• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Herding Goats

Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnDB

Regular Member
May 16, 2007
4,256
1,289
nashville
✟61,421.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To take the devil's advocate position here.
I have seen many times a man apply for the job of a pastorate and lie about what kind of theology they truly support or abilities they have. Then when the congregation becomes aware of what this pastor is promoting or that he can't do and then they make his tenure there uncomfortable...he declares them all Goats and quits right before he gets dismissed.

I have seen this many many times. It has even happened to my Uncle...and he deserved to be forced into resigning. He has since learned the lesson and is once again in the pulpit. He carefully and purposefully made sure that they wanted and needed him and not someone else with different characteristics. And he currently is flourishing in the role and membership is increasing. (and he is like me...non calvinistic and non armenian)
 
Upvote 0

TimRout

Biblicist
Feb 27, 2008
4,762
221
54
Ontario
✟21,217.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
To take the devil's advocate position here.
I have seen many times a man apply for the job of a pastorate and lie about what kind of theology they truly support or abilities they have. Then when the congregation becomes aware of what this pastor is promoting or that he can't do and then they make his tenure there uncomfortable...he declares them all Goats and quits right before he gets dismissed.

I have seen this many many times. It has even happened to my Uncle...and he deserved to be forced into resigning. He has since learned the lesson and is once again in the pulpit. He carefully and purposefully made sure that they wanted and needed him and not someone else with different characteristics. And he currently is flourishing in the role and membership is increasing. (and he is like me...non calvinistic and non armenian)
You're right John. Candidates have to be careful to represent themselves honestly before a search committee. I find it odd, however, that you have seen this unfortunate scenario play out time and time again. In sixteen years of ministry, I've seen it only twice. Nevertheless, perhaps dishonest candidates are more prevalent in the churches you attend. :)
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
A pastor I know is praying about leaving his pastorate. The church knows his feelings. He is taking them through, verse by verse, Pauls letters to Timothy and Titus. One of the problems is the current system (and I do not know a practical way to solve the problem) we use to find pastors. Most often we advertise an opening and form a committee, then men we do not know apply, and visit, and preach a Sunday or two. Then there is a vote. There is no real knowing the character and theology of the man.

My friend, who is teaching his church the standards for elders and deacons, is encouraging them to take time and really know the candidates. I am tempted to move there, and live and work, and then apply for the position. I do not like the idea of just applying and doing things long distance, but I am unsure of the best solution at this time.
 
Upvote 0

TimRout

Biblicist
Feb 27, 2008
4,762
221
54
Ontario
✟21,217.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
A pastor I know is praying about leaving his pastorate. The church knows his feelings. He is taking them through, verse by verse, Pauls letters to Timothy and Titus. One of the problems is the current system (and I do not know a practical way to solve the problem) we use to find pastors. Most often we advertise an opening and form a committee, then men we do not know apply, and visit, and preach a Sunday or two. Then there is a vote. There is no real knowing the character and theology of the man.

My friend, who is teaching his church the standards for elders and deacons, is encouraging them to take time and really know the candidates. I am tempted to move there, and live and work, and then apply for the position. I do not like the idea of just applying and doing things long distance, but I am unsure of the best solution at this time.
That sounds like a very rational approach, for a Christian Anarchist. :p
 
Upvote 0

JohnDB

Regular Member
May 16, 2007
4,256
1,289
nashville
✟61,421.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You're right John. Candidates have to be careful to represent themselves honestly before a search committee. I find it odd, however, that you have seen this unfortunate scenario play out time and time again. In sixteen years of ministry, I've seen it only twice. Nevertheless, perhaps dishonest candidates are more prevalent in the churches you attend. :)

You would be correct...it is usually because the candidate is Calvinist or a "grace doctrine" baptist and we have clearly explained our desires. They lie to get the job and do not respect our position. They think that we have never heard the Calvinistic doctrines and that somehow we will be converted and drawn to their beliefs. :doh:

Calvinsm is dime a dozen...we could be members of any number of those churchs if we wanted. BUT WE DON'T

My uncle...he went to a non-denominational church that leaned Nazarene and he was Charismatic (at the time...he has since reformed).

I have no clue as to what he was thinking...or any of them for that matter.
 
Upvote 0

mlqurgw

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2005
5,828
540
70
kain tuck ee
✟8,844.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
A pastor I know is praying about leaving his pastorate. The church knows his feelings. He is taking them through, verse by verse, Pauls letters to Timothy and Titus. One of the problems is the current system (and I do not know a practical way to solve the problem) we use to find pastors. Most often we advertise an opening and form a committee, then men we do not know apply, and visit, and preach a Sunday or two. Then there is a vote. There is no real knowing the character and theology of the man.

My friend, who is teaching his church the standards for elders and deacons, is encouraging them to take time and really know the candidates. I am tempted to move there, and live and work, and then apply for the position. I do not like the idea of just applying and doing things long distance, but I am unsure of the best solution at this time.
Do you think the current system is Biblical? If it isn't why isn't it. What is the Biblical method? Not intending to throw a bunch of questions at you but I think we need to get to the root of the problem before we can even begin to consider the remedy.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
That sounds like a very rational approach, for a Christian Anarchist. :p

^_^ My nickname was given to me by a dear CF member, that sadly left some time ago. She called me that because I tried to remain biblical, and I busted the chops of legalists. God has standards and we are called to be obedient, we do not need the bondage of manmade rules.


Col 2 is probably my favorite chapter.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Do you think the current system is Biblical? If it isn't why isn't it. What is the Biblical method? Not intending to throw a bunch of questions at you but I think we need to get to the root of the problem before we can even begin to consider the remedy.

I think the biblical example is to plant churches and then raise up local leaders. Granted this is not commanded, but my opinion is it would be preferable.
 
Upvote 0

TimRout

Biblicist
Feb 27, 2008
4,762
221
54
Ontario
✟21,217.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I think the biblical example is to plant churches and then raise up local leaders. Granted this is not commanded, but my opinion is it would be preferable.
I agree! That's what we did at The Bridge and it's working brilliantly. New church, no baggage.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I agree! That's what we did at The Bridge and it's working brilliantly. New church, no baggage.

so what is the practical solution? Does every new pastor start his own church? Unless raised up in and for a specific church, of course.
 
Upvote 0

TimRout

Biblicist
Feb 27, 2008
4,762
221
54
Ontario
✟21,217.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
so what is the practical solution? Does every new pastor start his own church? Unless raised up in and for a specific church, of course.
In our denomination, we strongly encourage older, more established churches to plant a series of smaller daughter works -- each pastored by a fairly young man -- perhaps a recent Sem grad. Small churches tend to do the most significant soul winning. If we start focusing on kingdom growth and forget about church growth, I suspect things will go a bit better.
 
Upvote 0

TimRout

Biblicist
Feb 27, 2008
4,762
221
54
Ontario
✟21,217.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
In fact, the FEB is somewhat less than united on how church planting ought to be done. There is an old school mode of thinking that says little churches should be left to struggle, since (to their minds) this will better prove whether the work is worthy of survival; I think the philosophy suggests that only those churches strong enough to grow on their own deserve support. Of course, the churches that hold this perspective are contrasted heavily against those who see it as their joy and duty to help smaller churches launch and thrive. I hate to say it, but practically speaking it often comes down to how long the planting Pastor can stay on scene -- and that requires $.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
what do they do in areas where physical growth is impossible?


I know of a small non-denom church in SD that is basically the town. The church building is what you see when you go to mapquest. It is surrounded by ranches that started as homesteads. There is almost no population growth. The closest town is 45 minutes away. A small feud between a couple of families can cut your attendance in half in a week.


This is actually a church I am seriously considering. I'd love to serve them.
 
Upvote 0

JohnDB

Regular Member
May 16, 2007
4,256
1,289
nashville
✟61,421.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm a big fan of Paul washer. I'm am in full agreemwnt with him in that the gospel that is preached today in many churches is not the same gospel as the Apostle Paul taught . Churches are more caught up in numbers and entertainment than they they are in preaching the power of the gospel, sin and repentence..

Where I do agree with what you are saying is true...

I often do feel like celebrating the fact that God loves me and likes me and calls me his friend...and that there is now no condemnation for those of us in Christ Jesus.

And all the fire and brimstone preaching misses out on that often.
 
Upvote 0

TimRout

Biblicist
Feb 27, 2008
4,762
221
54
Ontario
✟21,217.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
what do they do in areas where physical growth is impossible?


I know of a small non-denom church in SD that is basically the town. The church building is what you see when you go to mapquest. It is surrounded by ranches that started as homesteads. There is almost no population growth. The closest town is 45 minutes away. A small feud between a couple of families can cut your attendance in half in a week.


This is actually a church I am seriously considering. I'd love to serve them.
Thankfully, there are a few large churches who see daughtering as a serious duty. They plant what they call "mission churches" in small communities that will never have any hope of becoming self-supporting, and fund them forever.

In other cases (like mine) the pastoral staff are all bivocational. At The Bridge, all three of our staff make most of their living outside ministry. My two brothers are unpaid by the church. Since my duties are slightly more demanding, I receive a small salary that suplements my secular income. When it comes to small northern Canadian communities, it is unrealistic to think a church will ever be able to support even one full time Pastor on their own.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Where I do agree with what you are saying is true...

I often do feel like celebrating the fact that God loves me and likes me and calls me his friend...and that there is now no condemnation for those of us in Christ Jesus.

And all the fire and brimstone preaching misses out on that often.


Peoples souls are at risk. It is urgent that they recognize their need and their sinful states. There is a time and palce for fire and brimstone and not very many people have the love and zeal it takes to preach those messages.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Thankfully, there are a few large churches who see daughtering as a serious duty. They plant what they call "mission churches" in small communities that will never have any hope of becoming self-supporting, and fund them forever.

In other cases (like mine) the pastoral staff are all bivocational. At The Bridge, all three of our staff make most of their living outside ministry. My two brothers are unpaid by the church. Since my duties are slightly more demanding, I receive a small salary that suplements my secular income. When it comes to small northern Canadian communities, it is unrealistic to think a church will ever be able to support even one full time Pastor on their own.

:thumbsup: that works
 
Upvote 0
N

nhisname

Guest
Where I do agree with what you are saying is true...

I often do feel like celebrating the fact that God loves me and likes me and calls me his friend...and that there is now no condemnation for those of us in Christ Jesus.

And all the fire and brimstone preaching misses out on that often.
What I'm concerned about are the ones who are ignorant of scripture. Repentence of sin needs to be preached right along with forgiveness and love. How many people go forward and after repeating a prayer think themselves saved never repenting of sin or even know what sin is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mont974x4
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.