Help an atheist.. erm, Buddhist.. erm, Christian (?) out!!

mrtsc said:

What do you mean? Of course Catholics accept Jesus as their Savior, they know they are sinners, and they confess sins to priests (that's one thing I disagree with the church about, I think!). Also, I've been baptised (as an infant, obviously, which I know you disagree with) and confirmed in the RCC.

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I am afraid there is a longstanding war between certain groups of Catholics and Protestants when it comes to who is Saved and loved by God.

As far as I am concerned, I am glad you have come to a decision on which road to take in your spiritual journey.

mrtsc said:

What do you mean? Of course Catholics accept Jesus as their Savior, they know they are sinners, and they confess sins to priests (that's one thing I disagree with the church about, I think!). Also, I've been baptised (as an infant, obviously, which I know you disagree with) and confirmed in the RCC.

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No... thats not what I meant. Based on your previous posts, you felt that he was no longer your savior. That had nothing to do with being a protestant. You thought there was a God, but didn't believe he'd died to cover your sins etc... if I got that wrong, and you do believe that now, very sorry

Well, its much deeper than that. You make it sound like the differences between Roman catholics and protestants is meerly a name difference.

And, the way baptisim is done is very important.

[BIBLE]Mark 16:16[/BIBLE] So obviously, baptisim is very important.

[BIBLE]Ephesians 4:5[/BIBLE] This shows there is only one baptisim. So it is very important to get it right, how to do it!

[BIBLE]Mark 1:9-10[/BIBLE] We see here, Jesus considered batisim was immersion, not a sprinkling of water. And since there is only one baptisim...

THINGS ONE MUST DO BEFORE BAPTISIM

[BIBLE]Matthew 28:19[/BIBLE]

Learn Gods requirements

[BIBLE]Mark 16:16[/BIBLE]

Believe the truth of God

[BIBLE]Acts 2:38[/BIBLE]

Repent your sins.

How can an infant so such things?

Ultimately only Jesus can decide who knows him and who does not. Although the scriptures you quote are undeniable, I wonder if they give someone the right to judge someone elses "saved-ness"? Get to know people and seek to discover where Jesus is in their life and learn with them.

I never judged if one was saved, did I? Instead, I judged whether what one did was biblically endorsed.

"By their fruits you shall know them"

mrtsc said:

Do you believe all Catholics are hell-bound then, having only been baptised as infants? You'll probably respond "Well, that's God's call" or something, but I'd guess you have a feeling one way or the other.

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I can honestly answer no. Christians from all denominations will make it to heaven. But not many, even from my own one. "Narrow is the way, and few will find it". Lets just say though, that things which may appear like little insignificant things to us may have greater meaning behind them.

All adam and eve did was eat a piece of fruit. What was the big deal about that?

Also, I do not believe in a everlasting hell fire.

exactly. Sooo.. to God, doing the correct form of baptisim is obviously important. "If ye love me, keep my commandments". It is a commandment of God to be baptised in a specific way. If you go against his wishes, well, what right do you have to do that?

Well, for the first one, its stating teach them and then baptised them. Looking back, I can see where you are getting confused on the other two.

But look at John the Baptist. He refused to baptised just anyone, didn't he?

Heres a good book to read:
The Case for the Creater
By Lee Storbel.

Do what seems right to you in community. The key is freindship... with others, with God, with yourself (corny, I know). You may take or leave the legalist view of Christianity, as a rule of thumb, if it seems logical and right and your spirit (inner self) agrees, it is right to you unless you experience otherwise, or your mates say "er, that's dodgy!"
While baptism and such is important, it is not essential. Jesus is the only person who can decide who knows him, but you, of course, can simply choice to seek him out in the day-to-day. If you are an artist or into art I may be able to help a bit more, if not, but you are intersted, PM me... essentially your faith is your own, but we maintain our relationship with God through relationship with others - choose wisely, look for God around you...

Well, that's what I do, if this ain't helpful, take the good and reject the bad.

Flan out.

mrtsc said:

I think Catholics use [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]"But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such." (Matthew 19:14) as part of the reasoning for infant baptism. Plus, I was baptised by immersion in the RCC, as is becoming popular! What do you think of this argument:

[/font]

Premise #1: Circumcision is the sign of the covenant God made with Abraham and should be received by all the members of his covenant (Gen. 17:10-11).

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Premise #2: The children of members of Abraham's covenant are themselves members of Abraham's covenant (Gen 17:7, Dt. 7:9, 30:6, 1Ch 16:15, Psa 103:17, 105:8).

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Premise #3: Christians are members of Abraham's covenant (Galatians 3:6-9 & Galatians 3:26-29; Romans 11.17-24; Rom. 4:16; Eph. 2:11-13; Eph. 3:3-6; Rom 2:28-29; 1 Peter 2:9; Gal. 6:16; Phil 3:2-3).

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Premise #4: Therefore, the children of Christians are members of Abraham's covenant (follows logically and necessarily from 2 & 3; 1 Cor. 7:14; Acts 2:38).

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Premise #5: Baptism is the New Testament form of circumcision (Col. 2:11-12 cf. Eph 2:11-12; Galatians 3:26-29 cf. 1 Cor. 12:13 & Col. 3:11).

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Conclusion: Therefore, the children of Christians should receive the sign of the covenant by being baptized (logically and necessarily from 1, 4, & 5).

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Uhm, I say that the gentiles did not need to be circumsied XP unless did I miss something here? I might've.

First off, God IS real. Many question him. Many try to find reasons why the evidence is wrong, but it's still there.
www.answersingenesis.org

Also Jesus said no one goes to the father but through him.
If you want to make sence of Jesus, ask him into your heart as your Lord and savior. The bible says the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. So stop perishing! Ask him to save you. Feel free to contact me if you feel bombarder by all the voices in here.

mrtsc said:

"Why give my whole life to a God I'm not even sure exists? I'm not supposed to touch because a cloudbeing says no?"
"Yeah, but so many people I respect believe in Him! Even people considered to be very intelligent!"
"Yeah, but look at Falwell and those guys... I don't hate gays, and all the ones I've met seem very nice... How can I respect myself while saying they shouldn't be able to get married?"

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You sould'nt believe in Jesus Christ just because some people you respect do.You should believe in Jesus Christ for you,not anyone else.
Its called faith,We cant see Him but know hes there watching over us and part of following Him is to obey Him.We are told by God though the bible to Believe in jesus Christ,repent and to follow Him.Nothing i can say will convince you ,you've got to make this choice on your own.God Bless




Romans 10:9"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.

Acts 2:21"And everyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved."

Romans 6:23"For the wages of sin is death,but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

John 3:16"For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son,that Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world,but to save the world through him."

1 John 1:9"If we confess our sins,He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Romans 3:22"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Galatians 5:24"Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

Romans 10:17"Consequently,faith comes hearing the message,and the message is heard through the word of Christ."

John 5:24"I tell you the truth ,whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned he has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 10:12"For there is no difference between jew and gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

2 Corinthians 5:17"Therefore,if anyone is in Christ,he is a new creation the old has gone the new has come."

1 Corinthians 15:55-58"Where,O death,Is your victory?Where,O death,Is your Sting?The sting of death is sin,and the power of sin is the law.But thanks be to God! He gives us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."