes we get "rabbits" -- does not address your atheist starting point.

Instead of pointing to a single "detail" in the scenario you simply "game the point"

This is a strawman. You've been told this before. Stop being dishonest.

still gaming??? please present an actual fact - a detail.
Show us your "other starting point" other than the one in the scenario as atheist -- we all know -- you have none.

Fossil records show that eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes about 2 billion years ago. This is through a process of endosymbiosis.

Hint - no fossil record showing transition of anything for bacteria to eukaryote.

50,000 generations of bacteria prove that evolution never stops

http://io9.gizmodo.com/50-000-generations-of-bacteria-prove-that-evolution-nev-1466803805

And YET never gets bacteria to become eukaryote!!

 

[VirOptimus]

But to your question -- you want me to explain why I reject blind-faith evolutionism?

Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

Explain why "prokaryotes never turn into eukaryotes no matter how many millions of generations we observe them?"

Explain why "the Eurey Miller experiment utterly failed to produce viable amino acid building blocks - due to results having randomly distributed chiral orientation of the product amino acids"??

Explain why "junk science confirmed frauds fill the history of junk-science evolutionism over the past 150 years"??

Explain why "Osborn is praised for lying to, and hiding truth from his readers -- to this very day - over at TalkOrigins"??

Explain why "the high-priests of evolutionism - their own well-known scientists, professors and authors LAMENT the distinctively religious and anti-knowledge nature of their own field of study"??

Explain why "Othaniel Marsh' junk-science hoax and confirmed fraud horse series is STILL on display at the Smithsonian over 50 years after being publically admitted as a fraud?"?? (We know WHY they do that - it is for emotional "effect" - which is the basis of their speculative arguments all along).

Explain why that sort of junk-religion is not worth adopting -- with its explicit risk of getting you into the Rev 20 lake of fire??

We need to "explain that"??

======================================

Now then ... slowly

Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”


It is exactly - what atheist evolutionists "are stuck with" - and other than "wishing" do you have an actual fact showing that instead of starting with the "big pile of dirt" you actually start with "God creating amoebas on planet Earth" or .. some "detail"???

How odd that your response for how blind faith evolutionism proposes we get "rabbits" -- does not address your atheist starting point.

Instead of pointing to a single "detail" in the scenario you simply "game the point"



still gaming??? please present an actual fact - a detail.
Show us your "other starting point" other than the one in the scenario as atheist -- we all know -- you have none.



Hint - no fossil record showing transition of anything for bacteria to eukaryote.

50,000 generations of bacteria prove that evolution never stops

http://io9.gizmodo.com/50-000-generations-of-bacteria-prove-that-evolution-nev-1466803805

And YET never gets bacteria to become eukaryote!!

In your own words, what does the theory of evolution entail? How would you define it?

 

[Jimmy D]

Explain why objective thinkers reject the mythology that - "a pile of dirt is sure-enough going to turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently large pile of dirt over a sufficiently talented and long period of time - filled with improbable just-so-stories”

Because it's an inane strawman that bears no relation to the Theory of Evolution.

Explain why "prokaryotes never turn into eukaryotes no matter how many millions of generations we observe them?"

I know little about the subject but there are plenty of articles by people who do, have a read through this one -
http://www2.nau.edu/~gaud/bio372/class/readings/giard.htm

Because it happened once doesn't mean it happens all the time, besides, how do you know the 'never do' how many have you observed and for how long. An argument from ignorance is a very weak argument.

Explain why "the Eurey Miller experiment utterly failed to produce viable amino acid building blocks - due to results having randomly distributed chiral orientation of the product amino acids"??

We're discussing evolution here Bob, keep up.

The explanation is that he didn't simulate the correct conditions for such a thing to happen.

Explain why "junk science confirmed frauds fill the history of junk-science evolutionism over the past 150 years"??

What frauds, what junk science, you're rambling now Bob.

Explain why "Osborn is praised for lying to, and hiding truth from his readers -- to this very day - over at TalkOrigins"??

I don't know what you mean here, who is Osborn and what did he lie about?

Explain why "the high-priests of evolutionism - their own well-known scientists, professors and authors LAMENT the distinctively religious and anti-knowledge nature of their own field of study"??

There are many thousands of Christian scientists who accept and work in the field of Evolution, I suppose that because their brand of religion is different to yours it's them that are wrong.

Explain why "Othaniel Marsh' junk-science hoax and confirmed fraud horse series is STILL on display at the Smithsonian over 50 years after being publically admitted as a fraud?"?? (We know WHY they do that - it is for emotional "effect" - which is the basis of their speculative arguments all along).

I don't think you know what the terms fraud and hoax actually mean?

Explain why that sort of junk-religion is not worth adopting -- with its explicit risk of getting you into the Rev 20 lake of fire??

What junk religion?



Maybe you could take the time to answer my questions now:

a) Aren't the people you enjoy quoting professional scientists and fully accept evolution?

b) Why are you prepared to accept one or two sentences they say which you think support your point,yet reject the other 99.999% of their work which disagrees with your 'opinion'?

c) Does one comment (even if it were shown to be in context) negate actual evidence? Opinions are not facts.

 

[JacksBratt]

It's an explanation for the diversity of life. It has nothing to say about the existence or non existence of a God. Unless you can find scientific research regarding the theory of evolution that explicitly states it it removes the existence of a God, then you are misrepresenting the theory. That is dishonest.



Nor does it try to explain it. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life. So, you're right, it doesn't have anything to say about it because evolution is about the diversity of life not the origin. Do you also reject the germ theory of disease because it doesn't explain where germs came from?



You can ask it all you want. I don't mind. My answer is 'I don't know'. That is the most intellectually honest answer one can give to questions they do not have the answer to. Unless you can provide verifiable and testable evidence to this question, you also do not know the answer. Abiogenesis is an interesting study completely separate from evolution theory.



That's what evolution is. You clearly don't understand it. It explains the diversity of life. How populations of organisms change over time. This is supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence from several independent disciplines. If you want to talk abiogenesis, then open a new thread. The unanswered question for life's origin doesn't threaten evolution in the least bit. Who said anything about a single celled organism "poofing" into existence in a puddle? By the way, we've observed self replicating RNA enzymes in the lab. http://www.cell.com/chemistry-biology/abstract/S1074-5521(13)00426-2



The understanding of evolution has contributed to advancements in modern medicine. Are you going to reject vaccinations because they are made possible by our understanding of evolution?



Evolution is demonstrably true and is supported by an abundance of facts and contradicted by none.

And

Who told you that?

It is quite obvious. People who doubt that there is a God or absolutely deny the existence of God, grab on to the TOE with both hands and fight tooth and nail to keep it on the podium as the only reasonable explanation for the universe, the existence of life and the events that resulted in the world of organisms and species that we have today.

Any other option for these things is ridiculed, discredited, condescended, and ousted while the person presenting said option is insulted and called a fool.

The TOE is one of the great deceptions that will even fool some of the elect. With the TOE, God is totally not necessary and we are just moving forward at the speed of time in a direction determined totally by chance and random factors.

As such, humans are just the end result of a system with no preconceived plan or purpose, which means humans and the human race were not created for any plan or purpose, which means that you, yourself, are just here due to random circumstance with no real reason, purpose or plan. You just exist because you exist. End of a godless story.

The truth is..... God had a plan, a purpose for everything. The universe, the sun, the moon, the earth and every creature on it. He created the earth and each specific creature with a special design and purpose. He cares and feeds every living creature and organism. He is saddened when one of them goes extinct.

But most of all, YOU are a living soul. YOU were planned by God at the beginning of this creation. You are created and exist with a preconceived plan and purpose and your creator loves you and all humans more than any of His creations. Even the angels...

So, is the TOE meant to rid the world of any sniff of an all powerful, loving, caring God? Is it meant to remove any purpose and meaning for your life? Is it meant to deceive you into believing that heaven and hell are just scary bed time stories? Is it one of Satan's best woven plans, perpetuated by the humans who consider themselves to be of great intellect and wisdom, to convince you that he doesn't exist and there is no judgement or day of atonement?

Of course it is. The TOE is "Genesis According to Satan".

 

[TLK Valentine]

It is quite obvious.

You're claiming nobody told you, then?

People who doubt that there is a God or absolutely deny the existence of God, grab on to the TOE with both hands and fight tooth and nail to keep it on the podium as the only reasonable explanation for the universe, the existence of life and the events that resulted in the world of organisms and species that we have today.

Any other option for these things is ridiculed, discredited, condescended, and ousted while the person presenting said option is insulted and called a fool.

Including gods besides your own?

The TOE is one of the great deceptions that will even fool some of the elect.

Because you say so?

With the TOE, God is totally not necessary and we are just moving forward at the speed of time in a direction determined totally by chance and random factors.

Whereas without the TOE, we're... what, exactly?

As such, humans are just the end result of a system with no preconceived plan or purpose, which means humans and the human race were not created for any plan or purpose, which means that you, yourself, are just here due to random circumstance with no real reason, purpose or plan. You just exist because you exist. End of a godless story.

Who says I don't have a plan or purpose? You?

Why do you think your opinion is correct?

The truth is..... God had a plan, a purpose for everything.

In your opinion.

The universe, the sun, the moon, the earth and every creature on it. He created the earth and each specific creature with a special design and purpose. He cares and feeds every living creature and organism. He is saddened when one of them goes extinct.

But most of all, YOU are a living soul. YOU were planned by God at the beginning of this creation.

God loves everything, but he loves us the most, amirite?

You are created and exist with a preconceived plan and purpose and your creator loves you and all humans more than any of His creations. Even the angels...

You're the most important thing in all the universe. I see the appeal.

So, is the TOE meant to rid the world of any sniff of an all powerful, loving, caring God?

Nope -- it just rids the world of wishful thinking and replace it with truth.

Is it meant to remove any purpose and meaning for your life?

Nope -- meaning and purpose are things that are made, not discovered.

Is it meant to deceive you into believing that heaven and hell are just scary bed time stories?

Nope -- most people figured that out long before the TOE.

Is it one of Satan's best woven plans, perpetuated by the humans who consider themselves to be of great intellect and wisdom, to convince you that he doesn't exist and there is no judgement or day of atonement?

Nope -- that's just your wishful thinking.

Of course it is. The TOE is "Genesis According to Satan".

In your opinion -- and while you might be the most important thing in this universe in your own mind, that's pretty much where the influence stops.

 

[Hieronymus]

Including gods besides your own?

That's such an unnecessary and ignorant question....
Can't you make just a little effort to get to understand what you disagree with?
sigh...

You seem like a nice person though.

 

[JacksBratt]

Bible reading make me believe that the Bible gives two distinct scenarios where healing took place -- in some cases it says it is disease and sickness... in other places it says that demons are involved -- depending on cases.

of course your eye-witness diagnosis as to which was which is presumably better than the Bible since you are 2000 years removed from the event.

Do you see a problem with your argument?

You are right, IMO, disease could be natural causes or supernatural..
(this is an aside to "bobryan")
You may be interested in a book I just read. The true life story of a child born in Haiti to a couple that paid a witch doctor money so they could have a son. The witch doctor demanded that when this boy child was born, that it (he) be dedicated to Satan and become the witch doctor's apprentice. This all happened and they took the boy to be dedicated and he was learning the witch doctor trade when he learned about a spirit that was more powerful than any of the ones that they deal with and use as tools. This spirit was God. He became a christian and the book follows his life until present day.

The book is called "Prince of Vodou, Breaking the Chains" by Heather Rae Rodin.

The stories of the super natural are many and as one critique of the book stated...."it reads like fiction but it's not".

If you don't believe in the power of the enemy and the ways they affect our reality, you will after you read this book.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's such an unnecessary and ignorant question....
Can't you make just a little effort to get to understand what you disagree with?
sigh...

You seem like a nice person though.

Nothing ignorant or unnecessary about it -- I've seen plenty of contempt from Christians directed at non-Christians... and I don't mean Atheists; I'm talking about sincere believers in the "wrong" gods.

And that's not even getting into the contempt, mockery, and willful ignorance directed at the TOE -- and "godless" science in general -- from believers who either don't know or don't care what they're really arguing against.

A few examples:

"The belief that nothing exploded and BOOM! Here we are."
"If we came from moneys, why are their still monkeys?"
"How does evolution explain love/faith/evil/morality etc..."
"If evolution is true, why don't we see a dog turn into a cat?"
"I want wings... why can't I evolve them?"

You think these people are genuinely that ignorant? Don't talk to me about unnecessary or ignorant questions... Matthew 7:5, and all that.

 

[Hieronymus]

Nothing ignorant or unnecessary about it.

I disagree.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I disagree.

I've noticed. When you're ready to discuss, not dismiss, I'll be here.