HELP!my husband is really not who I thought he was

[worriedmommie]

1. You will never get anybody to agree on this. The best solution is to talk to your pastor and to God and go from there. Personally, I think it’s too early to start worrying about remarrying. Decide on and get through a divorce first.

This is something I am praying over when I complete my personal introspection I will approach my community of faith for some extrospection.

2. You are on the Titanic. Worry less about the furnishings of your potential rescue boat and more about getting off the Titanic. I get your family isn’t in the area, but with the jokes and insensitivity, I’d find a new place to stay.

Right now their place is the most stable place for my son. I can move too far away because of his school situation. He is autistic and I don't want to upend his life anymore. As a mother the least I can do is develop a thicker skin and take the teasing with good humor. Please don't judge then they are truly good people. For all my sister in law's husband's immature jackassery, he had been very kind and has refrained from joking around my son. My second point of introspection want meant to criticize my benefactors it was more something that lead me to consider if my own moral compass was out of whack. Basically it is just a shocker when people who openly profess their rejection of social morals and normatives ate the ones who show the most love as compared to those who champion the social order.

3. That is a 100% normal and rational feeling. You’re not wrong for feeling it.

Glad to know it's normal but still feels not right though

4. There’s what we see in others, there’s what they show us, and there’s what there is. I would not throw out my morality because people who are immoral to my standards appear happier than me. Morality doesn’t promise we will have easy lives. It just promises we aren’t inviting more problems from bad decisions on top of the problems we all get. Again, I’d look less outward and more inward. Your truth will never will live up to the comparisons made by somebody else’s best.

For me the question is not as simple as "should I reject morality to live more comfortable? "The answer to that is emphatically no. My question is more over arcing and is more of what exactly is moral or immoral? For the longest time I believed that my sister in law and her husband lubed an immoral life because they engaged in fraud, decite, and rebellion. I believed that my husband and his parents were moral because they always maintained the social normative. Now my husband and his parents argue that I am overreacting because nothing my husband has done violates the morals or rules of the social normative so they say I need to repent my lack of forgiveness. My sister in law and her husband on the other hand have been nothing but supportive(with exception to the teasing ) yet they openly reject the social normative. So the question is now who is really more moral? It now irks me to think of my father in laws reaction to finding out sister in law's husband hired a crew of undocumented laborers compared to him finding out about his son's online activities. When he found out about the laborer issue he blew his top. He was screaming at sister in law's husband about the illegally if what he was doing, about how it is unfair to American workers and how he is cheating the entire country. Then when I told him about his son's online activities, the money he spent on pormography, I wad the one who was considered unreasonable. So really what is more immoral? Is it really more immoral to pay a group of men willing to work to work, or is it more immoral to squander much needed family resources on something as corrosive and damaging as pormography (which by the way exploits the actresses as well)? So these questions l lead me to my next, why not start living more like my sister in law and her husband? Are they really that immoral ? If they are really more moral than those who tout the social order why not enjoy what they enjoy?

 

[Endeavourer]

Thank you for letting me know they are helping you. (hugs)

I want to be 100% sure that none of my feelings for wanting to bail have to do with a selfish desire to live a more comfortable life.

A desire to not support a husband who refuses to work is not selfish. Further, any desires you may have that are selfish are beside the point; the marriage was breached regardless of them.

It wouldn't matter if you had 100 other considerations - and to be fair, most people in your situation do because most wayward husbands have been terrible husbands during their time of being wayward. The consideration you are acting on is the breach of the marriage.

The Bible does not impose any additional conditions on divorcing for adultery - no conditions are placed on the victims frame of mind whatsoever. Adding to the Bible's requirements is heresy. When it came to mixing men's legalisms with the gospel of Scripture, Paul says that only a little leaven leavens a whole lump.

Regardless of the other thoughts that would naturally multiply at a time like this, the adultery condition still exists.

 

[worriedmommie]

It wouldn't matter if you had 100 other considerations - and to be fair, most people in your situation do because most wayward husbands have been terrible husbands during their time of being wayward. The consideration you are acting on is the breach of the marriage.

Well, this isn't completely fair to say in my circumstance. True, my husband had not been providing for the last 6 months but he had been a pretty good father to our son. And before he lost his job he was working many many hours. From what I can tell his membership on those forums stretches back at least 15 years. And I cannot in all honesty say that he had been a terrible husband that entire time. Don't get me wrong I am not wavering towards reconciliation, I just don't want to be dishonest.
The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards divorce. You know what, him and his parents say that his fetish isn't hurting any one is a load of crap. For one by being mired in it he isn't out working to support his family. And here is another thing, he had the audacity to suggest that maybe he can introduce me to his fantasy and we can role play. If I gave him that he wouldn't need to be online and buying "portfolios ". One more thing too, this is EXTREMELY embarrassing but according to some of the chats he had had with the other sickos on those forums, it is very likely the weight I put on in the past couple years is the result of him secretly "fattening me up". In some of his stories and blogs he gleefully talked about how he makes sure his wife always gets an extra donut and is slowly packing on the weight. He would tell strangers each time I outgrew my clothing. So in a way he may be responsible for me losing the rock hard bikini body I had when I was a surfer.

 

[Endeavourer]

And I cannot in all honesty say that he had been a terrible husband that entire time. Don't get me wrong I am not wavering towards reconciliation, I just don't want to be dishonest.

There is only one thing you need to examine honestly to make a Biblical decision: Is it adultery or not?

Any other considerations are beside the point, and you will certainly have many. The Bible doesn't mandate we divorce for adultery, it just gives us the option if the other considerations lead us to believe a divorce is the most desirable outcome.

The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards divorce. You know what, him and his parents say that his fetish isn't hurting any one is a load of crap.

Yes it is!!!

So "victimless" crimes are OK in their world if they're the one perpetrating them? Except this one isn't so victimless, as you can attest. If it was victimless, why are you so hurt? They just like to pretend to themselves it is to justify someone in their group.

Many legalistic people are enormous hypocrites.

One more thing too, this is EXTREMELY embarrassing but according to some of the chats he had had with the other sickos on those forums, it is very likely the weight I put on in the past couple years is the result of him secretly "fattening me up". In some of his stories and blogs he gleefully talked about how he makes sure his wife always gets an extra donut and is slowly packing on the weight. He would tell strangers each time I outgrew my clothing. So in a way he may be responsible for me losing the rock hard bikini body I had when I was a surfer.

He harmed you without your consent. This is the classic manifestation of an addiction - something that irresistibly comes before your spouse and family, even to their harm.

I hope your church community will give you overwhelming support if you finalize your decision to divorce.

 

[worriedmommie]

Many legalistic people are enormous hypocrites.

That I am starting to see. And with seeing that I am starting to feel really guilty over how I use to judge my sister in law and her husband. Sister in law's husband was never shy of calling us and his wife's father hypocrites. I guess I have always accepted the justification that there are worse things in the world than to be a hypocrite as at least a hypocrite has a set of standards to fall short of ( as opposed to my sister in law's husband's mantra of "yeah I am bad"). I have always been led to believe that at least hypocrites wish to change. But now I am realizing that hypocrites don't regret their short comings yet they would hold others to their's.

 

[Endeavourer]

But now I am realizing that hypocrites don't regret their short comings yet they would hold others to their's.

Amen!

Some of Christ's harshest rebukes were towards hypocrisy. Read Matthew 23.

I always keep v 4 close to my heart to make sure I do not do this to others.

Sadly, a lot of advice forums or comments to articles are full of this; a lot of churches are too.

I was held captive, to the detriment of my health, to a tangent of this for many years. After I could see that further adherence was going to destroy my health and take my life, I spent a full year researching Scripture until I could understand and fully, honestly believe that a heavy burden being imposed on me was not Scriptural after all.

There is a very loud contingency of people who believe divorce is never OK for any reason. There's another contingency that browbeats victims to forgive a perpetrator and reconcile before the perpetrator repents, changes and seeks their forgiveness. All of that bleating is soundly rebuked in Matt 23, and in many other places as well.

You won't figure out the upending of your moral perceptions in a day or even a week. You've experienced an incredible awakening that proved your prior beliefs and assumptions are on very shaky ground. Give yourself some time to process it so you don't come to a different wrong position hastily.

From my personal convictions and perceptions, your realizations are heading in the right direction. A great area to study to develop your thoughts further are books written about Pharisees and Phariseeism.

 

[Endeavourer]

But now I am realizing that hypocrites don't regret their short comings yet they would hold others to their's.

Hypocrites also have a lot of short comings that they are completely blind to.

That's why Jesus gave us the verse about the mote and the beam, challenging us to search our own hearts first.

However, sadly most hypocrites are not very successful with self searching because when they do, they self search like this:

From Luke 18:
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

 

[Papias]

I have an autistic 12 year old so a women's shelter is not a good place for him.

Yep, makes sense. It's good that you are OK where you are. But if anything changes, remember that you always have options if you look around.

I'm glad to see lots of good advice. As others have mentioned, it is completely Biblically justified in your case to get a divorce, and that many people will claim all kinds of different human ideas, say it isn't, etc. Any religion or scripture that would force someone to stay in a dangerous and unhealthy relationship isn't a real religion, it's a human construct.

Also - strange - but this just popped up in the news today. I don't remember any other cases like this in the past, but they found fetish erotic videos on this guy's computer of killing & mutilating women, and now it's pretty obvious that he's killed, mutilated and dismembered Kim Wall. Kim Wall Was Stabbed After Boarding Submarine, Danish Prosecutor Says

COPENHAGEN — A Danish inventor’s explanation of how the journalist Kim Wall died on his submarine was further cast into doubt after an autopsy revealed she had been stabbed more than 14 times and the police found video footage of slain women on a hard drive linked to the suspect.​

Stay Safe. You and your son are what's important - not what someone might think about this or that scripture interpretation.

Papias

 

[worriedmommie]

Yep, makes sense. It's good that you are OK where you are. But if anything changes, remember that you always have options if you look around.

I'm glad to see lots of good advice. As others have mentioned, it is completely Biblically justified in your case to get a divorce, and that many people will claim all kinds of different human ideas, say it isn't, etc. Any religion or scripture that would force someone to stay in a dangerous and unhealthy relationship isn't a real religion, it's a human construct.

Also - strange - but this just popped up in the news today. I don't remember any other cases like this in the past, but they found fetish erotic videos on this guy's computer of killing & mutilating women, and now it's pretty obvious that he's killed, mutilated and dismembered Kim Wall. Kim Wall Was Stabbed After Boarding Submarine, Danish Prosecutor Says

COPENHAGEN — A Danish inventor’s explanation of how the journalist Kim Wall died on his submarine was further cast into doubt after an autopsy revealed she had been stabbed more than 14 times and the police found video footage of slain women on a hard drive linked to the suspect.​

Stay Safe. You and your son are what's important - not what someone might think about this or that scripture interpretation.

Papias

Have you ever heard of the cannibal cop case?
'Cannibal Cop' still visits websites dedicated to eating humans
This guy has the same fetish. I think the forums my husband is on are the same that this guy was on. In a nut shell he was arrested for conspiracy to commit kidnapping and murder as a result of his activities in these forums then his conviction was subsequently overturned on appeal. This is part of the basis of my husband's argument that his fetish is legal and that the type of harsh judgement I am exhibiting is part of the reason our civil rights are being eroded away.

 

[worriedmommie]

Hypocrites also have a lot of short comings that they are completely blind to.

That's why Jesus gave us the verse about the mote and the beam, challenging us to search our own hearts first.

However, sadly most hypocrites are not very successful with self searching because when they do, they self search like this:

From Luke 18:
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

So this brings me to another moral quandary. Of course I agree that I am in no place to criticize the behavior of my sister in law and her husband. So yes I just ignore the fact that they constantly break the law and I still show them the gratitude for their love. However, would it be wrong of me to enjoy the fruits of their shady behavior. This is something I am struggling with. When I first moved in I insisted on paying my own way for my son and I. I did not want to be a burden on my hosts and I was still conflicted over if it was OK to partake of things they stole. It's not even possible to be blissfully unaware of what is going on. The husband would announce to us that because he either stole something or defrauded a store of something we were all going to get XYZ. Initially I would refuse, but then the goading and taunting begins. Also I am not going to lie, I am not made of iron, almost all of me wants to just say screw it and go with the flow, you know when in Rome. Is it terrible that I am losing my resolve to maintain my sense of right and wrong while living under my sister in law's roof?

 

[Endeavourer]

However, would it be wrong of me to enjoy the fruits of their shady behavior. This is something I am struggling with. When I first moved in I insisted on paying my own way for my son and I. I did not want to be a burden on my hosts and I was still conflicted over if it was OK to partake of things they stole. It's not even possible to be blissfully unaware of what is going on. The husband would announce to us that because he either stole something or defrauded a store of something we were all going to get XYZ. Initially I would refuse, but then the goading and taunting begins. Also I am not going to lie, I am not made of iron, almost all of me wants to just say screw it and go with the flow, you know when in Rome. Is it terrible that I am losing my resolve to maintain my sense of right and wrong while living under my sister in law's roof?

Right now you are dependent upon their provision and hospitality.

I would relax your conscience for this transition period of your life regarding this because it would be very hard for them to distinguish your acceptance of the fruits of their behaviors when they don't announce it (although you still know it to be so) vs when they do announce it.

For now they've agreed to filter their words in their own homes for the edification of your son - which is more than many people, including believers would do.

Any further disdain on your part would not be persuasive, would show ingratitude and would likely re-ignite/harden their impression that Christians are hypocrites.

My reference for this advice is 1 Cor 8, which addresses partaking in hospitality that we know has been previously tainted. In this case it was offered to idols; in your case it is tainted by dishonesty but the parallel is there:

1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

4 ¶ As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 ¶ Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

11 and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

 

[worriedmommie]

Right now you are dependent upon their provision and hospitality.

I would relax your conscience for this transition period of your life regarding this because it would be very hard for them to distinguish your acceptance of the fruits of their behaviors when they don't announce it (although you still know it to be so) vs when they do announce it.

For now they've agreed to filter their words in their own homes for the edification of your son - which is more than many people, including believers would do.

Any further disdain on your part would not be persuasive, would show ingratitude and would likely re-ignite/harden their impression that Christians are hypocrites.

My reference for this advice is 1 Cor 8, which addresses partaking in hospitality that we know has been previously tainted. In this case it was offered to idols; in your case it is tainted by dishonesty but the parallel is there:

1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

4 ¶ As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 ¶ Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

11 and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

So in this logic would it be hypocritical for me to accept the crew watching job? My sister in law's husband had said if I want to pick up some extra cash I can take a turn supervising one of his work crews. His wife does it on occasion so does his brother on occasion and on occasion one of his ex girlfriends. I am so sorely tempted to accept but I know it to be illegal. He says that it is very easy because the crews generally manage themselves and if there is a technical question to just call him. The only rub he says is that every now and then labor commission people do start asking questions and all I have to do in that case is lie to them and say the guys are independent contractors whom rent tools from us or something like that. I am really not bring disdainful I am just scared yet sorely tempted.
I am really not disdainful of them, I know I can't change them. The State of Texas vs. My sister in law's husband didn't change them so what hope do I have. Now I am just trying to quash that lingering guilt I have inside that whispers to me that I can't get too comfortable in their world. I know it sounds patronizing but they do live in a totally different world than I am use to.

 

[Endeavourer]

So in this logic would it be hypocritical for me to accept the crew watching job? My sister in law's husband had said if I want to pick up some extra cash I can take a turn supervising one of his work crews. His wife does it on occasion so does his brother on occasion and on occasion one of his ex girlfriends. I am so sorely tempted to accept but I know it to be illegal.

I don't have a quick answer for you on this one.

An option might be that you pick up another job to get the extra cash instead so does not feel you are abusing his hospitality by stopping short of doing everything you can do to get on your feet again.

On the one hand, you really need to stay clear of the law because if you were put in jail then your son would go back to his dad's custody. Your son is depending upon you. Perhaps that is your best explanation.

On the other hand..... I really don't have a quick answer but my instincts would be to not despise their hospitality in any way or leave a poor testimony of your profession.

As you know they are sensitive to hypocrisy. If you are surviving off the fruits of them doing it, it is not much of a step further if you do it. Yet it is a step.

Pray about it; your heavenly Father knows you are in a conundrum here, but in his providence you do have safety and shelter.

After you pray about it, perhaps your devotions will give you some indicator. If not, just make the best decision you can at the time.

Perhaps later a clearer action plan will come to you and then it will be a deepening of your understanding of your heavenly Father's will and nature.

 

[Endeavourer]

Now I am just trying to quash that lingering guilt I have inside that whispers to me that I can't get too comfortable in their world. I know it sounds patronizing but they do live in a totally different world than I am use to.

Their world clearly lacks some boundaries that you will want in your new normal, but your world clearly had some boundaries on wrong lines.

This upset to your world and the new realizations you've experienced will set you on a path to charter a new world that is neither their current world nor your old world. A world of following Christ with a better understanding of pride and hypocrisy than you had before.

 

[worriedmommie]

On the one hand, you really need to stay clear of the law because if you were put in jail then your son would go back to his dad's custody. Your son is depending upon you. Perhaps that is your best explanation.

This is exactly the reason I had given him when I declined before. Don't misunderstand, I am working while I am staying here. I still go to my job and pay for my own gas and my son's medical. I try to buy my own food but more often then not they portion out meals for us too when they eat. They do accept that I cannot get arrested due to my son. They also know that I can't play the same games they play. Both of them have been arrested multiple times. The song and dance is one of them will get picked up for something, he/she would spend a couple hours as guests of the state and then husband's best friend, the attorney would go get him. Charges are dropped at prelim and the process repeats in a couple months. Neither of them has been arrested since I have been in the home but it has happened do frequently that it is just part of the fabric of their lives.

 

[Endeavourer]

This is exactly the reason I had given him when I declined before.

Both of them have been arrested multiple times. .

I think it's reasonable to stick with that. You really cannot afford to have that complication at this time.

An arrest could be used against you vigorously in the divorce proceedings. The thought of that might help you resist all temptation to participate.

I did understand you were working & this was going to be a bonus of cash. If your benefactors feel you have time and should be going after bonus cash to get on your feet quicker, a second job would probably be better than participating in their scheme.

 

[Endeavourer]

Your husband will likely see your arrest (should there be one) as an opportunity to vigorously assert a custody battle so he can continue being supported by you with child support while he says home to nurse his addiction.

 

[Endeavourer]

You're doing great, worried mommie!

I'm SUPER impressed with your ability to do what you needed to do to protect and provide for your son, even though it was extremely uncomfortable to go to your sister in law, while keeping your job going, while reconfiguring almost everything you ever understood about everything even including your own marriage.

2 Corinthians 1 is a great encouragement for this type of time.

I went through a valley of fire that shook up my whole world and then afterwards, I understood 2 Corinthians 1 in a whole new light.

May God continue to preserve, protect and bless you during this really tough time!!

(hugs)

 

[worriedmommie]

I think it's reasonable to stick with that. You really cannot afford to have that complication at this time.

An arrest could be used against you vigorously in the divorce proceedings. The thought of that might help you resist all temptation to participate.

I did understand you were working & this was going to be a bonus of cash. If your benefactors feel you have time and should be going after bonus cash to get on your feet quicker, a second job would probably be better than participating in their scheme.

Yep, absolutely no desire to spend a night in the Harris County Hilton. And I know what you mean about the court system. Again I am not proud of it but in the past, my mother and father in law have attempted to use the courts to take my niece away from my sister in law. This happened a few years back when she and her husband literally did back to back stints in detention. The husband for a disorderly conduct and the wife for refusing to pay a ticket also for disorderly conduct. By this time I think they were both on their third or forth arrest. Their daughter was I think 9 or 10 at the time and our in laws at the behest of the church were really pushing for custody. I am ashamed to say that I was one of the people who submitted an affidavit attesting to them being unfit parents.

 

[Endeavourer]

in the past, my mother and father in law have attempted to use the courts to take my niece away from my sister in law.

Their daughter was I think 9 or 10 at the time and our in laws at the behest of the church were really pushing for custody. I am ashamed to say that I was one of the people who submitted an affidavit attesting to them being unfit parents.

At the behest of their church??? !!!!

Do you attend the same church? If so, be prepared with a plan of action if you face spiritual abuse from it. If you are comfortable answering this, what type of church is it?

I can understand even more why you are so completely blown away by your sister in law's hospitality. I agree with you that even Christians would have a hard time being so gracious although we know it pleases our Savior when we are.

They have really suffered some harsh judgements from the Christians in their family. Perhaps you'll be able to turn their impressions around with your newfound understandings.