Help with Ex 34:6-8

[Rose_bud]

It is a 'both and' not an 'either or'

Totally, Gods wrath is a just response to a violation of His Holiness. As to the post, I see this passage through a lens of love, that even though the Israelites would be sent into exile for their idolatry, God was giving Jeremiah a hopeful sign that they would return, (the title deed in the clay pots) Jeremiah 32:13-15. Jeremiah prays appealing to the character of Gods love and justice.

Jeremiah 32:18-19 You show loving devotion to thousands but lay the iniquity of the fathers into the laps of their children after them, O great and mighty God whose name is the LORD of Hosts, the One great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are on all the ways of the sons of men, to reward each one according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds.

Their failure to uphold the treaty they signed with God, resulted in their exile. But God is just in his divine wrath but His mercy transcends... Most commentaries highlight the literary style of the author contrasting Gods graciousness and mercy to the thousands compared to the discipline exacted against the third and forth. I agree with this, its consistent with Gods dealing with all of humanity especially in light of the forgiveness and love we have received in Christ. His love outweighs...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Totally, Gods wrath is a just response to a violation of His Holiness. As to the post, I see this passage through a lens of love, that even though the Israelites would be sent into exile for their idolatry, God was giving Jeremiah a hopeful sign that they would return, (the title deed in the clay pots) Jeremiah 32:13-15. Jeremiah prays appealing to the character of Gods love and justice.

Jeremiah 32:18-19 You show loving devotion to thousands but lay the iniquity of the fathers into the laps of their children after them, O great and mighty God whose name is the LORD of Hosts, the One great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are on all the ways of the sons of men, to reward each one according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds.

Their failure to uphold the treaty they signed with God, resulted in their exile. But God is just in his divine wrath but His mercy transcends... Most commentaries highlight the literary style of the author contrasting Gods graciousness and mercy to the thousands compared to the discipline exacted against the third and forth. I agree with this, its consistent with Gods dealing with all of humanity especially in light of the forgiveness and love we have received in Christ. His love outweighs...

Yes what you say is very important - particularly in the light of matters concerning the Jews today.

 

[honey badger]

Friends - Does this principle apply to believers in the New Covenant - please give Scriptural support for you understanding.

Exodus 34

6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in faithfulness and truth; 7 who keeps faithfulness for thousands, who forgives wrongdoing, violation of His Law, and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, inflicting the punishment of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.” 8 And Moses hurried to bow low toward the ground and worship.

All responses appreciated.

its all about process of a son becoming clean as in acceptable

Each generation lives in the narrative they define (as each individual does ) blending and mixing their perception with that which was before them but at the same time trying to break away from the bondage they perceive the last generation to be snared by, only to become this same thing to the next generation, and often becoming the very thing they despised in the first place.

Job only saw his grand children to the fourth generation ...

But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full

Daniel 3:24-26 speaks to this

ps: the word four in Hebrew is dalet which means door

I am the door. If anyone enters in by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and will go out and will find pasture.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Friends - Does this principle apply to believers in the New Covenant - please give Scriptural support for you understanding.

Exodus 34

6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in faithfulness and truth; 7 who keeps faithfulness for thousands, who forgives wrongdoing, violation of His Law, and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, inflicting the punishment of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.” 8 And Moses hurried to bow low toward the ground and worship.

All responses appreciated.

Jeremiah 31:27-30

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will plant the kingdoms of Israel and Judah with the offspring of people and of animals. 28 Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” declares the Lord. 29 “In those days people will no longer say,

‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

^^^ No. The Exodus passage doesn't apply under the New Covenant.

Does God "Visit the Sins of the Fathers on the Children"?

Great and lasting things are at stake for future generations not only because of what we teach, but also because of what we are.

www.desiringgod.org

^^^ nice little teaching on the topic.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Friends - Does this principle apply to believers in the New Covenant - please give Scriptural support for you understanding.

Exodus 34

6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in faithfulness and truth; 7 who keeps faithfulness for thousands, who forgives wrongdoing, violation of His Law, and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, inflicting the punishment of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.” 8 And Moses hurried to bow low toward the ground and worship.

All responses appreciated.

No, does not apply to NT believers.
In looking ahead to the fulfillment of the work of the Messiah the LORD says these words to Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:29-32:
29 “In those days people will no longer say,

‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

 

[Veni]

Ezekiel 18
A father cannot save his son.
A son cannot save his father.

Matthew 10:36
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So we seem to agree that as far as judgement goes there is no transfer of guilt across generations in the New Covenant.

However that does not mean a next generation cannot be affected by the sins of the previous - correct ???

 

[Veni]

So we seem to agree that as far as judgement goes there is no transfer of guilt across generations in the New Covenant.

However that does not mean a next generation cannot be affected by the sins of the previous - correct ???

Agreed

 

[Veni]

So if a father cannot save his son, he is not a father.

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

 

[Veni]

Exodus 34
The punishment only can be inflicted, if children becomes a father.... Hmmm

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can we have a few more comments on Post #27 please.

I repeat it here.

====================================================

So we seem to agree that as far as judgement goes there is no transfer of guilt across generations in the New Covenant.

However that does not mean a next generation cannot be affected by the sins of the previous - correct ???

====================================================

 

[I's2C]

Friends - Does this principle apply to believers in the New Covenant - please give Scriptural support for you understanding.

Exodus 34

6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in faithfulness and truth; 7 who keeps faithfulness for thousands, who forgives wrongdoing, violation of His Law, and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, inflicting the punishment of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.” 8 And Moses hurried to bow low toward the ground and worship.

All responses appreciated.

Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
It simply means that if people don't turn from their ways and still commit the sins their fathers did such as idolatry that they would continue in punishments of that sin; Ill go a step further, even if they still practice idolatry for 100 generations and not turn from it, they will get the same punishment their fathers did. GOD never changes and HIS punishments don't change either. If you are thinking that someone gets punishment for what their fathers did, that is not what is meant, for if they turn from the sins of their fathers and to GOD they will be forgiven and even blessed.