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Streetvision

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Hey, i am not a christian, i dont know why but i am intrested in the bible, and every now and them i seem to be drawn to it for some unkown reason

But last night i was thinking, there is all this fighting between creation and evolution, but what if i said both were right?

if you read a bit of Genesis it said

Genesis 1:20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky."

if we dont take this to literaly, isnt the oldest form of living life that we know of came from the sea, so i dont think if there is a god he puts birds on this earth as they are now, but he laid the foundation for them to evolve into what they are now the same as the fish in the sea,

im agnostic, i cannot fully believe that there is a god, but i seem to like religion for some unknown reason, im 16 btw so i dont know, can u shed any light on this?
 

crossrunner

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You know...all this discussion and controversy about evolution/creation doesn't mean a hill of beans in the long run. Your eternal soul and your peace on this earth is what is important to God.
May I be so bold as to say that your interest is the Holy Spirit tugging on your heart. You have a need (or you wouldn't be asking about this ;) ). That need, the empitness inside you, can only be filled by God through Jesus Christ.
Imagine this: You are on one side of a very wide and deep crevice. God is on the other. The crevice that seperates you (and all of us for that matter) is our sinful nature (We all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God). Nothing we can do can help us to cross that crevice and get to God. Not any of our good works (the Bible says that our righteousness is as filthy rags), not our belief in creation vs evolution (or the other way around) not a "religion". When Jesus died on the cross, he bridged that crevice and gave us the way to God. It is through our belief in Him and our surrender to Him along with turning away from our sin and trusting in Him for our salvation that brings us to God.
My prayer is that you will take the time to talk to God. Taste and see that He is indeed good. He loves you very much and He wants you to walk with Him and have a relationship with Him.
If you have any questions...feel free to PM me.

God bless you dear.
 
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City_of_Aii

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The main debate over creation verses evolution is totally irrelevant. You can say both sides are right, but then you are saying both sides are wrong, as both cannot be right.

May I suggest you don't worry about where the human species came from, that is in the past. Try worrying about where you are going, in this life and the next.

Neither side can be proven as no human ever saw the creation of this world. Therefore people can claim that the other side is making things up and is based only on conjecture. However, as creation involves the belief in a God, which many people do not want to do, it is not taught in schools, however accurate, whilst evolution is taught as FACT. Evolution, scientifically speaking, is NOT a fact, nor can it be called a THEORY: evolution is a HYPOTHESIS. A hypothesis is a belief that one attempts to prove. If your proof supports your hypothesis, it becomes a theory, and if your theory is proven in all trials, in all situations, and is backed by solid evidence, it becomes a LAW or fact.

But, I will say that if you were to prefer the most scientifically backed THEORY, then it would have to be CREATION.

Why?

1. The hypothesis of evolution is dynamic: it is always changing, while the theory of creation is static, it does not compromise. People have to constantly change the hypothesis of evolution to make it sound plausible, but creation always has had the backing of the evidence.

2. The 'evidence' for evolution is misrepresented, and usually supports the other side. Most versions of 'neanderthal man', like 'Java Man' and the such are made from a handful of bones. From this you get a complete wax model in your museum stating their entire culture as proven fact. But some of the 150,000 year old 'humans' have turned out to be animal parts - even an elephants kneebone - or 50 year old remains. The 'fossil chart' you see in text books linking fossils together in different soil levels cannot be found anywhere in the world. In some places it is upside-down. They have not found a single 'transitional' skeleton that proves one species changed into another. They have just found similar species and drawn a line between them. They have even found million years old fossils swimming in the sea alive, yet they were no. 2 in a list of about 10. And so on and so on.

3. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics - please not this is a proven, scientific Law accepted by all scientist - goes against the ideal of evolution. Briefly, the Law states that everything will decay through time from order to chaos, order cannot come from chaos, except with the intervention of an outside entity or element. ie. God. Hence, we cannot 'evolve' to adapt to our environment, we are losing our abilities to adapt to other environments. But we needed a place to start from, creation.

4. Many evolutionist claim that creation is false because the entire human species came from one male and one female. Yet they would have us believe that the entire human race came from one human, which was derived from a previous single-sex animal. At least Adam and Eve had the ability to pro-create. But then again Genesis does not say that Adam and Eve were the first humans made, there is an undefined amount of men and women created before Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the first humans that were not classed as 'creation', but were made to have a relationship with God. Hence the scripture in 1 Corinthians 15 stating that Adam was the 'First Man' whilst Christ was the 'Second Man'.

5. Many evolutionist claim that creation is false because it claims that the whole world is created in six days. Well first let me say that the science that they say proves them right, says that there are many stars that are older than the Universe. They have measured the age of some stars to be over 14 billion years ago, but the same science says the universe is only 8 billion years ago. They had to add in an extra 4 billion years to the number when they released it in school text books to make it plausible. But the bible does not say in six 24 hour days. Any scientist would have researched and realised that the word 'day' comes from the hebrew 'YOM' meaning 'period of time' and is also translated as 'year', 'season', 'time', elsewhere. Therefore the bible states that creation occurred in six consecutive stages each of undefined length, which supports scientific findings.

6.Evolutionists claim that life formed originally in the sea as the conditions were right for a chance combination of chemicals. Well, they have yet to prove this in a laboratory. Every test they have done simulating what they believe were the conditions has destroyed any life, and hasn't created any. They were able to create a few proteins necessary for life, but were unable to include other enzymes or proteins which are destroyed by the environment that creates the other. Hence, scientifically speaking, life could not have formed by chance as the opportune environment for one part destroys the other half, preventing either half to produce a whole life form. And there is also the fact that they claim that whales come from cows. If the evolutionary trend was proving land life was the better option, why did the cow evolve from fish, only to jump back into the water again as a whale?

7. The only skeletons they have found with wings, has been with a fully formed wing, useable or not. The radical changes that were needed to create flight from a ground based animal would have exterminated the species via their theory of natural selection.

8. Natural selection has only been able to prove genetic evolution. I'll use the finch as an example. Every finch has the same genetical material, except where it has lost some. Each type of finch has different genes predominant, but they are all the same. Animals are unable to gain massive amounts of new genetical material as it is lost during reproduction. The mutations are mostly eliminated by the body's immune system or end up killing the animal, preventing the passing of the new makeup. And every attempt to reproduce my mating different species has produced a sterile offspring, ie mule, liger. Evolutionists claim we are decendant from apes as we have similar genetic make up. If that is the case we are also decendant from rats, fish and elephants as we share large amounts of genetic material with them. Some cases are a better match than the ape!

That is enough for now. Please not I am not claiming that creation is a fact, it is still a theory.

Humans have the desire to be something more, to pass the blame and glory to something else. Something to label the unknown to, something greater than them. For some people this is the government, for others it is enlightenment, for others again it is Gods. Most Gods are created to fulfill a specific purpose, to identify with a particular aspect of being human. Some aren't.

The Christian God is one of them. He exists beyond the scope of human religion. Unfortunately, many 'christian' churches put religion between them and God.

If you have a desire to find out more about God - good. Now I will offer you something most 'christians' will not. PROOF.

You can have a personal relationship with God. God can prove Himself to you. No other human presence is needed.

Just challenge God to prove himself to you. And believe that if God is true, He will answer you.

If you want to look at what other people say God has done for them:
First, throw out any religious material you have (or just put them aside), ignore what people try to tell you. Look it up for yourself, make the judgement yourself, act on your own desires.
If you have access to the Bible, read Acts and 1 Corinthians. These list the signs and wonders which God says is proof that He exists.

"God also bearing witness, both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit..." (Hebrews 2:2)

"These signs shall follow them that believe: in My name they shall cast out contrite spirits; they shall speak in tongues; they will take up serpents in their hands; and if they shall drink anything deadly it shall by no means hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and the sick shall recover." (Mark 16:17-18)

"And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people." (Acts 5:12)

"...the God that answereth by fire, let Him be God" (1 Kings 18:24)

If people do not have these signs and wonders and miracles, their God is dead.

Also look at these sites:
miracles-still-happen.org
revivalfellowship.org
revivalusa.org
youngies.net

Contact anyone from these sites, they will be able to help you out more.

I know this is a bit long, but it is just the beginning. I hope it helps some.

City_of_Aii
 
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heron

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The theory of Creation "does not compromise"...? The interpretation of it does fluctuate. The words are there, but the consideration of its implications and "between the lines" changes all the time.

Actually, Streetvision you've just done it. The creation story is a very short recorded account that was passed down in the verbal tradition several generations before the account we recognize was written.

I like your theory, and find many other Christians are delighted when they hear theories that tie science in with God's Word--archaeological evidence, mathematics, microbiology and physics--because in some ways they do confirm the Creation story, stretched out for many years or centuries or ages... and we realize that God was quite the Scientist.

Even the Big Bang theory relates in some ways to the concept that God spoke out, and things happened.

Here's another example of between-the-lines gaps: "Abraham fathered Isaac, Isaac fathered Jacob, JAcob fathered Judah and his brothers, Judah fathered Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar..." Matthew 1: 2-3


[font=Times New Roman, times, arial, verdana, georgia]Here is a translation of Genesis 1 based on Strong's literal text with Hebrew definitions. Several words choices are given, as some words used the complex implications. You will see "-self" used as we use "himself." Most Bibles will use the term "god," a synonym for "supreme being."

At first, formed Supreme being(s)-self
Sky over earth and star area (and) ground/land
Land existed desolate/wasteland/worthless (and) void,
Darkness/obscurity/misery/wickedness/destruction/sorrow
above the face/before the surging mass of water/main body of water.

Exhaled breath (of) supreme being
relaxed above face (of the) water/juice.
Say/said Supreme being, be lit.
Came to pass illumination

See/saw Supreme being-self, illumination and happiness caused good things

Distinguished/divided supreme being between light & happiness between
Darkness/misery/ignorance/sorrow/wickedness…
Called out by name Supreme being illumination & happiness
Hot hours/day
Darkness called out by name, a twist away of the light.
Came to pass dusk
Came to pass dawn
Day united/one/first.



[/font]
 
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Dark Siela

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The best thing I know is that God wants you to come to him. Heres something that is coming from my heart, something I think God wants me to tell you:

Your importent for someone else out there, someone you love, someone you hate, maybe even the whole world. God as something so, so, so, so great for you. Something so great and so wonderful that you can't even imagine. BUT God needs you to come to him first, in order for the wonderful gift, talent, misson etc,. to have the greatest efect. If I become a singer in a Christian Band and do it all the way until I die and God said I saved ONE person. I think it'd be worth it.

I haven't been a Christian for very long. I got baptised on March the 27'th this year. After I did get baptised though, I've been so blissfully happy and I feel I can do anything thats because in the Bible theres a verse wich says: "I can do all things through Christ wich strengenenth me." When I feel like I can't do anything I say that verse. And when I'm afraid I say: "For God has not given us a spirit of fear: but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." and I no longger become afraid, but instead I feel fearless, I feel like I can do anything, anywhere. And I feel like I can slap fear in the face.

I think, everyone has a misson so very importent, and that every person in the world was given that power by God. Like my mum, she makes me SO mad sometimes, everything she does seems like a waste to me. (But sometimes shes pretty smart and I can agree with her, you know mother daugther stuff.) But I thank her so much you want to know her purpose? She MADE me and my little sister go to church at first I hated it. But know I cloudn't love it more. If it wasn't for my mum I would stil be a horrible evil person who sins ALL the time, Christians are sinners too but they have God.

And my pastor is very importent too, I know his misson is very great. Once half of our church came up and re-deidated their lives to God. He also saved and baptised me, mt little sister, my mum, and my dad. And so many more, for a matter of fact, last Sunday he baptised someone.

I hope things clear up and you and God get things straightend out, if you need anything at all PM me, even if you want to find a church near you PM me and I'll ask my pastor for a good one. Just PM me for anything you want to.

Take care,
God Bless,
Dark Siela.
 
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BlackRain

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i'm glad you're interested in reading God's word!! that's just awesome! may i suggest you read the book of John. i know you're searching for something and i also know that God can fill that void you have inside. he did for me, that's for sure! have you thought about actually talking to him? i know it might sound weird, but there's no harm in gonig for it. He's listening...
 
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Cian

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Creationists love to point out the faults of evolution, but it does not make sense to compare Creationism to Evolution. The Theory of Evolution does not include in it anything about the origin of life or the universe. It merely tries to explain how species adapt and develop over time.

To the Creationists: Your theory has little to no proof, merely speculation. There is no proof that any God exists at all. The attempt by Creationists to explain life through science,(Intelligent Design), uses little science and again relies on speculation. There is simply no way to prove the existence of God.
 
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roseglass6370

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Hey,

I haven't read everything that's been posted so sorry if I repeat anything. There is probably a reason that you are being drawn towards The Bible, maybe (I know you might not believe that God exists, but hear me out anyway) it is God's way of bringing you towards Him. My advice is go with it. Read up as much as you can and with an open mind. If you are feeling compelled to go towards God go with those feelings. I can tell you that amazing things are going to happen in your life!! That may sound cheesy now, but it's true. Open your mind and heart to Christ and just go with your feelings.

In Christ,
~Brooke (if you have any questions or anything feel free to PM me, promise I won't force anything on you) ;)
 
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braka

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You know...all this discussion and controversy about evolution/creation doesn't mean a hill of beans in the long run. Your eternal soul and your peace on this earth is what is important to God.
May I be so bold as to say that your interest is the Holy Spirit tugging on your heart. You have a need (or you wouldn't be asking about this ;) ). That need, the empitness inside you, can only be filled by God through Jesus Christ.

Well said..

I know it is easy for me to get caught in intellectual circuits when what I thirst for is spiritual nourishment.

When I read the Bible, I pray and ask God to guide my reading and replace my will with his. If I find my mind wandering I pray again, and sometimes my mind continues to wander, other times I focus back on the reading.

Ty
 
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wandering_paladin

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*sigh* so someone soul searching and trying to find God and study the Bible ends up turning into a push for creationism... Absolutely wonderful...

Streetvision, keep reading, keep praying, and do not, whatsoever, allow one of the most endless, fruitless arguments known to mankind (creation vs. evolution) distort or prevent you from discovering the wonder and peace that is God. And if others try to push either side on you, whether it be creation or evolution, see that as a distraction towards understanding, learn on your own, decide for yourself, and don't let the opinions of others darken your path.
 
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Dark Siela

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Well said all of you. I just told my best friend in the WHOLE wide world about Jesus, so now I'm waiting for her to reply. I hope that you find all the ansers your looking for SreetVison. And that your inrest in the Bible leads you more and more to chirst.
 
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Sojourner<><

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heron said:
[font=Times New Roman, times, arial, verdana, georgia]At first, formed Supreme being(s)-self Sky over earth and star area (and) ground/land
Land existed desolate/wasteland/worthless (and) void,
Darkness/obscurity/misery/wickedness/destruction/sorrow
above the face/before the surging mass of water/main body of water.

Exhaled breath (of) supreme being
relaxed above face (of the) water/juice.
Say/said Supreme being, be lit.
Came to pass illumination

See/saw Supreme being-self, illumination and happiness caused good things

Distinguished/divided supreme being between light & happiness between
Darkness/misery/ignorance/sorrow/wickedness…
Called out by name Supreme being illumination & happiness
Hot hours/day
Darkness called out by name, a twist away of the light.
Came to pass dusk
Came to pass dawn
Day united/one/first.

[/font]

Isn't this a word for word translation? Is context taken into consideration? Doesn't context play a major part in the meaning of the original Hebrew?
 
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forgivenmuch

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great advice about coming to God, everyone is born into a sinful nature, its our beliefs and what we do with that is what matters. if you ever turn to God, you will know that he is real, how can people say hes not real if they never really tried?
let me tell you what God has done for me, he changed my life. i no longer see bad in people, but Good, he gives you such a love for people that you want to do what you can to help people. i remember when i got saved, i no longer had the desire to do bad, although i still sinned , i knew i was different. God is a good God, he gave his only son jesus to die for our sins, jesus is full of grace and love. there will never be a greater God than the one that saved my soul, jesus is my savior. we all must be born again, meaning to repent of our sinful nature and be born into a family of God. jesus will never leave you he will comfort you when things go bad in your life. we are not promised a great life here on this earth, but when we go thru things he will be there to help us. we always have someone to talk to when there is no one around. he listens to our prayers. i could not imagine my life without him. believe in him and you will see he is real. all it takes is a little faith. i hope and pray you beleive on God and jesus. they are real and they want to come in your life.
 
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