HELLUCINATIONS

[keras]

An hallucination is: to see something that isn’t there and if what is perceived contradicts scripture, then it is from the depths of hell.

People who believe that God will rapture them to heaven sometime from now - to when Jesus Returns say, that a rapture - removal of the Church - is prophesied. But the reality is that it isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing said to happen. Even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, does not mention heaven.

Rapture believers say: We are not appointed to wrath, and, The Lord delivers us from tribulation. To make these scriptures mean a removal from planet earth, directly to God’s dwelling place of heaven, is an impossible stretch of the imagination.

What people seem unable to comprehend is how the Lord will facilitate the travel to, the gathering and the settling of His faithful Christian peoples, into all of the Holy Land.
Many Prophesies show this is God’s Plan for all the people who prove their trust in Him and who: Call upon His name, for His protection, through all that must happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

What people seem unable to comprehend is how the Lord will facilitate the travel to, the gathering and the settling of His faithful Christian peoples, into all of the Holy Land.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Can we agree that -- wherever it is -- we will be there with Jesus?

 

[keras]

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Can we agree that -- wherever it is -- we will be there with Jesus?

We Christian people will go to live in all of the holy Land BEFORE Jesus Returns. As Ezekiel 40 to 48 describe.

Your quote of John 14:1-3, will not be fulfilled until the new Jerusalem comes, AFTER the Millennium. Rev 21:1

 

[AV1611VET]

We Christian people will go to live in all of the holy Land BEFORE Jesus Returns.

And how are we going to get there?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

We Christian people will go to live in all of the holy Land BEFORE Jesus Returns. As Ezekiel 40 to 48 describe.

Your quote of John 14:1-3, will not be fulfilled until the new Jerusalem comes, AFTER the Millennium. Rev 21:1

Acts 1:9-11 (NIV): After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Acts 1:9-11 dictate how Jesus will next return, fully validating John 14:3.

Let's first look at how Jesus ascended. In Acts 1:9, Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only (His disciples). Jesus was very soon taken out of their sight by a cloud. He then went into Heaven.

1 Th 4:16-17 are the only verses that strictly align with Acts 9-11. In 1 Th 4:16, Jesus will descend. In 1 Th 4:17, we are taken up into into heavenly clouds. We will we pass through those heavenly clouds. Jesus will descend into our view, only. We are the believers to whom Jesus will descend into the view of, only. We meet Jesus in Heaven. His descent is minimal. That is also reflected in John 14:3 (KJV): And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ---- We are raptured straight to Heaven.

Now, before you claim John 14:3 doesn't say we go to Heaven, notice the wording of that verse. The semi-colon introduces a clarification. Let's first ask ourselves, "Where is Jesus now?" Therefore, after the semicolon in John 14:3, "that where I am" is where Jesus is now. He will rapture us directly to Heaven. In fact, all raptures in the Bible go straight to Heaven: 2 Kings 2:11 and Rev 11:12. John 14:3 will be no different.

In John 14:3, we are raptured TO Heaven. In Rev 21:2 (NIV): I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. ----- The New Heaven comes down to us. In John 14:3, we are taken TO Heaven. Therefore, John 14:3 has nothing to do with Rev 21:2. 1 Th 4:16-17 and John 14:3 occur pre-Trib.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

We Christian people will go to live in all of the holy Land BEFORE Jesus Returns. As Ezekiel 40 to 48 describe.

Your quote of John 14:1-3, will not be fulfilled until the new Jerusalem comes, AFTER the Millennium. Rev 21:1

There are NO believers who enter the Trib. Proof is from Rev 6:4 (ESV): And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword. ---- No believers would be made to kill each other.

Also, in Rev 6:15-17, "everyone" in the world is gathered. They all run in terror to hide from an alleged sighting of Jesus. Their behavior is the complete opposite of what believers would do. No believers enter the Trib.

Any alleged believers in the Trib are new converts from the hard work of the 144k (Rev 7:1-18) and the 2W (Two Witnesses) in Rev 11:3. They are all martyred and become the souls under the altar in Rev 6:10 and (implied in) Rev 20:4. All are resurrected in the last sentence of Rev 20:4, and they are next seen in Heaven in Rev 7:9-18.

 

[Ace777]

And how are we going to get there?

How do most people get there?

 

[keras]

And how are we going to get there?

Read Isaiah 66:20 and make your choice.

John 14:3 occur pre-Trib.

I won't be entering into any discussion with you, as you have amply demonstrated how Bible truths have no relation to your beliefs.
Everyone can see how deluded you are, making false claims, as above,
You are one I had in mind when I wrote Hellucinations.

 

[Ace777]

Everyone can see how deluded you are

I do not see that. He is one of the most brilliant people I know in his understanding. But like the Bible itself he talks in Riddles. (Except for Moses of course: "With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles" Numbers 12 8

Exodus 33:11
Thus the LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

ONLY Jesus is on the level of Moses. Moses tells us about Jesus.

Deuteronomy 18:15​

“The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me [Moses] from among you, from your countrymen (brothers, brethren). You shall listen to him.

 

[Ace777]

An hallucination is: to see something that isn’t there

Imagination as a function of the primarily “thinking” brain involves experiencing an idea, insight, or concept that has not previously been formulated. Hallucination as a function of the primarily sensing brain involves experiencing what is not there in reality.

 

[Ace777]

Any alleged believers in the Trib are new converts from the hard work of the 144k (Rev 7:1-18)

I am glad you brought this up. If their mission is to evangelize the world and proclaim the gospel then why does the church disregard what they are saying now, today?

The number 144,000 appears three times in the Book of Revelation, and is first mentioned in Revelation 7:4, which says, "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel". The 144,000 are described as being "sealed" by God, which means they are protected from divine judgments and the wrath of the Antichrist. Their mission is to evangelize the world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Read Isaiah 66:20 and make your choice.

I won't be entering into any discussion with you, as you have amply demonstrated how Bible truths have no relation to your beliefs.
Everyone can see how deluded you are, making false claims, as above,
You are one I had in mind when I wrote Hellucinations.

The pre-Trib timing of the rapture was plainly stated in early Bibles, until KJV intentionally and falsely edited 2 Th 2:3 from "departure" to "falling away." There is no way "falling away" can fit the context of rapture from 2 Th 2:1. There is also no relationship of that verse to the 2A. 2 Th 2:1-3 were the most authoritative reference on the pre-Trib timing of the rapture. But, lacking that, 1 Th 1:10 will do nicely. God's wrath is sure to come in the 2nd seal per Rev 6:4 and Ezekiel 14:21. What "delivers us" translates to aligns with the second usage of "deliverance." How much of a descent by Jesus is there in Rev 4:1 (another verse of irrefutable proof of the pre-Trib timing of the rapture)? The descent by Jesus in 1 Th 4:16 might only be from His very elevated throne. All raptures go directly to Heaven. All evidence points to John 14:3 proving the rapture goes straight to Heaven.

There are a handful of verses that prove only unbelievers enter the Trib. Your attempt to discredit that statement is based on verses that cite the "saints" in the Trib. With Rev 6:15-17 being irrefutable proof of only unbelievers on Earth, all those saints are clearly new converts.

Keras, you won't enter into this discussion because your false premise can't be defended against the biblical facts above.

 

[Ace777]

There are a handful of verses that prove only unbelievers enter the Trib.

I believe people if they tell me the are mid or post trib believers. I do not accuse them of being unbelievers. Matthew 9:29 “According to your faith let it be done to you";

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I am glad you brought this up. If their mission is to evangelize the world and proclaim the gospel then why does the church disregard what they are saying now, today?

The number 144,000 appears three times in the Book of Revelation, and is first mentioned in Revelation 7:4, which says, "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel". The 144,000 are described as being "sealed" by God, which means they are protected from divine judgments and the wrath of the Antichrist. Their mission is to evangelize the world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period.

Many in the Church do not evangelize. That is the quick answer. The why's and wherefores behind that are another matter.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I believe people if they tell me the are mid or post trib believers. I do not accuse them of being unbelievers. Matthew 9:29 “According to your faith let it be done to you";

I, too, don't accuse such folks of being unbelievers. They have their opinion, and that's fine. Now, if they want to challenge me to prove the pre-Trib timing of the rapture, I am willing to respectfully engage.

It's a fascinating study of late to find verses that prove that no believers enter the Trib (Rev 6:4; Rev 6:10; Rev 6:15-17, etc.). The main one is Jesus' promise in Rev 3:10 to keep us from the Trib, by His words, "I will keep you from the hour of trial." That seals the deal right there that the rapture will occur pre-Trib. Other verses help prove that is the case.

 

[Ace777]

Many in the Church do not evangelize.

I went to a church where the pastor was mostly an evangelist. He started off back when they use to set those big tents up and hold a revival. People kept coming and he kept preaching and they ended up building a church.

 

[Ace777]

They have their opinion, and that's fine.

My pastor did a play talking about the tribulation. The age of Grace is coming to an end.

 

[AV1611VET]

The age of Grace is coming to an end.

Correct!

 

[Dan Perez]

An hallucination is: to see something that isn’t there and if what is perceived contradicts scripture, then it is from the depths of hell.

People who believe that God will rapture them to heaven sometime from now - to when Jesus Returns say, that a rapture - removal of the Church - is prophesied. But the reality is that it isn’t. Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing said to happen. Even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, does not mention heaven.

Rapture believers say: We are not appointed to wrath, and, The Lord delivers us from tribulation. To make these scriptures mean a removal from planet earth, directly to God’s dwelling place of heaven, is an impossible stretch of the imagination.

What people seem unable to comprehend is how the Lord will facilitate the travel to, the gathering and the settling of His faithful Christian peoples, into all of the Holy Land.
Many Prophesies show this is God’s Plan for all the people who prove their trust in Him and who: Call upon His name, for His protection, through all that must happen.

And there are many that have Hallucinations and here is why !!

# 1 For one there is no Greek word for RAPTURE !!

#2 And when checking 2 Thess 2:1 reads , Now we ask you , on account of the COMING // PAROUSIA , means Christ is COMING

even our GATHERING // EPISYNAGOGE is a Greek noun in the GENTIVE CASE , which means Description and is in the SINGULAR .

# 3 Then in 1 Thess 1:10 Paul wrote , And to wait for His Son from heaven , Whom He raised from the dead , Jesus , the one

RESCUING us from the WRATH , which speaks of the Tribulation .

A lot of Hallucination it seems !!

dan p

 

[Lost4words]

Hallucinations.....also can be directed at those who prophesize and preach that only they know the true meaning of God's Word!