Here I stand, my conscience being bound, I can do no other.

[Xeno.of.athens]

We the inspirer of the scripture dwelling within us to help us, with scripture.

Yet "we" disagree; surely the Spirit is not in internal conflict with himself, teaching this and contradicting with that.

 

[bling]

There are Baptists who think and teach what you wrote, Presbyterians too, Lutherans, Methodists, Christian Reformed Church people, Seventh Day Adventists, Anglicans, and many more. They do not live in shared communion, nor have the same faith, nor think the say way; in short they are brethren but not walking in agreement. All follow their consciences to a degree, all make the claim that the Spirit guided their church to where it is, or that the Spirit guided them individually to where they are. Yet they do not agree so they are not achieving what Paul wrote and what Jesus taught as well as the old testament psalmists and prophets; namely,

And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors: For the perfecting of the saints, for the word of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Until we all meet into the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the age of the fulness of Christ: That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive. But doing the truth in charity, we may in all things grow up in him who is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body, being compacted and fitly joined together, by what every joint supplieth, according to the operation in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body, unto the edifying of itself in charity. ​

Ephesians 4:11-16 DRB

The problem is not with the guidance (Spirit and Bible), but with people. There are false spirits want to guide you, which are not interpreting scripture correctly. We are all going to be judged individually and we all had the prefect guide Spirit and Scripture, so we cannot "blame" other religious people who might be following some misguided leader. We need to be like the Bereans and check for ourselves in scripture to see if the other person is agreeing or not agreeing with scripture.

What I have found in the West are some people in every denomination I have studies with being true to the mission and others not true to the mission, so I have to be true no matter what others might believe, I am only subject to God.

 

[bling]

Yet "we" disagree; surely the Spirit is not in internal conflict with himself, teaching this and contradicting with that.

Those guided by the Spirit are in perfect agreement, but the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit out there and people will let their own selfish spirit guide them.
Mark 9:39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.
I have said many things, do you feel we are against each other or in just disagreement at this time with each other? I like my thinking to be challenged and it helps me build my believes, so you help me.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The problem is not with the guidance (Spirit and Bible), but with people.

The people; like you? Are you wrong about the things you feel the Spirit guided you into?

 

[HTacianas]

In civil matters the USA does not function as if the constitution is to be interpreted by individuals according to their conscience. If you interpret it in ways that the Law forbids you go to jail if your disagreement results in arrest; some disagreements end in shootings.

You run into the same problems with the bible.

 

[bling]

The people; like you? Are you wrong about the things you feel the Spirit guided you into?

Nothing He guides me to know, and I can say the same thing for everyone. But the questions should be: "How do you know it is the Spirit guiding you?" Yes, I can quench the Spirit and go it alone, but that also gets me into trouble, bad results, and further sins. When I come to the realization, I have quenched the Spirit (resulting in my sinning), I repent and now have a chance to truly understand. Most of the time it has to do with: "Why do I need to know?" My motive has to be pure for the Spirit to help me. If it is academic, intellectual, to win an argument, to make me look good before others, to write a book I can sell and so on, the Spirit will not be helping me.
The Spirit also guides me into places, I do not really want to go, but would be good for me.

 

[BobRyan]

Let scripture alone be your final authority above all human authority and the final appeal is always to be made to the scriptures. This is what many believe. If you do believe it, is it serving you adequately? Is it adequate for a community? Can it serve for all?

Amen it works great.

And notice what we have in Acts 17:11 where even non-Christian evaluate the Apostle Paul's teaching on that basis.

Notice the strong recommendation we have for that very same model from Christ Himself in Mark 7:7-13

 

[BobRyan]

In civil matters the USA does not function as if the constitution is to be interpreted by individuals according to their conscience. If you interpret it in ways that the Law forbids you go to jail if your disagreement results in arrest; some disagreements end in shootings.

scriptures "did not change" in Mark 7:6-13 just because the official magesterium of the one-true-nation church started by God at Sinai -- starting making stuff up that contradicted scripture. Jesus pointed out that though His own church magesterium were making stuff up - yet scripture was clear enough for all those listening to see that the church leaders , their traditions, there long held traditions were in some cases - in error

 

[BobRyan]

There are Baptists who think and teach what you wrote, Presbyterians too, Lutherans, Methodists, Christian Reformed Church people, Seventh Day Adventists, Anglicans, and many more. They do not live in shared communion, nor have the same faith

err... ummm...

Adventists hold open communion with them all.

Any member of those denominations can attend a worship and communion service in the Adventist church - and participate in communion.

That does not mean we agree with all of their doctrine.

 

[Philip_B]

There are Baptists who think and teach what you wrote, Presbyterians too, Lutherans, Methodists, Christian Reformed Church people, Seventh Day Adventists, Anglicans, and many more. They do not live in shared communion, nor have the same faith, nor think the same way; in short they are brethren but not walking in agreement. All follow their consciences to a degree, all make the claim that the Spirit guided their church to where it is, or that the Spirit guided them individually to where they are. Yet they do not agree so they are not achieving what Paul wrote and what Jesus taught as well as the old testament psalmists and prophets; namely,

And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors: For the perfecting of the saints, for the word of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Until we all meet into the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the age of the fulness of Christ: That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive. But doing the truth in charity, we may in all things grow up in him who is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body, being compacted and fitly joined together, by what every joint supplieth, according to the operation in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body, unto the edifying of itself in charity. ​

Ephesians 4:11-16 DRB

There is the matter of being 'in communion' and the matter of having communion in the liturgy of one another.

Many (maybe most) Anglicans recognise that we are not in Communion with the RCC. Our view is that the Eucharist we celebrate is celebrated at the Lord's Table, and it is offered in company with Angels and Archangels and all the company of heaven. We celebrate something bigger than ourselves, and we celebrate in a Church bigger than we are, and all the baptised are welcome. This may seem an extraordinary statement, but it is entirely in keeping with the Nicene Symbol where we declare that We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I recognise that if I attend an RCC liturgy I am not welcome to receive, and I accept that, as it is not my problem.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There is the matter of being 'in communion' and the matter of having communion in the liturgy of one another.

The two can be the same and ought to be if the persons in question live close to one another and to a local parish church.

Many (maybe most) Anglicans recognise that we are not in Communion with the RCC.

This is not the matter I was thinking about nor what I wrote about. I was thinking of some Anglican, evangelical Anglicans is what many call them.

Our view is that the Eucharist we celebrate is celebrated at the Lord's Table, and it is offered in company with Angels and Archangels and all the company of heaven. We celebrate something bigger than ourselves, and we celebrate in a Church bigger than we are

All this I believe also, and all this is taught in and by the Catholic Church.

and all the baptised are welcome.

Were there genuine communion between Catholic and Protestant it would imply sharing in the body and blood, the soul and divinity of Christ. This should be so, but it is not, it is? Not with Baptists and Presbyterians who do not share Catholic faith in the real presence though some may hold to a belief in airitual real presence.

This may seem an extraordinary statement, but it is entirely in keeping with the Nicene Symbol where we declare that We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

When the creed was written there was truly ONE, holy, catholic and apostolic church. But this is not so now. As we both know all too well there are many divided churches and independent groups and protestant denominations. And though some may believe in a Church that, on earth, is invisible because it is composed of individual believers scattered across the denominations but united in Christ. And I am not contradicting them on the matter of scattered genuine Christians in the denominations, I am in truth, inclined to think of most Protestants in their denominations as brothers in Christ. But their beliefs do preclude them from truthfully saying "amen" when the host is received as the words are said "The Body of Christ" and also when the chalice is received with the words "the blood of Christ". So, for their own sakes, because it is not right and fit to receive the host and the precious blood with a false word on one's lips.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

err... ummm...

Adventists hold open communion with them all.

Any member of those denominations can attend a worship and communion service in the Adventist church - and participate in communion.

That does not mean we agree with all of their doctrine.

That is true of the bread and wine (grape juice?) in your communion services, and it is generous of SDAs to be open in that way, but SDA and Baptist are not in communion about beliefs, and observances.