Help for the Narcissist?

[Tom Studebaker]

Friends, I have someone very close to me who is a narcissist. Now that label is thrown around often these days and most of the time I believe it's inappropriate and self serving. With that said I have been careful to study the subject out before settling on that description. The person I care about seeks empathy often by seeking out people who will hear his stories and not question him. If he is questioned he uses his "many councilors" against one another by just repeating a contrary opinion to control the conversation. But though he craves empathy for himself he possesses no empathy or interest in the struggles of others. His manipulation, entitlement, lack of self-awareness, and desire to control all areas of life eventually destroys all of his relationships, or at least the ones who catch on and refuse to be controlled. He simply can't be wrong and even if he admits to being wrong it's with an agenda get something from it. He sees people and relationships just for profit. What he can get from each relationship is the only thing that's important. But the greater problem is this: In all my study and research I've only been able to come to an understanding as to what his problem is. Helping him . . . now that's another subject. Not much encouragement out there for helping a narcissist, even in Christian circles. As a matter of fact the advice I hear most often is to avoid them and if you can't avoid them then keep communication very guarded and limited. As you might guess, this is a close family member I'm talking about. Someone I love and care about. Someone I walked through a divorce with, lawyers and court dates, the whole ugly thing; took into our home; sat up many nights with; and nursed back to health after a long hospital stay. He separated himself from our family for 4 years, came back the last 3 years during the divorce and recently blew up at me and separated again. For how long I don't know. And yes, he does both know that I love him (or did anyway) and understands what I believe the source of his problems are. I will continue to pray for him and love him while not backing down from the truth. Beyond that I'm looking for some "happy ending" stories of narcissists. If you don't have that I will take encouragement. God bless. Tom

 

[BobRyan]

I know a few and I agree - it is unpleasant and frustrating.

Another frustrating issue for them is that those that they cannot fool - they try to avoid or build a defense against them.

What I do is play along with them - as if I don't know what they are doing. This is the game they love -- because their logic circuit is broken so they can quickly come to think of you as someone who is falling for their advertising. They themselves fall for their own advertising except when they are around the ones they consider to be "lesser" or "boxed-in".

Prayer is one answer - and another one is to get them to look into the life of Christ.
There is a great (free, online, world-class) commentary on the life of Christ that I find helpful and it shows them how to be a normal Christian.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

This Psychologist has worked a lot with Narcists, even more with people recovering from them.

Your asking for a lot. I'm going to find another video where she mentions what she accomplished with them it's very modest.


I do know of a testimony of a psychopath that became a Christian that fits the bill as a conversion story.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Friends, I have someone very close to me who is a narcissist. Now that label is thrown around often these days and most of the time I believe it's inappropriate and self serving. With that said I have been careful to study the subject out before settling on that description. The person I care about seeks empathy often by seeking out people who will hear his stories and not question him. If he is questioned he uses his "many councilors" against one another by just repeating a contrary opinion to control the conversation. But though he craves empathy for himself he possesses no empathy or interest in the struggles of others. His manipulation, entitlement, lack of self-awareness, and desire to control all areas of life eventually destroys all of his relationships, or at least the ones who catch on and refuse to be controlled. He simply can't be wrong and even if he admits to being wrong it's with an agenda get something from it. He sees people and relationships just for profit. What he can get from each relationship is the only thing that's important. But the greater problem is this: In all my study and research I've only been able to come to an understanding as to what his problem is. Helping him . . . now that's another subject. Not much encouragement out there for helping a narcissist, even in Christian circles. As a matter of fact the advice I hear most often is to avoid them and if you can't avoid them then keep communication very guarded and limited. As you might guess, this is a close family member I'm talking about. Someone I love and care about. Someone I walked through a divorce with, lawyers and court dates, the whole ugly thing; took into our home; sat up many nights with; and nursed back to health after a long hospital stay. He separated himself from our family for 4 years, came back the last 3 years during the divorce and recently blew up at me and separated again. For how long I don't know. And yes, he does both know that I love him (or did anyway) and understands what I believe the source of his problems are. I will continue to pray for him and love him while not backing down from the truth. Beyond that I'm looking for some "happy ending" stories of narcissists. If you don't have that I will take encouragement. God bless. Tom

I've known one who is much the same, and quite a bit different in some respects, but two thoughts come to me about it. One is that I am as sure that God took her to be with him, when she died, as I am that I will be there. And the other is that in my assessments of her, she need not live (or have lived) up to my measure. That is what I will be judged on —not her.

There was finally, on this earth, no resolution to the problem, no happy ending, but I have every confidence that she holds a more honorable place than I will, because she was whole-hearted beyond anything I have been, to live according to what she believed to be important, blind as she was to how she treated others.

All I can tell you is let it bring you closer to God, praying for wisdom and love and obedience for yourself, and muddle through the best you can.

 

[Tom Studebaker]

I've known one who is much the same, and quite a bit different in some respects, but two thoughts come to me about it. One is that I am as sure that God took her to be with him, when she died, as I am that I will be there. And the other is that in my assessments of her, she need not live (or have lived) up to my measure. That is what I will be judged on —not her.

There was finally, on this earth, no resolution to the problem, no happy ending, but I have every confidence that she holds a more honorable place than I will, because she was whole-hearted beyond anything I have been, to live according to what she believed to be important, blind as she was to how she treated others.

All I can tell you is let it bring you closer to God, praying for wisdom and love and obedience for yourself, and muddle through the best you can.

"Let it bring you closer to God." Amen, Thanks Mark

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Before the 10 minute mark this Psychologist speaks about working with Narcists in counseling and therapy.

 

[Tom Studebaker]

Before the 10 minute mark this Psychologist speaks about working with Narcists in counseling and therapy.

Thank you Pavel. I have seen this one and like her. I also enjoy Darren Magee and Todd Grande. Again, 99% of what I come across is help for the victims of the narcissist, not the narcissist.

 

[sandman]

Friends, I have someone very close to me who is a narcissist. Now that label is thrown around often these days and most of the time I believe it's inappropriate and self serving. With that said I have been careful to study the subject out before settling on that description. The person I care about seeks empathy often by seeking out people who will hear his stories and not question him. If he is questioned he uses his "many councilors" against one another by just repeating a contrary opinion to control the conversation. But though he craves empathy for himself he possesses no empathy or interest in the struggles of others. His manipulation, entitlement, lack of self-awareness, and desire to control all areas of life eventually destroys all of his relationships, or at least the ones who catch on and refuse to be controlled. He simply can't be wrong and even if he admits to being wrong it's with an agenda get something from it. He sees people and relationships just for profit. What he can get from each relationship is the only thing that's important. But the greater problem is this: In all my study and research I've only been able to come to an understanding as to what his problem is. Helping him . . . now that's another subject. Not much encouragement out there for helping a narcissist, even in Christian circles. As a matter of fact the advice I hear most often is to avoid them and if you can't avoid them then keep communication very guarded and limited. As you might guess, this is a close family member I'm talking about. Someone I love and care about. Someone I walked through a divorce with, lawyers and court dates, the whole ugly thing; took into our home; sat up many nights with; and nursed back to health after a long hospital stay. He separated himself from our family for 4 years, came back the last 3 years during the divorce and recently blew up at me and separated again. For how long I don't know. And yes, he does both know that I love him (or did anyway) and understands what I believe the source of his problems are. I will continue to pray for him and love him while not backing down from the truth. Beyond that I'm looking for some "happy ending" stories of narcissists. If you don't have that I will take encouragement. God bless. Tom

I understand you desire to help.... it’s part of our nature as Christians …sometimes to our detriment.
You sound like you have done your research on how to deal with a narcissist …but I think you need to approach this differently.
Since he is a family member you probably have more insight into his life that may help you understand WHY he is the way he is. If you can get to the root or reasons of this…. it’s much easier to go after the cause… than it is to shadowbox with the effects…..

Your page states you are a charismatic …I assume you adhere to the manifestations of the spirit listed in 1Co 12:8-10. Two of those may be necessary to tap ….. word of knowledge and word of wisdom.
What you can know or figure out by your 5 senses may be helpful in finding the cause…but what you don’t or can’t know by your senses… is where those abilities from God are used. Asking God for the information you need (knowledge) and what to do about it (wisdom) are available as a born again believer…..(wisdom is knowledge applied). This is most useful when you are in contact with the person. Ask God for help and speak what he tells you ….every situation at any time is different … God will know and will not steer you wrong. Results may not be immediate …don’t look for results …look to God.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Friends, I have someone very close to me who is a narcissist. Now that label is thrown around often these days and most of the time I believe it's inappropriate and self serving. With that said I have been careful to study the subject out before settling on that description. The person I care about seeks empathy often by seeking out people who will hear his stories and not question him. If he is questioned he uses his "many councilors" against one another by just repeating a contrary opinion to control the conversation. But though he craves empathy for himself he possesses no empathy or interest in the struggles of others. His manipulation, entitlement, lack of self-awareness, and desire to control all areas of life eventually destroys all of his relationships, or at least the ones who catch on and refuse to be controlled. He simply can't be wrong and even if he admits to being wrong it's with an agenda get something from it. He sees people and relationships just for profit. What he can get from each relationship is the only thing that's important. But the greater problem is this: In all my study and research I've only been able to come to an understanding as to what his problem is. Helping him . . . now that's another subject. Not much encouragement out there for helping a narcissist, even in Christian circles. As a matter of fact the advice I hear most often is to avoid them and if you can't avoid them then keep communication very guarded and limited. As you might guess, this is a close family member I'm talking about. Someone I love and care about. Someone I walked through a divorce with, lawyers and court dates, the whole ugly thing; took into our home; sat up many nights with; and nursed back to health after a long hospital stay. He separated himself from our family for 4 years, came back the last 3 years during the divorce and recently blew up at me and separated again. For how long I don't know. And yes, he does both know that I love him (or did anyway) and understands what I believe the source of his problems are. I will continue to pray for him and love him while not backing down from the truth. Beyond that I'm looking for some "happy ending" stories of narcissists. If you don't have that I will take encouragement. God bless. Tom

I don't have any happy ending stories. I do advise you not to allow yourself to be emotionally bound to him. Some people really don't want help. You can lead the horse to water...........

The only hope for anyone is for them to admit that they are sinners. That has to be, "I am wrong." Only God can convict someone of their sin. It's the Holy Spirit working through the preached word of God that can convict. How effective that is depends on the heart of the hearer, not the preacher. We will see many more narcissists. Children who have never been disciplined are ideal candidates. I wish I had something more positive to say.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Thank you Pavel. I have seen this one and like her. I also enjoy Darren Magee and Todd Grande. Again, 99% of what I come across is help for the victims of the narcissist, not the narcissist.

In terms of the previous video in my first post she seems to be highly recommending authenticity. Which actually is something that is good in Christianity in general, my favorite inspiring TED talk is this one that I'm really using a lot for my own life, not to mention developing a fledgling ministry.

This might be about as good as it gets, this Psychiatrist himself is a narcist! I would look for him and follow him on Youtube and other social media.

Well congratulations looks like this is a new form of therapy being pioneered . I guess it takes a narcist to heal a narcist! (at least when it comes to inventing affective treatment beyond the modest cognitive behavioral modification of that previous therapist I linked to).

It may take a while before it is available in your area. Back in 2019 Vaknin just started to train people to do his "Cold Therapy" aimed at various "Cluster B" personalities.

 

[Tom Studebaker]

I don't have any happy ending stories. I do advise you not to allow yourself to be emotionally bound to him. Some people really don't want help. You can lead the horse to water...........

The only hope for anyone is for them to admit that they are sinners. That has to be, "I am wrong." Only God can convict someone of their sin. It's the Holy Spirit working through the preached word of God that can convict. How effective that is depends on the heart of the hearer, not the preacher. We will see many more narcissists. Children who have never been disciplined are ideal candidates. I wish I had something more positive to say.

What you had to say Pete is real and I appreciate that. In any of life's trials there is always our part in the solution and God's part, His part being much larger. Of course I am involved with daily trusting Him, praying and seeking Him as to what my part is. That's all I'm doing in this thread, seeking the wisdom and experience of others while I follow the marching orders I already have from my Father. I love my son, always will. It's difficult seeing him make a mess of life and hurting others. I will always pray that he humbles himself, finds a heart of repentance, eyes that truly see and he begins to see himself the way God sees him, both the good and what needs to change. Again, thank you Pete.

 

[Aussie Pete]

What you had to say Pete is real and I appreciate that. In any of life's trials there is always our part in the solution and God's part, His part being much larger. Of course I am involved with daily trusting Him, praying and seeking Him as to what my part is. That's all I'm doing in this thread, seeking the wisdom and experience of others while I follow the marching orders I already have from my Father. I love my son, always will. It's difficult seeing him make a mess of life and hurting others. I will always pray that he humbles himself, finds a heart of repentance, eyes that truly see and he begins to see himself the way God sees him, both the good and what needs to change. Again, thank you Pete.

I wish I could be more helpful. My son is just fine, has an excellent job, lives within his means, and is friendly towards me. He does not confess Christ and refuses to discuss the topic. My daughter has a bunch of kids (4 last count) and wants nothing to do with me. I found out about the 4th grandchild from my son. Her husband is intelligent but hates authority. He mouthed his way out his job years ago and has not worked since. It's a shame as he has a lot going for him. He keeps knocking people over with the chip on his shoulder. He's somewhat more settled as he gets older. I last saw them about 18 months ago. They never contact me. What do I do? Pray. That's all I can do.

 

[Tom Studebaker]

I wish I could be more helpful. My son is just fine, has an excellent job, lives within his means, and is friendly towards me. He does not confess Christ and refuses to discuss the topic. My daughter has a bunch of kids (4 last count) and wants nothing to do with me. I found out about the 4th grandchild from my son. Her husband is intelligent but hates authority. He mouthed his way out his job years ago and has not worked since. It's a shame as he has a lot going for him. He keeps knocking people over with the chip on his shoulder. He's somewhat more settled as he gets older. I last saw them about 18 months ago. They never contact me. What do I do? Pray. That's all I can do.

Love your signature Pete. I have a son in law who is a flat earther, or at least was. Has not talked about it in some time as he got a lot of push back from the rest of the family. I've shared with him several times that all the countries of the world, who many want to destroy each other, would need to be working together (good luck with that) to hide "the earth is flat" not to mention all of NASA, every pilot, and . . . . well you get the picture. God reconciles people to Himself and each other (if we let Him) and Satan divides. Our enemy's greatest accomplishment during Covid is not to kill people, his greatest feat has been to divide Christians. And his attempts to destroy family continues to top the agenda. I'm so sorry about your daughter. Glad you have a good relationship with your son. The church talks a lot about forgiveness, which is good, but far too little about repentance which is tied to salvation and continued Christian growth throughout God's Word. Love the end of the Movie "Fireproof" where repentance meets forgiveness in the middle of that fire station bay and continues to move closer to one another. I know that we can have a wonderful relationship with God if we forgive, even if the other person doesn't repent. I know that we can also enjoy peace with God if we repent, even if the other person doesn't forgive. But true fellowship doesn't happen between people until there is both forgiveness and repentance. Sounds like you love our Lord so much and have repented of whatever shortcomings you have had as a father and that you forgive your daughter. May your daughter seek repentance and reconcile with you and God and may your son find repentance and forgiveness in Christ's perfect sacrifice for him.