Help in Debate

[WithHisBloodWentOurSin]

Hello everyone, Im in a Grade 11 English Honors class, we are debating "Creation vs Evolution" I being a Creationist jumped at this chance. If anyone Could give me Points for Creation, and Points for Evolution (so i know what im up against) and possibly how to Cross examine them and rebute them. I would be Very very happy. (Prayers would also be nice)

James
Brother in Christ
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[Jet Black]

here area few threads to help you know what you might be upp against:

http://www.christianforums.com/t41209&page=1

http://www.christianforums.com/t36392

http://www.christianforums.com/t36270

http://www.christianforums.com/t36254

http://christianforums.com/t50735

http://christianforums.com/t50900

http://christianforums.com/t52191

Paleontology

http://christianforums.com/t42599

http://christianforums.com/t43339

Biogeography

http://christianforums.com/t40474

Biodiversity

http://christianforums.com/t40873

Archeology

http://christianforums.com/t52191

(thanks to frumious for these)

here are a load of arguments you shouldn't use:

http://answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp

and if you could get your opponents to contact me, I would be much obliged. ta.

 

[Jet Black]

oh I forgot my current favourite:

http://christianforums.com/t59521

 

[Jet Black]

also you should be aware that you might get some help here, but most people, even the christians, will just tell you that creationism and YEC is a falsified theory.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

For info on evolution, the Talk.Origins archive is the best bet.

Specifically, you might want to read:

Introduction to Evolutionary Biology (kinda long, but comprehensive)
What is Evolution
Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

I'd also recommend Arguments we think creationists should NOT use (published by AIG, a creationist organization).

And finally, the An Index to Creationist Claims, which contains brief rebuttals to practically all creationist claims. Just so you know what to expect...

And yeah, like JB said, creationism (especially Young Earth Creationism) has been falsified by the data for over 150 years. Likewise, evolution is firmly established science. So you're debating a pretty tough position, either for creationism or against evolution.

 

[Jet Black]

strategically, you could always play the "know your opponent game" in which you realise that your opponent is only in the 11th grade too, and so you can use a load of strawmen arguments. this however would be intellectually dishonest.

here are methods of argument you should avoid:

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

 

[fungle]

Good ideas at


www.talkorigins.org/faqs-age-fo-earth.html

Follow prompts at the bottom of the page

 

[Jet Black]

do you mean:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

 

[troodon]

strategically, you could always play the "know your opponent game" in which you realise that your opponent is only in the 11th grade too, and so you can use a load of strawmen arguments

Good plan

 

[fungle]

Yes.......Whoops

 

[Jet Black]

Good plan

it is naughty though. and you have to be prepared to lose if your opponent knows about these things.

 

[David Gould]

Flooding your opponent with lots of claims is a good tactic if you want to win the debate. Unless he is well researched he will likely not be able to present a clear rebuttal to most of them and will get bogged down. Before an illinformed audience this will likely carry the day.



But seriously, I suggest researching evolution on the one hand and developing a coherent creation science position on the other that accounts for all of the facts. This may be difficult as no-one has been able to develop such a position, even after decades of "research".

Verbal debates are a very poor way of determining truth, by the way. Clever debaters can win by using clever tactics even when they have poor - or no -facts to resort to.

 

[Jet Black]

Verbal debates are a very poor way of determining truth, by the way. Clever debaters can win by using clever tactics even when they have poor - or no -facts to resort to.

yeap, like Kent Hovind. He uses the "shotgun" approach.... i.e. chucks in random things so quickly that you can't refute all of his points in the time given. He also does it in a way that makes his questions sound simple, when in reality they are not. he also plays to the audience (i.e. hey, you think that we evolved from a banana) ebcause it sounds amusing and wins him friends. all good debating strategies in one sense, but as I said before, intellecually dishonest, because the aim of debate is to win, not discern truth.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Verbal debates are a very poor way of determining truth, by the way. Clever debaters can win by using clever tactics even when they have poor - or no -facts to resort to.

Works for Kent Hovind: strawman arguments, rapid-fire "facts", shifting goalposts all over the place, and plenty of witticisms wins the day. Of course, it's meaningless from a scientific perspective, but if all you care about is convincing the audience, then you're set.

 

[Arikay]

Yep, I agree with pete, If you on the creationist side, dont bother with facts, you wont find any that are true. Just rapid fire "what ifs" and Strawmans. Keep the evolution side answering your questions and you wont need truth or facts to win the debate.

 

[Chris Green]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

Ken Ham is a fantastic creationist. He's constantly debating with the influential evolutionists of today.

 

[Arikay]

Unfortunatly AIG also takes false information and presents it as truth,
7 examples can be found here, http://www.christianforums.com/t60635

Not the greatest source IMHO.
(why would they do this? )

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

Ken Ham is a fantastic creationist. He's constantly debating with the influential evolutionists of today.

 

[fungle]

Showing the flag

 

[theomnifish]

I'm just wondering, why are you debating Creationism and Evolution in an ENGLISH class? I dunno, it just seems like something that you'd be talking about in Ancient Civilizations or Biology, not English.

 

[Jet Black]

well debate is usually a language skill. sadly the teacher has picked a terrible subject for this, especially forrelatively uneducated 16 year olds.