Help! (I can think of no other title)

[ufonium2]

Ok guys, I need advice (I realize this isn't exactly theological, but I really don't feel like wading through 200 "love conquers all" posts from folks in the Life Stages forum):

I've been dating this guy for a while and we are getting fairly serious. Here's the problem: He's Presbyterian born and raised, believes in predestination/the elect, basically a total Calvinist. He also has some misconceptions about Catholicism (form the mostly-anabaptist town where he grew up) which carry over to Orthodoxy ("worshipping Mary," stuff like that.)

Whenever we talk about religion, he goes into what seems to me to be attack mode, but he says that's just his way of learning. I'm new to Orthodoxy, and it wears me out trying to defend something I feel so ignorant about.

He said he is fine with being married in the Orthodox Church, raising kids to be Orthodox, and will even attend services, but has no plans to ever convert. I asked him how he felt about not taking Communion again for the rest of his life, and he got quiet.

So, what do you think? Is the relationship worth it? UGHH!!!!

 

[Photini]

I can certainly understand to a certain point what you're going through. When I "discovered" Orthodoxy, I was engaged to a very wonderful man...He loved my children like his own. But I felt calling it off was the better road for both of us. (This, of course, would have been a totally different matter if we'd already been married) It was hard, but he was actually extremely understanding...and we are still friends now.

I can't say one way or the other in your situation. But it seemed to me, that Orthodox life is very difficult as it is, much less trying to live that life with someone who either disagrees with most of your beliefs, or wants nothing to do with them at all. I just couldn't conciously place me and my children in that situation.

 

[Suzannah]

Ok guys, I need advice (I realize this isn't exactly theological, but I really don't feel like wading through 200 "love conquers all" posts from folks in the Life Stages forum):

I've been dating this guy for a while and we are getting fairly serious. Here's the problem: He's Presbyterian born and raised, believes in predestination/the elect, basically a total Calvinist. He also has some misconceptions about Catholicism (form the mostly-anabaptist town where he grew up) which carry over to Orthodoxy ("worshipping Mary," stuff like that.)

Whenever we talk about religion, he goes into what seems to me to be attack mode, but he says that's just his way of learning. I'm new to Orthodoxy, and it wears me out trying to defend something I feel so ignorant about.

He said he is fine with being married in the Orthodox Church, raising kids to be Orthodox, and will even attend services, but has no plans to ever convert. I asked him how he felt about not taking Communion again for the rest of his life, and he got quiet.

So, what do you think? Is the relationship worth it? UGHH!!!!

Wow. Without knowing how old you are, what your past is, (if any...I've had one! LOL!) it's really difficult to say. But I would say after reading this last paragraph that your young man has a stiff upper lip that might not last through "the rest of your lives". He says it now,but since he knows next to little about Orthodoxy, he may not be able to truly assess this objectively. My advice: call it off for now, remain friends, tell him that if he wants to continue the relationship, he will have to at least study your beliefs from objective sources such as books. He cannot be badgering you for information or explanations because this puts YOU on the defensive, and this is not how a prospective husband should treat his "intended". If he's in "attack mode" now, just think how it will be at your baby's baptism, and he is still not a convert. He won't just be "out of communion" with the Church your children attend, he will be "out of communion" with you and the children. And he should not be treating you this way anyway...I would say he must be quite young and/or shaky in his own belief system.
That is this old lady's two cents.

 

[ufonium2]

Thanks Photini and Suzannah! You are the best.

 

[Suzannah]

Thanks Photini and Suzannah! You are the best.

to you....I keep thinking about this...he should NOT be in "attack" mode at any time with you!!! What is he thinking?????

 

[xenia]

There is nothing better on this ol' earth than to share one's faith with one's spouse. What a great joy it must be to have a husband who leads the Christian family as Christ intends- leading family prayers, fasts, church attendance, etc. If one's husband just goes along with your faith, you will tend to feel like you are both playing games, and boy, the kids will pick up on this. You will find yourself making compromises all the time. My husband isn't Orthodox. He's sweet and understanding, but really, I am all alone in this. It could be a LOT worse, but it could be a lot better. We could be united in the raising of our kids, rather than the haphazard way we go about things. My husband is a Christian, btw. He's amused by my Orthodoxy, not at all hostile. That's still very difficult. It's hard for me to take the Orthodox life seriously with him chuckling in the background. Bottom line for me: Being Orthodox is hard enough without making it even more difficult with an ambivalent or disinterested spouse.

Love, Xenia

 

[Christy4Christ]

I know that this might not mean much because I am Catholic but still it's close. I was with a guy who was Lutheran and we fought constantly about my beliefs, it got to a point where I really just had to get out because he was just so hard to talk to about the most important thing in my life! I found that I really didn't have anything in common with him because the center of my life was my faith. He dishonored Mary by not even acknowledging her, he hated when I said my Rosary. In church (whenever he would go with me) he would insist on taking communion anyway! I was finally like, "I cannot do this anymore!" and I got out of it. I was fine afterwards.

 

[Michael G]

I do not know the particulars of your relationship, but living an Orthodox life is not easy. It makes it all the more rough when your partner is not with you in the Orthodoxy. Being a convert, and watching my wife convert from the Church of Christ, I know that is not an easy road to take. I am not going to tell you to get rid of him, but if you insist on continuing in the relationship, move slowly. There are things like the Great Lenten Fast, the Divine Liturgy, the Orthodox view of Grace and Sin, Icons, our view of The Theotokus among others which might cause some rather large stumbling stones in such a relationship. My suggestion is to pray intensely about it and then whatever decision you make, make sure it is the right one.
Peace,
Michael

 

[countrymousenc]

Ufonium2:

Whenever we talk about religion, he goes into what seems to me to be attack mode, but he says that's just his way of learning.

My hubby has always done the same thing, without being a Calvinist, and long before I was ever interested in Orthodoxy. He's kidding himself about it "just being his way of learning." He does this because the whole issue makes him very uncomfortable, afraid of getting closer than arm's length to a reality that he fears. Go carefully, and ask yourself whether you can live with his behavior over the long term, because it may take years for him to change, if he ever changes at all. And if you have sons, his skepticism will affect them in ways you do not want; training them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord will be harder than you now expect.

Love in Christ,
Dianne

 

[Momzilla]

Well, Xenia took the words right out of my mouth. Unequally yoked marriages can be very difficult at times, especially when there are kids involved. Raising the kids Orthodox means that you will have an Orthodox home, which means that even without converting he will have to live a pretty much Orthodox life.