Help me understand these prayers

[ZiSunka]

Hi Folks! I really appreciate you being willing to help people understand your faith. I've been sorting out the things in my childhood home and I've found a bunch of Catholic prayer booklets with prayers I don't really understand. From a non-catholic standpoint, they seem blasphemous, but I realize that although Catholics and non-catholics share a common vocabulary, the words don't have the same meanings, so before I get all bothered by what I have read, I thought I'd come here and have you explain these prayers to me.

Thanks!

Oh Jesus living in Mary, come and live in your servants, in the spirit of your holiness, in the fullness of your might, in the truth of your virtue, in the perfection of your ways, in the communion of your mysteries, in your spirit for the glory of your Father, amen.

What does "Jesus living in Mary" mean? I don't have any idea what is being said in this phrase.

Oh Mary, Mother of the Holy Spirit, I offer my reverence to Thee. Thou shalt every be the object of my veneration, love and condifence. I will proclaim Thy greatness without ceasing. I will neglect no means of obtaining for thee Thee the honor and the homage which are due to Thee. Vouchsafe O Mary, to open to me Thy Heart and to receive me therein, in union with all They dear and faithful children. Obtain for me grace. Succor me in all dangers. Console me in all afflications. Bring me into conformity with Thee and I will make it my duty to imitate Thy virtues, especially Thy purity and love. Amen.

What does it mean "Mother of the Holy Spirit"?

Last one:

Higher in honor than the cherubim, more glorious beyond compare to than the seraphim, without harm to your virginity you gave birth to God. Truly you are God's Mother and we praise you?

What does it mean that Mary is above the angels?

 

[ZiSunka]

It's not a trick, I'm genuinely interested in understanding the Catholic point of view on these, out of a desire to better understand my mom, who was catholic but passed away 20 years ago this friday.

 

[Adammi]

1. What does "Jesus living in Mary" mean? I don't have any idea what is being said in this phrase.
Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary, spiritually she is Christ's ark of the convenant. In the Old Testament the ark of the convenant contained the word written on stone. In the New Testament Mary contains the living word

2. What does it mean "Mother of the Holy Spirit"?
The Holy Spirit procedes both from the father and the son, this is called the filoque. Mary as mother of Christ is mother of his spirit.

3. What does it mean that Mary is above the angels?
This one is pretty much self explanitory Mary is above all of the angels. She is the queen of heaven.

Marry Christmass
~Adam

 

[ZiSunka]

This one is pretty much self explanitory Mary is above all of the angels. She is the queen of heaven.

I still don't understand this. What does it mean to be queen of heaven?

 

[PeterPaul]

Rev 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

That's what it means.

 

[Paul S]

Oh Jesus living in Mary, come and live in your servants, in the spirit of your holiness, in the fullness of your might, in the truth of your virtue, in the perfection of your ways, in the communion of your mysteries, in your spirit for the glory of your Father, amen.

What does "Jesus living in Mary" mean? I don't have any idea what is being said in this phrase.

In the 17th and 18th centuries in France, there was a school of thought known as the Berullians, which focused on, of all the mysteries of Christ's life, the Incarnation, so they dedicated their prayers to "Jesus living in Mary", as he did during the nine months between Gabriel's annunciation to Mary and Christmas. This prayer looks to be in that style. It's asking that just as Jesus physically dwelt in Mary, so too may he now spiritually dwell within us.

Oh Mary, Mother of the Holy Spirit, I offer my reverence to Thee. Thou shalt every be the object of my veneration, love and condifence. I will proclaim Thy greatness without ceasing. I will neglect no means of obtaining for thee Thee the honor and the homage which are due to Thee. Vouchsafe O Mary, to open to me Thy Heart and to receive me therein, in union with all They dear and faithful children. Obtain for me grace. Succor me in all dangers. Console me in all afflications. Bring me into conformity with Thee and I will make it my duty to imitate Thy virtues, especially Thy purity and love. Amen.

What does it mean "Mother of the Holy Spirit"?

I'm not quite sure what this one means. Catholics, of course, believe that Mary is the mother of the Son, since from her was created His human body, but I've never seen her referred to as Mother of the Holy Ghost. I suppose you could think of it as since the Holy Ghost was sent into the world through the Son, He was, in a way, sent through Mary, since without Mary there would be no Jesus.

Last one:

Higher in honor than the cherubim, more glorious beyond compare to than the seraphim, without harm to your virginity you gave birth to God. Truly you are God's Mother and we praise you?

What does it mean that Mary is above the angels?

Mary is the highest of all creation, above the plants, and animals, and all other men, and even above the angels. She was the one specially chosen by God to be the mother of His Son, and she was the one preserved from sin throughout her life, and she was the one taken into heaven body and soul at the end of her earthly life. Although the angels are superior to men in many ways, in dignity and rank, Mary is above even the archangels.

 

[Jamme]

We see evidence of Mary's role as the ark of the new covenant and Queen of Heaven in Rev. 11: 19, where we read: "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm."

The next verse -- which is separated by a chapter notation which, as you well know, wasn't added until some 800 or 1,000 years later -- reads, "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun."

Now, taken together, in its uninterrupted form -- as it was originally written by John -- this passage reads:


"Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child..."



The woman seen in the sky is a 'sign' that follows the revelation of the ark in the temple. The association is unmistakable.

 

[Jamme]

Doh! PP got there before me

 

[Paul S]

I still don't understand this. What does it mean to be queen of heaven?

We normally think of the queen as the wife of the king. In the Old Testament, in the time of David, however, the queen was the mother of the king. Since the king of heaven is Christ, and his mother is Mary, she is queen.

Read chapter 2 of I Kings, and look at how David treats his mother. He refuses her nothing and she intercedes for his subjects, just as Mary does in heaven.

 

[ZiSunka]

Rev 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

That's what it means.

You consider that woman to be Mary? I thought that woman was Israel, the bride of Christ. How is that woman understood to be Mary? What makes Mary that woman?

 

[Jamme]

In Revelation 12, we see a tableaux with a female figure bearing a child. We know the child is the Messiah by the reference, "destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod" -- which recalls the Messianic prophecy in Psalm 2:7 -

"The Lord said to me, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod; you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.'"

Now, if the child in Revelation 12 is Jesus, the woman from whom he issues can only be Mary. Here's why:

We see a vision of her in the heavens, clothed in the sun, wearing a crown, a symbol of royalty: "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days...

"When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commands and bear witness to Jesus."



Some claim that the woman here represents the Church. This is not so. Remember that the Church is the Body of Christ, Jesus Christ in the world. Jesus is the Head of the Church, and through Baptism, we are baptised into Christ and die and rise with Him, and become members of His body. The imagery from the scripture is clear - the male child is the Messiah, the Savior, Jesus. It is only logical to keep the family of symbols the same and acknowledge that the woman is the Mother or our Lord, the virgin Mary. Notice how the scripture refers to the 'rest of her offspring' as those who bear witness to Jesus and keep the commandments of God. Recall the instructions of Jesus to 'keep the commandments' as being the way to follow Him? The 'offspring' can only be the Church. This follows the teaching of St. Paul who called us 'brothers of the Lord'. We are His brother and we are also members of His Body. The scripture says that Jesus is the new Adam, the first born of the new creation. The scripture also says that we are also the offspring of the woman, Mary, who is the new Eve, the mother of all the new creation. This is why Catholics refer to Mary as 'the Mother of the Church' and 'Our Mother' because she was the mother of Jesus, who is the Church, the Body of Christ, and since we are brothers of Jesus and offspring of the woman, the title 'Mother' is rightly applied to Mary in regards to us as well, since we are members of the Body of Christ. This is why the woman in the image of scripture must be Mary and cannot be the Church - If the woman represents the Church, then we're left with the obvious anomaly of the Church being the offspring of the Church . . .

This means that, granted the woman is Mary, the Apostle and evangelist John is depicting her in a glorious and compelling new light -- as the Queen of Heaven

 

[ZiSunka]

We normally think of the queen as the wife of the king. In the Old Testament, in the time of David, however, the queen was the mother of the king. Since the king of heaven is Christ, and his mother is Mary, she is queen.

Read chapter 2 of I Kings, and look at how David treats his mother. He refuses her nothing and she intercedes for his subjects, just as Mary does in heaven.

Oh! I see! She's queen because her Son is King. The only references to the word "queen" that I can find in the OT refer to a king's wife or a woman who is ruler of her country. I see "queen mother" a lot, but not just "queen" in reference to the king's mother. In fact, the only references I can find to "queen of heaven" refer to a pagan goddess.

Can you help me find where it calls the king's mother "queen"? I really appreciate your help!

 

[Jamme]

Oh! I see! She's queen because her Son is King. The only references to the word "queen" that I can find in the OT refer to a king's wife or a woman who is ruler of her country. I see "queen mother" a lot, but not just "queen" in reference to the king's mother. In fact, the only references I can find to "queen of heaven" refer to a pagan goddess.

Can you help me find where it calls the king's mother "queen"? I really appreciate your help!

Sure

Mary’s Queenship is first based on her maternal relationship with Jesus. Here the ancient Hebraic notion of the Queen Mother applies to Mary as Mother of the Messianic King, Jesus Christ. In ancient Israel, the most important woman in the monarchy was generally the queen mother, not the queen. In the southern kingdom of Judah, the kings’ wives were apparently never “queens.” It was the queen mother (Hebrew, gebira or “Great Lady”), the king’s mother, who was honored and who wielded authority as a counselor to the king.

 

[ZiSunka]

Some claim that the woman here represents the Church. This is not so. Remember that the Church is the Body of Christ

But isn't the church also called the Bride of Christ? Anyway, I think you are right that this is not the church, because a woman can't give birth to her husband, right? But I don't see how this is Mary. Don't the 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel? If not, what do they represent to Catholics?

Besides, at the end of the chapter it talks about the woman having other offspring, and I thought Mary had no other children. It would seem that you are right and it is those who keep Christ's commandments, but when was Mary almost swallowed up by a dragon or saved from a flood by the earth opening its mouth The symbolism seems to be clearly about Israel in the past and future times to me, but I find your interpretation interesting.

 

[ZiSunka]

Sure

Mary’s Queenship is first based on her maternal relationship with Jesus. Here the ancient Hebraic notion of the Queen Mother applies to Mary as Mother of the Messianic King, Jesus Christ. In ancient Israel, the most important woman in the monarchy was generally the queen mother, not the queen. In the southern kingdom of Judah, the kings’ wives were apparently never “queens.” It was the queen mother (Hebrew, gebira or “Great Lady&#8221, the king’s mother, who was honored and who wielded authority as a counselor to the king.

I see. I don't know where that is referenced or alluded to in the Bible. Can you show me? Also, wouldn't Mary more properly be called the Queen Mother of Heaven?

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

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[Michelina]

You consider that woman to be Mary? I thought that woman was Israel, the bride of Christ. How is that woman understood to be Mary? What makes Mary that woman?

The Woman is a symbol of many things, including Israel and the Church and Mary, who incarnates Israel and is the Mother of the Church, its First Member, and its Archetype.

In the de Montfort prayer "O Jesus living in Mary" you find an understanding of Mary's role in the economy of salvation. You should read some of his writings if you want to understand this. de Montfort had a great influence on Pope John Paul. Let us know what you think of this recapitulation of Catholic Mariology:

http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0224/_INDEX.HTM

I have never heard of Our Blessed Mother Mary being called Mother of the Holy Spirit.

She is Daughter of God the Father
..........Mother of God the Son
..........Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

If you can look at that prayer which calls her Mother of the Holy Spirit and tell us the publisher of the prayer, we would appreciate it.

 

[Paul S]

But isn't the church also called the Bride of Christ? Anyway, I think you are right that this is not the church, because a woman can't give birth to her husband, right? But I don't see how this is Mary. Don't the 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel? If not, what do they represent to Catholics?

The stars also represent the twelve apostles as well as the twelve tribes. The stars are at her feet, showing that the woman rules over them.

Besides, at the end of the chapter it talks about the woman having other offspring, and I thought Mary had no other children. It would seem that you are right and it is those who keep Christ's commandments, but when was Mary almost swallowed up by a dragon or saved from a flood by the earth opening its mouth The symbolism seems to be clearly about Israel in the past and future times to me, but I find your interpretation interesting.

Mary does have other children - us. Because, through baptism, we become brothers of Christ, we therefore become sons of Mary.

The Apocalypse is one of the books in the Bible where things can have multiple meanings. The woman represents Mary, but it can also represent other things, too, just as the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament was a real object, but also represents Mary.

 

[Michelina]

*

 

[Michelina]

*http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10807448#post10807448