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Herd Immunity?

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Saricharity, Jan 28, 2015.

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  1. Saricharity

    Saricharity Follower of Christ

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  2. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    Suzanne Humphries is a well known quack.

    While she is an MD, she is a kidney specialist and has no formal training on immunology. She's also a proponent of things like homeopathy and other types of woo. None of her anti-vaxxer claims stand up to scrutiny, and that article is a bunch of hogwash.

    Herd immunity is a valuable tool in controlling disease. Some people are not physically able to receive vaccinations for a number of reasons. They could be allergic to the vaccines, they could have a compromised immune system, etc.

    However, if everyone they are around is immune to various forms of disease, they have very little risk of acquiring the disease they couldn't be immunized against.

    So yes, herd immunity is a very important thing for public health.
     
  3. Blue Wren

    Blue Wren Well-Known Member

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    The site is not reputable, in the least, no. To say Suzanne Humphries is a quack, that is being polite. She spoke in my home city, last fall. No. Just no. You can see, from the site, they are selling books, to promote their pseudoscience. Most legitimate medical sites, do not do this, no.

    Suzanne Humphries - RationalWiki
    "Suzanne Humphries is a nephrologist (kidney doctor) who has recently (as of 2011) become a vocal proponent of pseudoscience and quack medicine. Humphries has been involved with the International Medical Council on Vaccination, a front group for vaccine hysteria, and is a signer of the organization's anti-vax Project Steve petition. She has written several blog posts and done several podcasts and interviews insinuating that kidney failure is caused by vaccines.[1][2] Humphries uses this purely anecdotal, unstudied, "feeling" of vaccines' role in kidney disease to try and justify why her complete lack of training in any relevant field of immunology or vaccines doesn't disqualify her as an "expert" on the topic.
    In 2010 Humphries announced she had embraced homeopathy, having studied it for four years. Her level of homeopathic certification is unclear—she is repeatedly referred to as being "at the end of her studies."[3][4] As part of Humphries's embrace of homeopathy, she swallowed the kool-aid of a very extreme version of vitalism and goes around the Internet claiming that homeopathy works by fixing energy flows in the body.[3]. Humphries claims that homeopathy is a "more advanced system" than evidence based modern medicine; she states that "allopathic" medicine tends to exacerbate the forces that drive chronic illness.[3].
    She recommends that people limit their medical care only to homeopaths, chiropractors, and osteopaths. Despite this, she still appears to be working her day job as a nephrologist at the Northeast Nephrology Clinic in Bangor, Maine.
    On NaturalNews she has expressed frustration that her edits to this page keep getting reverted, and "they put back their lies right away" and "at least half the information on there about me is completely falsified."[5]
    She has also attempted to combine anti-vax sentiment with poorly-thought-out religious gobbledygook (i.e., lies purportedly based on scripture) in an effort to convince somebody that the Bible and Koran are opposed to vaccination. Pull the other leg, please.[6]"


    Herd immunity is true, and it is very important, yes, yes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  4. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    My doctor believes herd immunity is real, and a benefit. I buy it; it makes sense to me. Any disease is going to have a hard time triggering an epidemic if 99.9% of the population is vaccinated and immune to it.
     
  5. Paulos23

    Paulos23 part of the Rebel Alliance

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    Herd Immunity is real, I have a friend with a weak immune system and can't get vacinated and rely on it to stay healthy. His friends stay up on our shots to keep him healthy. (and keep away from him when we have the flu, etc.)

    I really don't get how anyone can say it is not real.
     
  6. Saricharity

    Saricharity Follower of Christ

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    Thanks for your views. :)
     
  7. hankroberts

    hankroberts Guest

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    "Herd Immunity" basically only says that if a majority of a group is immune (or immunized by vaccination) then the non-immune have a lesser chance of contracting a disease through cross-contamination or exposure. Statistically, it is unavoidably true. The fewer potential carriers in a group, the less the potential for any given individual to be contaminated through personal transfer.
     
  8. Stanfordella

    Stanfordella Keeping calm and carrying on

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    I am not familiar with that woman or organization, but herd immunity is most assuredly not a myth. As someone with a woefully incompetent immune system, each person who is properly vaccinated is like a benefactor to my wellbeing. As you know, with my Addison's Disease and other issues I'm a skinny blonde sponge of a human being, soaking up all ickiness and illnesses. I'm only partially surprised I haven't gotten your current funk via texting with you, haha. (jk) Even though I have received proper vaccinations I am more vulnerable because my lackluster immune system is not as efficient at fulfilling its duties. Pregnant women, the elderly, people undergoing chemotherapy, and those with undutiful immune systems are also more susceptible to measles and other preventable illnesses even if they have been vaccinated adequately themselves. The measles outbreak that began at Disneyland has spawned problems throughout SoCal, infecting my boyfriend's former baseball coach, kids at my friend's high schools, and most recently a darling little girl at my dance studio. I'm not prone to paranoia or cautionary by nature, but it's something that legitimately concerns me.

    This article explains how vaccinated people at Disneyland still got the measles:
    Why Did Vaccinated People Get Measles at Disneyland? Blame the Unvaccinated | WIRED

    I got chickenpox as a baby before I was old enough for the vaccination from a playmate of my older brother's. Though it's usually only a cause of intense but temporary misery for healthy children rather than a reason for extreme concern, it was very serious for me because I was born so prematurely and already in a fragile condition. I have no memory of it because I was so tiny, but my family has said that it was frightening. I was hospitalized due to it leading to sepsis, which was serious. The virus that caused chickenpox remained dormant in my body until I had a prolonged illness last year at sixteen that knocked down my feeble immune system, and it erupted as excruciatingly awful shingles. My shingles were on exposed areas of my body, so if I had held a baby too young to be vaccinated close to me during that time, I could have passed the virus on to her and caused her to have chickenpox. Fortunately, my siblings were already old enough to have been vaccinated, and I was careful to minimize close interaction.

    This brief article explains how herd immunity caused a dramatic drop in infant chickenpox:

     
  9. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    Anti-vaxxers are some of the most harmful and dangerous types of science denialists.
     
  10. hankroberts

    hankroberts Guest

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    It should be noted that not all people who turn down vaccinations are denying science.

    And while I firmly agree on the value of them and the importance, ultimately (in this nation) it is a matter of individual rights: each person/parent has the right to determine their own medical care. This is why, when I worked on an ambulance, I could not force medical care on someone who refused treatment, even though I knew they needed it. The law says they have the right to refuse treatment, for any reason or no reason at all.
     
  11. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

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    But, imo, they don't have the right to make other people sick by not getting their kids, or themselves, vaccinated. That said, I am not for government mandated vaccinations - yet.
     
  12. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    This is more than simply personal health care though, this is a public health issue.

    I love the idea that they instituted in Australia recently, and may be a good way to get around this issue.

    Being able to claim a child tax benefit is tied to certain things, getting required vaccinations is one of them. If you choose not to get your kid vaccinated, then you lose the thousands of dollars in tax benefits you would otherwise be able to claim.


    Edit: If your child has a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated (i.e. an allergy to the vaccine) then you can be exempted from this requirement.
     
  13. hankroberts

    hankroberts Guest

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    Well, either our health and medical decisions are ours to make, or they are not. If they are, then I am free to reject a vaccination. If the government gets to decide, then as a paramedic (when I was one) I could have forced care on someone who didn't want it. Nope: not going down that road.
     
  14. hankroberts

    hankroberts Guest

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    In this country, the right of the individual to his own person is considered an inherent right. I have exactly no right to force medical treatment on you. And I don't want any such right.
     
  15. Paulos23

    Paulos23 part of the Rebel Alliance

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    Give the success of vaccines in getting rid of dease and the lack of it bringing it back, I would be in support of it.

    I think the evidence is too strong for it not to be done.
     
  16. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    The right of the individual is still maintained in that scenario.

    Tax benefits are not a right that you have, tax benefits are given as incentives, or (as the name implies), benefits to help alleviate the cost of certain things.

    If you are refusing to get your kid vaccinated, and therefore potentially helping to create a public health problem, then you should lose that tax benefit. Your tax dollars will be going to help clean up the problem you, or people like you are helping to create. I think that's completely justifiable.
     
  17. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

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    If it is a situation that could only affect the individual in question, let them refuse all the care they want. But if it's a situation that potentially affects other people, then I say they may not necessarily have that right. Getting your arm sliced off in a car accident is one such condition that would affect only the injured party. If they refuse treatment, so be it. If a person refuses to get a polio vaccine, they are potentially harming other people, and I do mind that.


    The evidence is too strong. But hopefully this "anti-vaxxer" craze will be dead and gone in another few years, so maybe it won't even have to come to that. Maybe.
     
  18. keith99

    keith99 sola dosis facit venenum

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    Nope. It will never die. Sorry but that is the truth. It will be line a sine wave offset from actual outbreaks. A few more nasty outbreaks and the percentage of anti-vaxxers will decrease significantly, potentially to the level where it does not seem to matter. And it would not except anti-vax is itself like a disease and a small pool of anti-vaxxers will serve as a source of infection 50 years from now, when everyone thought anti-vax was wiped out. It will then bloom again and will be followed by outbreaks of actual diseases.

    And the cycle will continue farther into the future than I care to predict.
     
  19. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

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    Perhaps you are right. But I find myself clinging to the hope that one day people will stop being stupid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  20. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    I agree, that in most cases, people have the right to refuse being treated.

    With that said, this is the interesting part; at what point, does putting society in general at risk (because of refusal to vaccinate) does this refusal become compelling enough, to compel children to be vaccinated?

    Let's say polio made a come back, because of people refusing to vaccinate their children. Would you risk your children being around others you know are not vaccinated?
     
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