Help me understand myself

[Audiomechanic]

I'm not in a good place right now.

Back story: I hold a double standard that I wish weren't there, but I haven't seemed to come to a place where I understand it or can do anything about it. My double standard has to do with insecurity and jealousy, but I don't know why I can't over come it. Here it is: I hate tattoos on a woman I am with (not everyone woman, just one whom I am interested in or am with). When I say "hate tattoos," I don't mean dislike. I mean hate in the strongest sense of the word. They bring about jealous feelings in me that I can't seem to trace to a source.

My wife had a tattoo (still does obviously) when we met. I had some trouble with it, but I eventually got to the point where I accepted it, especially seeing as she didn't flaunt it to everyone and cause people to "OOO" and "Ahh" over how "cool" it is. She just has it and that's that.

My wife has been over coming a lot of junk from her terrible upbringing and family. And she really has overcome a lot. Her family is messed up and that did a lot of damage to her. Recently, in the past couple of months, she asked me if she could get another tattoo memorializing all that she's overcome and what not. I avoided the topic. I didn't want to go there or even think about it.

My wife went to go see her sister over labor day weekend, whom she has not had a relationship with in many years because of her mother, and came home with a new tattoo (she and her sister got tattoos together). She got it without telling me or asking me (except for general asking if she could get one). She got home Tuesday the 3rd. She didn't tell me until yesterday about the tattoo and kept it covered up (it's on her ankle) so I didn't know about it. I saw it this morning and it cut me. Deep. It sent me to the same dark place that one of my ex-girlfriends did when she revealed she had slept with many many guys before me. I'm hurting bad right now, and I know that the hurt is coming from within me, not from my wife. But I don't know how to stop it or get over it. And I'm having a lot of trouble tracing it to its source in my life.

Now, I don't want to look at my wife, touch her, be with her. This has sucked all her attractiveness away.

Help me understand myself.

 

[mkgal1]

Are you sure it's about the tattoo (specifically)? ISTM that, personally, I would feel a sense of betrayal that your wife's sister was in on all the plans, and you were left out (with this kept from you for several days). Also......I think that the division (she wants tattoos---you HATE tattoos) creates a divide between the two of you, and the SIL sort of filled in (in your place). Do you know what I mean? Betrayal cuts deep.....it breaks trust (even over things like tattoos).

That's how I see it.

 

[Hetta]

What MKGal said is what I was also thinking. Her getting the tattoo immediately linked in your mind with a previous gf doing some very hurtful and demeaning things, and I wondered if it was that your wife broke your trust by doing something that she knows you don't want her to do, rather than the actual tattoo itself.

Do you hate tattoos because they are not linked to you? You said it was about jealousy, so I am wondering that too.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I'm not in a good place right now.

Back story: I hold a double standard that I wish weren't there, but I haven't seemed to come to a place where I understand it or can do anything about it. My double standard has to do with insecurity and jealousy, but I don't know why I can't over come it. Here it is: I hate tattoos on a woman I am with (not everyone woman, just one whom I am interested in or am with). When I say "hate tattoos," I don't mean dislike. I mean hate in the strongest sense of the word. They bring about jealous feelings in me that I can't seem to trace to a source.

My wife had a tattoo (still does obviously) when we met. I had some trouble with it, but I eventually got to the point where I accepted it, especially seeing as she didn't flaunt it to everyone and cause people to "OOO" and "Ahh" over how "cool" it is. She just has it and that's that.

My wife has been over coming a lot of junk from her terrible upbringing and family. And she really has overcome a lot. Her family is messed up and that did a lot of damage to her. Recently, in the past couple of months, she asked me if she could get another tattoo memorializing all that she's overcome and what not. I avoided the topic. I didn't want to go there or even think about it.

My wife went to go see her sister over labor day weekend, whom she has not had a relationship with in many years because of her mother, and came home with a new tattoo (she and her sister got tattoos together). She got it without telling me or asking me (except for general asking if she could get one). She got home Tuesday the 3rd. She didn't tell me until yesterday about the tattoo and kept it covered up (it's on her ankle) so I didn't know about it. I saw it this morning and it cut me. Deep. It sent me to the same dark place that one of my ex-girlfriends did when she revealed she had slept with many many guys before me. I'm hurting bad right now, and I know that the hurt is coming from within me, not from my wife. But I don't know how to stop it or get over it. And I'm having a lot of trouble tracing it to its source in my life.

Now, I don't want to look at my wife, touch her, be with her. This has sucked all her attractiveness away.

Help me understand myself.

For a feeling that strong over something of that nature, I'd say seek a professional counselor. I know very little about psychology, but I'd be willing to bet it's not the tats that bother you...but something else underlying.

For the record, I'm not a fan of tats. There was a very brief time in my life where I nearly got one...and that time has passed. I can appreciate a nice/artistic one, but generally speaking I don't see the point in them. Seems like an ego-driven thing.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I didn't read the responses yet but the first thing that popper into my head when you mentioned your ex-gf betrayal is that you don't like being lied to, betrayed because it reminds you of her.

I don't care for tattoos either but theres a big difference between lying about a tattoo and lying about sleeping with many men. Granted it doesn't change the fact your wife chose to not tell you or even ask for your feelings on it. Maybe you should talk to your pastor or something about this and how to separate the betrayal feeling you have. And talk to your wife about being honest with you. One small lie can start you down a path of more little lies that end up becoming big lies.

I know I personally before getting married had many women lie to me. So eventually if I even heard the tiniest of lies I lost total trust in them. I really had to learn that the simplest of lies like "I forgot it was your birthday!" is not the end of the world. Then I had to simply realize something are not done on purpose. Luckily with my wife we choose to never lie to each other, aside from things like surprise parties of course.

If you don't mind me asking would you have let her get one even if she did ask? If she felt you would have said no then maybe its why she did it (which again doesn't mean she did the right thing). And was your wife drinking at all before having it done? Maybe she did it in a state where she wasn't thinking clearly. Which would worry me personally.

I'll be praying for you both. For now talk it out and explain to her your past and where this feeling comes from you have. Just try not to treat what she did like you may have felt about being lied to about men slept with since they are pretty different things.

 

[McScribe]

I'm not in a good place right now.

Back story: I hold a double standard that I wish weren't there, but I haven't seemed to come to a place where I understand it or can do anything about it. My double standard has to do with insecurity and jealousy, but I don't know why I can't over come it. Here it is: I hate tattoos on a woman I am with (not everyone woman, just one whom I am interested in or am with). When I say "hate tattoos," I don't mean dislike. I mean hate in the strongest sense of the word. They bring about jealous feelings in me that I can't seem to trace to a source.

My wife had a tattoo (still does obviously) when we met. I had some trouble with it, but I eventually got to the point where I accepted it, especially seeing as she didn't flaunt it to everyone and cause people to "OOO" and "Ahh" over how "cool" it is. She just has it and that's that.

By the way, I know what it's like to feel the kind of painful wringing confusion you're going through. You can PM me if you need to.
My wife has been over coming a lot of junk from her terrible upbringing and family. And she really has overcome a lot. Her family is messed up and that did a lot of damage to her. Recently, in the past couple of months, she asked me if she could get another tattoo memorializing all that she's overcome and what not. I avoided the topic. I didn't want to go there or even think about it.

My wife went to go see her sister over labor day weekend, whom she has not had a relationship with in many years because of her mother, and came home with a new tattoo (she and her sister got tattoos together). She got it without telling me or asking me (except for general asking if she could get one). She got home Tuesday the 3rd. She didn't tell me until yesterday about the tattoo and kept it covered up (it's on her ankle) so I didn't know about it. I saw it this morning and it cut me. Deep. It sent me to the same dark place that one of my ex-girlfriends did when she revealed she had slept with many many guys before me. I'm hurting bad right now, and I know that the hurt is coming from within me, not from my wife. But I don't know how to stop it or get over it. And I'm having a lot of trouble tracing it to its source in my life.

Now, I don't want to look at my wife, touch her, be with her. This has sucked all her attractiveness away.

Help me understand myself.

Could it be the grey area of intimacy about tattoos and piercings? Are you afraid of being betrayed?

By the way I know what it's like, what you're going through. Pm me if you'd like to.

 

[ValleyGal]

So...I have a tattoo. It's a tiny butterfly on my wrist that can easily be hidden by a watch. Even though it's small, the artist told me to protect it from water and moisture for about a week. I'm sure it's longer for bigger ones. I wonder if it was not a matter of hiding it but maybe just not showing it until it was healed. Maybe she was hoping you would not think it was that bad...

I'm not making excuses. If I knew my husband did not like tattoos, I would not go and get one.

So...I'm wondering, iirc you had mentioned before that you are familiar with the 12-step programs. Have you thought about going through the process with this to address the pain under the jealousy and betrayal involved in this? I think it's important to find the root of the pain, and then work those things out... work the program in this.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Thanks for the replies all.

A couple months ago, she did ask me if she could get one, and I guess I understand why. Her mother turned her and her sister against each other and forbade her from communicating with her sister. Same story with her aunt. She only recently has reached out to her sister and this trip over labor day and this trip was very special for her. She and her sister got tattoos to memorialize the new bond they now have and it symbolizes what she made it through growing up. So I understand why she would want to get it. But I hate it nonetheless.

That's why I posted about helping me figure out myself. I do feel betrayed in that she hid it from me and didn't ask, but I gotta find how to deal with this. It's permanent, I'm not leaving her over it.

As of now, she doesn't believe what she's done is betrayal.

 

[Audiomechanic]

So...I have a tattoo. It's a tiny butterfly on my wrist that can easily be hidden by a watch. Even though it's small, the artist told me to protect it from water and moisture for about a week. I'm sure it's longer for bigger ones. I wonder if it was not a matter of hiding it but maybe just not showing it until it was healed. Maybe she was hoping you would not think it was that bad...

I'm not making excuses. If I knew my husband did not like tattoos, I would not go and get one.

So...I'm wondering, iirc you had mentioned before that you are familiar with the 12-step programs. Have you thought about going through the process with this to address the pain under the jealousy and betrayal involved in this? I think it's important to find the root of the pain, and then work those things out... work the program in this.

Thank you, VG. I'm going to talk with my sponsor on this.

 

[seeingeyes]

What do you feel jealous of?

 

[Audiomechanic]

What do you feel jealous of?

That's just it, I'm not sure. That's what I'm trying to trace or find out. If I can figure that out, maybe I can work towards resolving this. I just know right now that this tattoo thing (and similar experiences in the past) stir about feelings of being left out, left behind, unworthy, not good enough, not living up to..., small. And a thought occurred to me a few minutes ago: one of the reasons I hate tattoos so much is because they are a perminent visual reminder of the above feelings that never goes away (as long as I am with the tattoo possessor).

 

[CounselorForChrist]

As of now, she doesn't believe what she's done is betrayal.

I'd just tell her your simply saying you are upset that she lied about it furthermore was hiding the tattoo from you. Perhaps if she would have been upfront about getting it (or even asking again) you wouldn't have felt so hurt. Especially if you have a joint bank account. Its not like she bought some groceries or a new pillow case, it was a cosmetic thing.

VG said it best though. The past is obviously playing a role in this and needs to be sorted out. After my first real date (that became a fiance) told me she was basically a nympho online and had slept with tons of men it really made me feel betrayed and I started to have trust issue with woman. So with the next woman I noticed (looking back) I was a bit more paranoid about being betrayed. I would sometimes say to myself "I know she will probably cheat on me!". My paranoia about betrayal only became worse when that woman admitted some things to me too.

SO on and so forth. Eventually I realized being betrayed many times had made me untrusting and I kept bringing that luggage with me into new relationships and it needed to stop. Its not easy to get over. But it can be done. Also as VG said maybe she didn't tell you at first for a reason. Sometimes we jump to assumptions quickly.

 

[illudium_phosdex]

I don't know if this will help at all but I am currently in therapy and when I've gotten stuck and couldn't figure out why I felt a certain way about an issue, my therapist told me to get out a piece of paper and write my feelings down with the wrong hand. Apparently what this exercise does is open up the other side of your brain where things get locked away and aren't quite as accessable. It's actually helped me figure out a couple of things when I couldn't figure out why something bothered me.

 

[WolfGate]

Audio - I got to ask, because I got caught on one thing you said. You said when she asked before, you avoided it. I assume even with that you are certain she knows your opinion of tattoos? Is there any chance because you've been avoiding the subject that she thought you didn't care that deeply - that perhaps it is just a preference but not super important?

 

[seeingeyes]

That's just it, I'm not sure. That's what I'm trying to trace or find out. If I can figure that out, maybe I can work towards resolving this. I just know right now that this tattoo thing (and similar experiences in the past) stir about feelings of being left out, left behind, unworthy, not good enough, not living up to..., small. And a thought occurred to me a few minutes ago: one of the reasons I hate tattoos so much is because they are a perminent visual reminder of the above feelings that never goes away (as long as I am with the tattoo possessor).

Why's everything gotta be all about you? (I'm not being snarky here at all.)

I mean, she is having some fairly life changing events going on, but all you can think of is what color her ankle is.

Now, to be clear, I do consider a wife's tattoos her husband's business, and vice versa, so you guys might need to have a talk about that and get on the same page for future reference. But what's done is done, and now you need to find a way to rejoice with your wife whose sister was lost and is now found.

Don't be stingy, bro.

Have you been able to convey to her what you've told us here (calmly)? She knows you better than anyone, and might be able to give you some insight about your habits of mind, here.

I think it's excellent that you are able to look at your own thought process and say, "hey, something doesn't add up here".

Hang in there, brother. (I'll be praying for ya!)

God bless

 

[Niffer]

She obviously knows you HATE tattoos. I don't quite understand your reasoning either, or how it related to a previous cheating partner..
So, yeah - I would be upset if my spouse showed up with a tattoo if he knew I hated it.

That being said, do you hate tattoo's because you're projecting an emotion tied to them ON your wife, OR is it just the "I hate tattoo's, why'd you get one?"

If you're projecting, you need to get over it.
(from what I understand) She didn't cheat on you, or was unfaithful to you, you knew about her 1st tattoo before you married her, and yet still dated/married her anyway.
She wanted to discuss getting another tattoo with you, which you avoided, and now that she went ahead and did it, you feel as deeply hurt as when you were cheated on.

That 'aint right.

She got a tattoo, yeah you hate it, but you can obviously deal with them; I mean, she already has one and you still love her, right?
It wasn't cool that she went ahead and did it, knowing that you hate them, but then again, how much does her tattoo actually affect you?
It's not like she opted to get a tubal done, or breast augmentation.

It's a tattoo.
If you can't handle it because your projecting, then it's really your issue, and not hers.

I hope it works out for you man.

~ Niffer

 

[ValleyGal]

Niffer, with all due respect, I think he knows that, which is likely why the title of the thread is "help me understand myself." I'm sure he does not want to project his feelings onto his wife, and I give him kudos for being aware of this and trying to take ownership of how he feels. Sometimes people just need a little help to gain a greater understanding... this reminds me of how we can oversimplify things, too...

Bob Newhart-Stop It - YouTube

 

[mkgal1]

I just came across this, Audio, and thought it may be of some value to you:

"Without the resistance of air, an eagle cannot soar. Without the resistance of water, a ship can't float. Without the resistance of gravity, you & I cannot even walk. Without opposition or resistance there is no potential for progress."

I'm praying that this situation turns into progress.......old hurts fully healed.....and a new (better) relationship with your wife. I pray that in the future, when you see this new tattoo, it has good memories attached to it (even if they are bittersweet....due to this struggle right now).

 

[ChristianGolfer]

Is it possible that it's a control thing? Like, her getting the tattoo symbolizes your lack of control over her? Could that be where the jealousy is coming from? Could it be fear that since you can't control her, she could cheat?

I'm just throwing out things that come to mind. But it sounds a bit like it's fear-based which is leading to lack of trust.

I think you have to realize, keep telling yourself, that your wife is her own person and you either trust her or you don't.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Update: My hurt from this tattoo thing and my reaction to it touched on an emotional wound that my wife has left over from her abusive parents. She became extremely hurt and left the house Sunday. She stayed at a friend's house that night (I do not know which friend). She made it clear to me in an email that she would be spending the next few nights at a hotel.

My wife and I have been seeing the same therapist (not together, separately) for a couple years now (she's seen her a lot longer than I have) and we had a pretty good session last night. Now, this therapist is not a marriage counselor, but and individual therapist. So My session was at 6 last night and my wife's was at 7. During my session, we probed into the meaning and source of all these jealous feelings and messages and think we've found it. One of the things I had been seeing this therapist for is codependency (on several different levels but I'll just touch on the relevant one here). Growing up, my bio father left my mother when I was two weeks old. I never knew him. My mom remarried when I was around 6 years old. But there was a 5-6 year gap in there where I didn't have a direct father. My mom and I lived across the street from my grandparents during that time and my grandparents babysat me during the day while my mom worked. My grandfather stepped in as surrogate father, which is a good thing, for the most part. My grandfather was very codependent himself. He put others' needs before himself and even his family (in unhealthy ways), his ego was large and was fed by helping others (and receiving the praise), teaching others (because he's better than they are at X....and receiving the praise), and he definitely had a "my way or my way" attitude. Well, I picked up on most of that being so young and it worked its way into my personality. The thought process I learned was that my worth was determined by how much praise I received from others, and being others' "savior" or teacher or "knight in shining armor." I also along the way developed a bit of an unnatural view of beauty as well, although I'm not sure where or when. So how this translates to tattoos in girls I'm interested in and with: when I see a girl with a tattoo, my mind immediately thinks that "everyone will think she's cooler than me, she'll show off that tattoo to everyone and they'll be interested in her and not me, and she did that without me and/or before me so I can't show her that cool thing or teach her or do it for her, and that tattoo makes her need me less, therefore my worth is less." The thought patterns are extremely irrational, but the subconscious mind, the most powerful part of your mind (and also the simplest) is not always rational. That's where all this is coming from.

So after my session, it was my wife's turn, but instead of us just swapping, the therapist convinced her to come into the room while I was still there and explain this stuff to her. If I tried, she wouldn't have received it as she was shut down to me (and still is). My wife did receive it, but it still in a not-good place (as am I). The therapist did manage to convince her to come home last night and sleep at home. She slept in another room, but at least she was home and not in some hotel. I'm thankful for that. It seems we still have a long way to go as my wife did not want anything to do with me when she left for work this morning and peeled out in front of the house. But it's progress I think.

This was the perfect storm of both of us poking old but fresh open emotional wounds in each other at the same time. I don't think either of us was trying to hurt the other, she got the tattoo, I reacted because my old wound was poked and my reaction poked her old wound and here we are.

Anyway, that's my update.