Hell's Pop Clock

[Webers_Home]

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†. Mtt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

†. Mtt 22:14 . . For many are invited, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines many as: consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number

few is defined as: consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: not many; i.e. some, but indeterminately small in number

According to Webster's then; few means a small percentage, and many means a large percentage; viz: most.

As of 05/05/09 @ 07:51 pm EST, there were approximately 306,362,390 people alive in the USA with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which amounts to 7,200 American deaths during just one 24-hour day.

Allowing for say, 1/3rd of those 7,200 daily American deaths to be underage children, that would leave 4,800 adult-age Americans crossing over to the other side every day. Giving them the benefit of the doubt by setting the minimum percentage of the many at 51%, would indicate that 2,448 Americans are taken to perdition each day: roughly 102 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as The Lord didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities few and many. Just think; by the time Katie Couric completes her half-hour evening report, a bare bones minimum of 51 Americans transfer to the Bible's hell.

Using the ratio of 102 condemned souls per hour per 306,362,390 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated population of 6,777,919,509 rounds out to something like 2,256 new arrivals in Hell every sixty minutes on the clock. Those numbers would fill the new 51,800 seat Yankee Stadium in just under one day, with one hour and two minutes to spare.

Christmas and New Year's are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher; and believe me folks, the Bible's God makes no exceptions for those holidays; no, none at all. Souls never stop cascading into the dungeons of Hell in an endless stream like chocolate kisses on a Hershey's conveyor belt.

Up to this point, I've only estimated the number of souls transferring to the infernal regions with current population numbers. There are people languishing in the Bible's hell this very moment, even as you read this, who have been there not only since the time of Christ, nor even since the time of the Pyramids, but since the Flood. I won't speculate on how many years that might be, but Egypt's first pyramid, the Step Pyramid of Djoser, was about 4,600 years ago. The damned from Djoser's era have not only spent 4,600 years in the Bible's hell already, but they have another 4,600 yet to go, and another 4,600 years to go after that. Even after existing in the Bible's hell for 100 billion years, people will still have that many more years out ahead of them; and new souls have been pouring in down there during all the years since Djoser.

Note: To date; approximately 4,282 Americans have died in Iraq since the war began March 19, 2003. In that same period of time— 2,239 days — homeland deaths total approximately 16,120,800. That's a ratio of 3,766 to 1. It appears safer for American soldiers in Iraq than for citizens in the USA.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[k2svpete]

Your point is what?

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: Your point is what?

Most people would rather talk about Heaven, but since Jesus said the majority of humanity has been going the other direction, then I think people should be concerned more about their imminent demise than Heaven.

†. Ecc 7:3 . . It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Webers_Home]

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†. Luke 13:4-5 . . And what about the eighteen men who died when a tower of Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will also perish.

The "tower" of Siloam wasn't necessarily a structure like the Washington Monument. The Greek word for tower in that passage is purgos (poor'-gos) which is an ambiguous word that can mean not only an isolated structure like a skyscraper; but also a special battlement which protrudes from the face of a castle's curtain wall— consisting of crenellations, merlons, and machicolations —providing occupants a tactical advantage for observing and defending the curtain wall's exterior face. Sometimes though, towers were simply architectural facades that made otherwise insipid stone walls aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

Unfortunately, in the days prior to steel reinforcing bar, structural steel beams, and modern concrete; towers (which were often constructed of either stones or bricks) weren't all that stable, and sometimes crumbled; thus detaching themselves from the curtain wall like an old swallow's nest; resulting in pieces raining down on whoever happened to be standing below. The tower of Lk 13:4-5 was very likely a decorative part of an architectural enclosure surrounding the pool of Siloam (John 9:7).

The people who were killed when that tower collapsed, weren't killed by the hand of God. No, they were just simply in the wrong place at the wrong time; viz: it was just dumb luck. It's like when people plan all month for a camping trip in the mountains. Upon arrival, they set up camp; and after lunch, walk a hiking trail. Just then, a tree limb, that's been silently growing in the forest for who knows how many years, suddenly decides to break off and fall to earth right then; subsequently killing one of the campers just as they walk under it. One minute earlier and it would have missed. One minute later and it would have missed. But no, the limb falls right on cue as if the forces of nature conspired to hold that tree limb in place till just the right moment; waiting for that one specific person to walk under it.

On Tuesday, July 3, 2007; nineteen year-old Ramiro Gonzalez was returning home to Nyssa Oregon from a week-end honeymoon in northern California with his bride Idalia asleep in the back seat when their 1997 Pontiac Grand Am hit a cow twenty miles east of Burns. The Pontiac went off the road, through a fence, and burst into flames. Idalia escaped with only minor injuries, but Ramiro died at the Ste. Charles Medical Center in Bend the very next day.

Ramiro and his bride didn't get to live in a home of their own for even one single minute of their marriage— never had a baby, never joined the PTA, never saved for college, never went to ballet lessons, nor to soccer or little league, never went on family picnics, never took home movies and photos at Christmas, Easter, or birthdays, never went to the beach and built sand castles —no, their entire future, and all their dreams of family life, were shattered in an instant by a lousy cow; and Ramiro wasn't even 20 years old yet.

March 20, 2008; fifty-seven year old Judy Kay Zagorski, of Pigeon, Michigan, was sitting in the front seat of her father's boat going 25 knots on the Atlantic Ocean side of Vaca Key in Florida, when a Spotted Eagle Ray, with a wingspan of 5 to 6 feet; leaped up out of the water— for who knows what reason —and collided with Zagorski, knocking her backwards onto the deck of the boat. She died from the impact. Judy's sister, standing next to her, was not injured.

On a November morning in 1998, Alan Pakula climbed into his Volvo station wagon and began the 100-mile drive from Manhattan to his Long Island house. The acclaimed movie director of Sophie's Choice, All The President's Men, and The Pelican Brief, had made that trip countless times with no incident.

As the 70 year-old Pakula neared exit 49 on the Long Island Expressway just before noon, the tires of a vehicle ahead of him flipped a 7-foot piece of steel rod into the air. Within seconds, the rod shot through Pakula's windshield, smashing into his forehead, killing him almost instantly.

Death often comes when people least expect it. As a rule, they don't usually get up in the morning planning it to be their last day on earth. The 169,752 killed, and 127,294 listed as missing, in more than eleven countries by the tsunami of 2004, were taken by surprise, and given no warning it was to be their last day on earth.

The 2,829 people who perished in a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, and the 189 who died in the Pentagon, didn't go in to work expecting their lives to end before lunch that day. No, people's lives often end while they still have obligations and commitments, things to do, places to go, and people to see; when a car accident, train wreck, act of nature, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

December 8, 2004, one of my favorite metal guitar gods, Darrell "Dimebag" Abbott, that axe-shredding cowboy from the infernal regions, was murdered onstage by a deranged fan upset about Pantera's break-up. Darrell got up that day thinking only of the gig he would perform at the Alrosa Village in Columbus Ohio with his new group Damageplan; with no clue it was to be his last day on earth. The Dime was only a measly 38 years old. He could have lived another forty more.

Freak accidents like that can happen to anybody in the form of a stray bullet from a drive-by, lightening strike, gas explosion, choking on a piece of meat, electrocution, earthquake, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath tub; stones dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue surprises. I don't think Jesus is saying that repentance will protect people from dying in a freak accident, but rather, that if they don't repent now, while they have the chance; then they risk being caught off guard by sudden death in a freak accident where there will be no time to repent; and they'll find themselves in Hell a lot quicker than they ever expected.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Webers_Home]

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I just wish there were tour buses to the Bible's hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also Hell's impact upon the human mind.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies— there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, howls, and gnashing teeth. Conditions are really bad, and no one has a good attitude about it; and in that kind of environment, it's reasonable to expect quarrels, and ugly words exchanged between people. (Is there really any good reason to respect your fellow man's civil liberties in the Bible's hell; or to be courteous, kind, forgiving, tolerant, and patient?) Everyone is sad, blue, and lonely; and after a few years of the conditions I've been describing, I should think most folks break, and go mad from the stress.

Time stands still in the Bible's hell: it's for the now; it's a static existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in stir like convicts serving a sentence in San Quentin expecting to get out some day; nor is Hell a tour of duty like a year in Viet Nam. No, people in the Bible's hell are its perpetual residents.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. Or a hungry libido with no way to satisfy it. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor gobble barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more world series, no more super bowls, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al. Possibly the one sport that will be permitted in Hell is swimming (Rev 20:15)

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitters, no texting, no FaceBook, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.

No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of Hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in Hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Dark_Lite]

Now I understand. Never again will I see a penguin in a zoo if I go to hell.

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: Never again will I see a penguin in a zoo if I go to hell.

You won't even see a zoo, let alone a penguin.

There is, however, a creature that you will see. It's a special worm that thrives in very high temperatures.

Jesus spoke about some mysterious worms that inhabit geena (Mrk 9:43-48). The New Testament Greek word for worms is skolex (sko'-lakes) which identifies grubs, maggots, and/or earth-worms. The worms, of course, are implied to feed upon the damned just as normal worms in life thrive on an open corpse. A worm that thrives in flaming liquids is pretty amazing, but not totally unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° F,which is hot enough to sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.

Acts 12:21-23 records a Herod's death by skolex of the infectious parasitic type. The biblical record goes right to the bottom line without any details, but according to an article I read in a back issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Herod didn't die immediately as the Biblical narrative seems to suggest, but rather, suffered with the malady quite a while. The worms were located mostly in his private parts (which may have included the prostate) and were so painful at times that he couldn't even walk or conduct state business.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Dark_Lite]

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You won't even see a zoo, let alone a penguin.

C.L.I.F.F.
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What about hellish demonic penguins?

 

[Webers_Home]

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Creeping up the blind side, shinning up the wall,
stealing through the dark of night.
Climbing through a window, stepping to the floor
checking to the left and the right.
Picking up the pieces, putting them away;
something doesn't feel quite right.

Help me someone, let me out of here.
Then out of the dark was suddenly heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Coming out the woodwork, through the open door,
pushing from above and below.
Shadows with no substance, in the shape of men;
round and down and sideways they go.
Adrift without direction, eyes that hold despair
then as one they sigh and they moan:

Help us someone, let us out of here.
Living here so long undisturbed,
dreaming of the time we were free
so many years ago before the time when we first heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Sit down . . Sit down
As we relive our lives in what we tell you

Images of sorrow, pictures of delight
things that go to make up a life.
Endless days of summer, longer nights of gloom
waiting for the morning light.
Scenes of unimportance, photos in a frame
things that go to make up a life.

Sit down . . Sit down
Cause you won't get away,
no with us you will stay
for the rest of your days.
So sit down as we relive our lives in what we tell you.
Let us relive our lives in what we tell you.

Home By The Sea
Genesis, ©1983
Phil Collins, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford

The lyrics of that song are so sad because it depicts the boredom of the netherworld, where the only thing people have to do down there to pass the time is tell each other about their lives on earth. There is, of course, nothing to tell about their lives in Hell.

†. Ecc 9:10 . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the netherworld; where you are going.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Webers_Home]

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†. Ecc 12:1 . . So appreciate your vigor in the days of your youth, before those days of sorrow come and those years arrive of which you will say, “I have no pleasure in them”

Most people cope pretty well with middle age, and old age too, as long as their mind is sound and they have the right attitude. But nobody does good with advanced age. Your bowels won't work right, you'll be incontinent and smell bad; diverticulitis causes blood in your stools, your skin will be thin and easily torn, blue veins pop out on your legs and on the backs of your hands, you won't see things unless they're right under your nose, your sense of smell will be weak right along with your sense of taste. Savory foods will taste like cardboard and your stomach can't deal with them anyway. No more hiking, no more bicycle rides, no more airplane trips, no more travel at all. Walking, if you're able to walk at all, will really be little more than a shuffle of slow, flat footed, jerky short steps rather than a brisk fluid stroll.

†. Ecc 12:2 . . before sun and light and moon and stars grow dark, and the clouds come back again after the rain:

Often, as people get older and their health begins to fail, friends will ask: "Hey, how's ol' so and so doing?" And someone will say: "Oh, he has good days and bad days." Well, eventually ol' so and so will have only bad days and no good days ever again.

†. Ecc 12:3a . . When the guards of the house become shaky,

The Hebrew word for guards is shamar (shaw-mar'), the word used of Adam when God tasked him with taking care of the garden in Gen 2:15; and here in Ecclesiastes it refers to the use of your hands in homemaking and gardening. Aged people's hands tremble. They can't hold anything steady. In fact, they have so little strength and dexterity left in their hands that they can't grasp anything securely; so they drop stuff a lot.

†. Ecc 12:3b . . And the men of valor are bent,

Those in advanced age, even if they were once proud Olympic athletes can't stand up straight anymore. Older people get bent and hunched. They shrink too, and some practically curl over like a fish hook.

My mother-in-law really loved birds. But her back was so bent over that she couldn't look up to see them, and unless they were only a few yards away, she couldn't even lift her head high enough to see the ones down low on the ground. I could've gotten her the finest Leica optics money can buy, but it would just be throwing money out the window. She couldn't use them on a birding trip, nor could she even go on one. And if that weren't enough, she lost the use of one eye because of glaucoma.

†. Ecc 12:3c . . the grinding ones stand idle because they are few,

Before the advent of dentures and professional dental care, people commonly lost their teeth from decay and gum disease. As they got older, people lost more and more teeth until the day came when there finally weren't enough teeth left in their mouth to bite off food and chew it. Foods like grains, meats, and many crispy fresh fruits and vegetables were simply out of the question; so they had to eat mushy foods, foods that were overcooked; or that didn't require a lot of biting and chewing. There's still a lot of that in third world countries.

†. Ecc 12:3d . . And the ladies that peer through the windows grow dim,

In projects and city apartments, women often wave to each other out their kitchen windows and share gossip, and chat. Well, the aged women can't see well enough to recognize their neighbors anymore and so their social life suffers. To make things only worse; younger people are impatient with aged folks and tend to treat them like children; and tune them out.

†. Ecc 12:4a . . And the doors to the street are shut

The doors are shut because aged people get chilled easily. Riding on a city transit bus once, in the dead of summer, some senior citizens in front of me shut my window because the draft was making them cold even though the rest of us were broiling in the heat.

†. Ecc 12:4b . . with the noise of the hand mill growing fainter, and the song of the bird growing feebler, and all the strains of music dying down;

I've already lost some of my hearing in the higher and lower ranges. It's natural and to be expected, even at my age; which, to date, is only 65. Hearing aids help a lot so we don't have to yell so loud at aged folks in order for them to hear us. Just imagine not being able to enjoy your favorite music; or straining to hear ordinary conversation.

†. Ecc 12:5a . . When one is afraid of heights

We can fall aplenty when we're young and get away with it. Our joints are tight and strong, our ligaments are taught and springy, our bones are solid and tough, and we can handle all the bumps and bruises life throws at us. But not so when we reach advanced age. Falls, even little ones, are extremely hazardous. Every now and then the news runs a story of an aged person who stumbled and fell at home and couldn't even reach the telephone to call for help; sometimes laying there for days until the landlord or relatives checked in on them. I knew an aged lady who's broken hip actually caused her death. Her body was so weak already from fighting cancer that the broken hip put it over the edge.

†. Ecc 12:5b . . And there is terror on the road.

Aged people are too weak and feeble to defend themselves. I'll never forget my dad, in the last days of his bout with cancer, saying to me; "Clifford, I guess I never will be any good any more. If one of these men here in the restaurant should jump me, I would just have to take it because I couldn't do anything about it."

My dad was once a tough, husky ex Navy farm boy who took lip from nobody. But in his last days, he was not like that at all. He lived in fear of muggings and assaults because those who prey on aged people (including roving packs of dangerous adolescents) would have no problem overpowering him at all.

†. Ecc 12:5c . . For the almond tree may blossom, the grasshopper be [gravid], and the caper bush may bud again; but man sets out for his eternal abode, with mourners all around in the street.

Nature isn't dismayed by the passing of a human being. Flowers continue to bloom, bugs continue to multiply, and fruit continues to appear on vines, bushes, and trees. When people drop dead, the world doesn't drop dead with them. Trees and flowers go right on budding and blooming, fish go on swimming, birds go on flying, bugs go on buzzing, the Earth goes right on turning, and the Moon goes right on shining as usual just like nothing ever happened. The world was doing just fine before any one of us came along, and it will go on doing just fine after we're all gone.

†. Ecc 12:6 . . Before the silver cord snaps and the golden bowl crashes, the jar is shattered at the spring, and the jug is smashed at the cistern.

People with money, like king Solomon, had fancy lighting in their homes. Chandeliers made of ornate bowls overlaid with gold, containing oil or candles, were suspended from the ceiling by metal contraptions made of silver. Ancient bowls, and jars, and jugs were fragile. Once broken, they weren't repaired, but discarded and replaced with a new unit. Man is like that— just an expendable carbon unit; and death destroys him beyond repair.

†. Ecc 12:7a . . And the dust returns to the ground as it was,

†. Gen 3:18-19 . .You will return to the ground from which you came. For you were made from dust, and to the dust you will return.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Webers_Home]

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FAQ: Why dwell so much on Hell? Wasn't Jesus' message primarily about worship and love?

A fiery netherworld is just as much a part of Jesus' message as loaves and fishes, walking on water, and curing leprosy and the blind. Without a Hell, the Gospel would be rendered quite innocuous; and possibly even superfluous.

The Greek word in the New Testament that specifically identifies a zone of flame in the netherworld is geena (gheh'-en-nah); which was a valley near Jerusalem that apparently once served as the ancient city's landfill, where fires were kept burning day and night doing the double duty of incinerating a constant waste stream of urban refuse and the corpses of dead animals and low income citizens. In a place like that, it's reasonable to expect the presence of vermin.

Geena is spoken of twelve times in the New Testament— eleven by the gentle Jesus, and once by James. In all twelve instances; geena is associated with fire. I believe it's geena to which Jesus referred when he spoke of a fire that shall never be quenched (Mrk 9:43-48). Paul too, spoke of a punitive fire that's everlasting (2Thes 1:7-10). The ultimate geena is of course the reservoir of liquid flame spoken of in Rev 20:11-15.

The Lord's geena is not a pretty picture. One only had to look at Jerusalem's dump site back in Jesus' day to obtain a graphic picture of possible conditions to expect; what with all the fire, the rubbish, the garbage, the smoke, the smell, the discards, the vermin, and the decomposing bodies and carcasses.

I'm not saying all of the conditions in Jerusalem's dump will be present in The Lord's; I'm only saying that conditions in Jerusalem's ancient refuse disposal area strongly suggest that The Lord's dump is very unpleasant in many similar respects.

Christian and non Christian alike often bleat that the Bible's God is love, love, love. But even the God of love has a dump, and a portion of has been set aside to dispose of the remains of human beings rather than just trash and garbage.

An interesting concept to associate with The Lord's dump site is the necessity of sanitary disposal; which is really what landfills and dumps are designed to accomplish in order to prevent the spread of disease; which suggests that people in The Lord's dump are both toxic and infectious.

†. Mtt 9:12 . .They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

When The Lord returns, the first order of business is a thorough Spring cleaning followed by a trip to the dump.

†. Mtt 13:41-42 . . I, the Son of man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my kingdom everything that's offensive, and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

†. Mal 4:1 . . For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, testifies Yhvh of Legions, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Tavita]

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FAQ: Why dwell so much on Hell? Wasn't Jesus' message primarily about worship and love?

A fiery netherworld is just as much a part of Jesus' message as loaves and fishes, walking on water, and curing leprosy and the blind. Without a Hell, the Gospel would be rendered quite innocuous; and possibly even superfluous.

The Greek word in the New Testament that specifically identifies a zone of flame in the netherworld is geena (gheh'-en-nah); which was a valley near Jerusalem that apparently once served as the ancient city's landfill, where fires were kept burning day and night doing the double duty of incinerating a constant waste stream of urban refuse and the corpses of dead animals and low income citizens. In a place like that, it's reasonable to expect the presence of vermin.

Geena is spoken of twelve times in the New Testament— eleven by the gentle Jesus, and once by James. In all twelve instances; geena is associated with fire. I believe it's geena to which Jesus referred when he spoke of a fire that shall never be quenched (Mrk 9:43-48). Paul too, spoke of a punitive fire that's everlasting (2Thes 1:7-10). The ultimate geena is of course the reservoir of liquid flame spoken of in Rev 20:11-15.

The Lord's geena is not a pretty picture. One only had to look at Jerusalem's dump site back in Jesus' day to obtain a graphic picture of possible conditions to expect; what with all the fire, the rubbish, the garbage, the smoke, the smell, the discards, the vermin, and the decomposing bodies and carcasses.

I'm not saying all of the conditions in Jerusalem's dump will be present in The Lord's; I'm only saying that conditions in Jerusalem's ancient refuse disposal area strongly suggest that The Lord's dump is very unpleasant in many similar respects.

Christian and non Christian alike often bleat that the Bible's God is love, love, love. But even the God of love has a dump, and a portion of has been set aside to dispose of the remains of human beings rather than just trash and garbage.

An interesting concept to associate with The Lord's dump site is the necessity of sanitary disposal; which is really what landfills and dumps are designed to accomplish in order to prevent the spread of disease; which suggests that people in The Lord's dump are both toxic and infectious.

†. Mtt 9:12 . .They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

When The Lord returns, the first order of business is a thorough Spring cleaning followed by a trip to the dump.

†. Mtt 13:41-42 . . I, the Son of man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my kingdom everything that's offensive, and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

†. Mal 4:1 . . For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, testifies Yhvh of Legions, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

C.L.I.F.F.
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The Lord has come back (though He will return at the end of the age) and dwells within His people.

Jesus is referring to our wicked flesh that must die... and He will do that by destroying it. He does not destroy the person themselves. He destroys everything in me that is not of Him... when I walk in the flesh and suffer the consequences of my actions then I am thrown into outer darkness. Mankind is already weeping and there is already gnashing of teeth. He will root up and destroy His enemies... the world, the flesh and the devil. Mankind He will save.

The Gehenna is not the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death and at the end of the ages Jesus will abolish all death. Gehenna does not refer to the LOF... He was referring to the end of that age... the age of the Law of Moses. It did not go on and on endlessly. It has stopped burning and is a beautiful parkland now. Sodom and Gomorrah is not burning endlessly, in fact Sodom and Gomorrah will be reestablished before the Lord. As ALL will be cleansed and pruned of the flesh will be...

 

[Webers_Home]

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The second death of Rev 21:8 is much worse than the first in that the second is a perpetual death rather than an instant death.

†. Mtt 10:28 . . And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

One of Webster's definitions of destroy is: to ruin the structure, the organic existence, or the condition of; also: to ruin as if by tearing to shreds

The New Testament Greek word for destroy in Mtt 10:28 is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); which means: to destroy fully.

Anti-Hell people would like nothing better than to restrict apollumi's meaning to rendering something non existent. However, apollumi is an ambiguous word that can be taken more than one way. Primarily, apollumi doesn't mean to render something non existent; no, it mostly means to wreck something beyond repair; viz: to total it out, to wreck it; viz: to render it either unrecognizable and/or unsuitable for its intended purpose; e.g. the World Trade Center.

The twin towers were destroyed, yes, but the materials that constructed them didn't go out of existence, no, they were all still right there at ground zero after the dust settled— all the concrete, all the glass, all the plastics, and all the metals. But instead of being neatly assembled in the shape of fully-functioning buildings, the materials were converted into a pile of rubble.

That's the interpretation of apollumi that pro-Hell people prefer; because a destruction of that nature leaves the damned disabled, but doesn't remove them from existence; rather, it leaves them permanently disfigured.

During Jesus' ordeal, his face was so badly destroyed that it was difficult to tell it was even a man's.

†. Isa 52:14-15 . . Many were amazed when they saw him— beaten and bloodied; so disfigured one would scarcely know he was human.

If God would permit the world to inflict that degree of physical injury upon His own kin for their own sake; then just think what He himself will inflict upon those of the world who fail to appreciate it.

†. Heb 10:29-31 . .Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and unholy. Such people have insulted and enraged the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to his people. . For we know the one who said; I will take vengeance. I will repay those who deserve it . . It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The reality of perpetual death is just simple mathematics.

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23) The problem with that is; human beings have only one life with which to pay for their sins, and that one life is already ear-marked for Adam's sin. So then, they have nothing left with which to pay for one of their own sins.

The problem is compounded even further for serial sinners. When the Dead are resurrected to stand trial at the Great White Throne of Rev 20:11-15, they will be standing there with but one life with which to pay their debts to God. So then, they have only just enough means to pay for one of the many sins they committed in life. Ergo: in order to redeem the balance, The Lord has no choice but to incarcerate them in a perpetual, never-ending debtor's prison: the reservoir of flaming liquid.

†. Matt 5:25-26 . . Come to terms quickly with your accuser before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in prison. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Unfortunately, the only medium of exchange that God will accept in lieu of one's own death for their many sins is Christ's blood. (1Pet 1:18-19). So then, serial sinners won't get out of the reservoir of flaming liquid any sooner than the Devil.

†. Rev 20:10 . . And the Devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[Tavita]

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The second death of Rev 21:8 is much worse than the first in that the second is a perpetual death rather than an instant death.
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1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (death is death, whether it's the first, second, third, etc)

Abolished
G2673
καταργέω
katargeō
kat-arg-eh'-o
From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is not the full revelation of the end, the full revelation was given to the Apostle Paul, and he gives it in 1 Corinthians 15.

There is NO state of perpetual death.

 

[Webers_Home]

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RE: 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

In context, the abolishment of death only pertains to people who are in possession of immortality.

†. 1Cor 15:50-57 . . I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

. . When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory. Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul's statement was addressed to his "brothers" viz: his fellow believers. And the pronouns "we" and "us" do not pertain to the lost; no; the lost will continue to abide in perpetual death in the reservoir of flaming liquid.

†. Matt 5:25-26 . . Come to terms quickly with your accuser before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in prison. I assure you that you won't be freed until you have paid the last penny.

Since The Lord's blood is the only medium of exchange that Jesus' Father will accept for paying sinners' debts to God; then the lost will never be released from the lake of flaming liquid portrayed in Rev 20:11-15. Ergo: it's essential that sinners avail themselves of Jesus' blood in this life before they die in their sins and cross over to the other side.

†. Heb 3:7-8 . .So, as the Holy Spirit says: Today, if you hear His voice, do not stiffen your resolve.

†. Heb 3:16-19 . . Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

As bad as perpetual death in a flaming substance is all by itself, the Dead's miseries will be aggravated even further by an infection of the mysterious worms about which Jesus spoke in Mrk 9:43-48.

The New Testament Greek word for worms is skolex (sko'-lakes) which identifies grubs, maggots, and/or earth-worms. The worms, of course, are implied to feed upon the damned just as normal worms in life thrive on an open corpse. A worm that thrives in flaming liquids is pretty amazing, but not totally unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° F, which is hot enough to sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.

Acts 12:21-23 records a Herod's death by skolex of the infectious parasitic type. The biblical record goes right to the bottom line without any details, but according to an article I read in a back issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Herod didn't die immediately as the Biblical narrative seems to suggest, but rather, suffered with the malady quite a while. The worms were located mostly in his private parts (which may have included the prostate) and were so painful at times that he couldn't even walk or conduct state business.

The things I've been posting in this topic are too horrible for words; and it is just too unthinkable that our friends, our relatives, our co-workers, our families, and our loved ones are in grave danger of meeting the fate about which I write. Every cuddly little newborn baby that comes into this world will one day be an adult looking into the maw of an unspeakable abyss. The cross isn't optional; no, it's urgent.

†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold; the day of The Lord is coming— a cruel day, with an outburst of passion, and fierce anger

The Bible's God has been holding His feelings in for a long, long time; but the day is coming when He's finally going to crack. God pity the poor souls on the receiving end of that flood.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[Tavita]

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RE: 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

In context, the abolishment of death only pertains to people who are in possession of immortality.


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I disagree. I think that is just reading into it what you want it to believe. The whole of scripture points to all being saved. From Genesis to Rev.

Can you point out where God said, in the beginning, what the punishment for sin is? And what did Jesus pay the price for?... the wages of sin which is - physical death. That's it, no endless torment mentioned anywhere. Many of the Greek words for eternal, forever, and ever, punishment, etc... do not mean what you've been taught in orthodox christianity. Study them out for yourself.

Take the parable of the lost sheep, Jesus said He will leave the 99 to find the one which is 'lost' and will not return until He finds it. How many of mankind are 'lost'? When I was in the Institutional church I was told that this passage was only for those who are saved and then backslide. After personal study I find no such thing.

I also find that orthodox christianity is very carnal and does not relate the scriptures spiritually. Jesus said His words are SPIRIT and are life. Heaven is not a place 'up there', hell is not a place 'down there', the Lake of Fire is not a 'place'. Revelation is a book of symbols and is meant for you 'personally'... it pertains to what is going on inside of you... not.. 'out there'. It's the revelation of Jesus Christ to YOU.

Another question.... where do the scriptures say that you only have this lifetime to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[Webers_Home]

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†. Isa 14:12-17 . . For you said to yourself; I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north. I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High.

. . But instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead, down to its lowest depths. Everyone there will stare at you and ask; Can this be the one who shook the earth and the kingdoms of the world? Is this the one who destroyed the land and made it into a wilderness? Is this the king who demolished the world's greatest cities and had no mercy on his captives?

That passage targeted an ancient Babylonian king, but serves to illustrate an important point: there is no ranking in Hell. Look around you at the celebrities, the socialites, the news anchors, the politicians, the stock brokers, the Donald Trumps, the empire builders, the financial giants, the television moguls, the civic leaders, the fashion leaders, the Lewis & Clarks, the Charles Linberghs, the shuttle astronauts, the Hillary Clintons, the Barak Obamas, the Regis Philbins, the Oprah Winfrys, Congress, the Supreme Court, the winners of Dancing With The Stars, Oscar and Tony and Grammy awards. In the Bible's hell, those kinds of people count as less than nobody.

†. Luke 16:19-23 . . There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In the netherworld, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Can you just imagine that rich man's chagrin to see that homeless bum, who at one time dumpster-dived his own garbage, now in comfort while he himself was tormented? Isn't it interesting that the bum's name is given, but the rich man's isn't. You know why? Because he's now a forgotten man who no longer matters.

†. Ps 73:2-17 . . I came so close to the edge! My feet were slipping, and I was almost gone. For I envied the proud when I saw them prosper despite their wickedness. They seem to live such a painless life; their bodies are so healthy and strong. They aren't troubled like other people or plagued with problems like everyone else. They wear arrogance like a jeweled necklace, and their clothing is woven of cruelty.

. . These fat cats have everything their hearts could ever wish for! They scoff and speak only evil; in their pride they seek to crush others. They boast against the very heavens, and their words strut throughout the earth . .Look at these arrogant people— enjoying a life of ease while their riches multiply . .Then one day I went into your sanctuary, O God; and I understood their destiny.

But what about Christians? Are they in any danger of going to the Bible's hell? Yes, according to Jesus' testimony at Mtt 7:22-23, numbers of not only ordinary rank and file pew-warming Christians go to Hell, but also the cream of the crop: the outstanding Christians— the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, and their dedication. It is to many of them that Jesus will say; "I never knew you."

Numbers of works-oriented Christians especially, who failed to work out their own salvation as per their understanding of Php 2:12, will join unbelievers in the Bible's hell and be no better off than their non Christian rivals who never went to church even one time in their entire lives. All that time and energy spent defending "the faith" will have been nothing in the world but a way to fritter away the time. And just think of the humiliation they will endure in Hell when the unbelievers single them out for taunting and cruel mockery. Yes, for some; the Bible's hell is sweet. It's the ultimate equalizer: the best revenge.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[Webers_Home]

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There's actually two Hells in the Bible; one is not yet open for business. The one that's open is in a netherworld location known in Greek mythology as haides, which is just a temporary holding tank that at one time warehoused both the good and the bad (Lk 16:19-31). Quite a few Bible scholars are pretty sure that the comfort zone of haides is no longer in use since Jesus' resurrection.

The really bad Hell is geena. Of the twelve times that word is used for fiery torment in the New Testament, the "gentle" Jesus threatened people with it eleven. Geena is the ultimate destination of all the damned, and even haides itself is going to be discarded there (Rev 20:11-15).

Geena is the last word in criminal justice. But before people are sent there, they must first stand trial at the Great White Throne of Rev 20:11-15; and it is going to be a spectacle of horror beyond words.

In my opinion, it's a fool who would take their chances in court with the Bible's God. The process is very thorough; with no plea bargaining nor leniency for first time offenders; no mitigating circumstances; no time off for good behavior nor possibility of parole— the scales of justice have to balance: eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone, skin for skin, injustice for injustice, abuse for abuse, burning for burning, bruise for bruise, dollar for dollar, curse for curse, etc: even every idle word that men speak, will be weighed in the balances; not just their serious words.

†. Mtt 12:36-37 . . But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every thoughtless word they have spoken. If you cannot be adjudged innocent by your words, then by your words you will be condemned.

People will also be answering for all the things they did in private when they thought no one was looking.

†. Heb 4:12-13 . . For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Every transgression will receive a fair and equitable amount of retribution.

†. Heb 2:1-3 . .We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation?

Let me give you a rough idea of just how bad it's really going to be.

Supposing the penalty for a lie is 5 lashes and the accused has 200 counts of lying against them. That means that each count will receive 5 lashes, adding up to 1,000 lashes for those 200 lies. But that's only the beginning.

Suppose the penalty for using God's name in profanity is 30 lashes, and that same offender's lifetime accumulation is 500 counts of blasphemy; which isn't an unreasonable number of counts for someone who lived to be sixty or seventy. They would be given 30 lashes for each of those 500 counts; adding up to 15,000 lashes on top of the 1,000 they already received for 200 lies.

But then supposing the penalty for defamation of character is 15 lashes and that same offender, over the years— via gossip, demeaning comments, arbitrary accusations, rumor mongering, kangaroo-court convictions, and thoughtless remarks —impugned innocent reputations a total of 85 times. They would receive 15 lashes for each count, adding up to a total of 1,275 lashes. So then, for just those three crimes alone, that one offender would be given a grand total of 17,275 lashes.

It gets worse. Offenders who knew at the time that what they were doing was wrong, will be punished much more severely than those who did so uninformed.

†. Luke 12:47-48 . .And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

In reality then, long life can be a curse rather than a blessing, and for some people, it would have been far better if they had died as a child than to face God as a senior citizen. By the time the condemned are carried out of the Bible God's courtroom to be discarded still alive into the reservoir of flaming liquid spoken of in Rev 20:11-15, they will look as though they were dragged through a field of razor concertina wire and then dropped into a cotton gin.

It's very likely that many will not only have their flesh flayed open; but suffer a number of broken bones as well; because for some offenses, it takes way more than a whipping to set things right. For example, lies generate repercussions, which will be taken into consideration during the punishment phase of the liar's trial; so that they will not only be punished for the act of telling lies, but also for the effects of those lies.

Same with defamation of character. One's reputation— their good name —once tarnished, effects their quality of life for years to come. That can't be ignored and swept under the rug.

And blaspheme too. Denigrating the Bible God's name in profanity has an influence upon those who hear it; perhaps even egging them on to take up the habit of blaspheme themselves when normally they wouldn't if left on their own. Many a parent is going to pay for teaching their own children how to cuss.

†. Isa 52:14 . . Many were amazed when they saw him— beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely tell he was human.

If the Bible's God would let people do that kind of damage to His own kin, what do you suppose He has in store for people in this day and age who mock His son and make remarks about him? Well . . that's not too hard to figure out is it? Fair's fair. At the very least, they will be beaten and bloodied beyond recognition, same as he was.

C.L.I.F.F.
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[GaryP]

Want to know were the eye of the needle is. You will see it 3 places in the N.T.
I like Mark 15:38. For 2000 years the Temple has been open. Light is on.
Everyone runs to the Tomb and Waits. I ran into the Temple. I am not Fool.
2nd Exodus. Jesus Parts the Temple Curtain. The Captives. Sadly the Captives.
Stand on the River Bank and Never Cross their personal Red Sea. guess who's Coming For them???

 

[Tavita]

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†. Isa 14:12-17 . . For you said to yourself; I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north. I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High.

. . But instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead, down to its lowest depths. Everyone there will stare at you and ask; Can this be the one who shook the earth and the kingdoms of the world? Is this the one who destroyed the land and made it into a wilderness? Is this the king who demolished the world's greatest cities and had no mercy on his captives?

That passage targeted an ancient Babylonian king, but serves to illustrate an important point: there is no ranking in Hell. Look around you at the celebrities, the socialites, the news anchors, the politicians, the stock brokers, the Donald Trumps, the empire builders, the financial giants, the television moguls, the civic leaders, the fashion leaders, the Lewis & Clarks, the Charles Linberghs, the shuttle astronauts, the Hillary Clintons, the Barak Obamas, the Regis Philbins, the Oprah Winfrys, Congress, the Supreme Court, the winners of Dancing With The Stars, Oscar and Tony and Grammy awards. In the Bible's hell, those kinds of people count as less than nobody.

This is all true. ALL go to the place of the dead.. sheol, hades, etc, and if Jesus Christ, as the Firstfruit, had not been raised from the dead, we would all stay there. Those kinds of people are not counted as less than nobody... God does not rejoice in the death of people. We are all His... In Him we live and move and have our being.. Paul on Mars Hill speaking to Greeks. Jesus came to show us that 'while we were YET sinners.. He died for us'. He has ALREADY redeemed all mankind, and as Clement of Rome said... He saves some now, and some later...

†. Luke 16:19-23 . . There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In the netherworld, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Can you just imagine that rich man's chagrin to see that homeless bum, who at one time dumpster-dived his own garbage, now in comfort while he himself was tormented? Isn't it interesting that the bum's name is given, but the rich man's isn't. You know why? Because he's now a forgotten man who no longer matters.

This is the church's misunderstood teaching on this PARABLE... given in a series of parables.. one after the other... this one is aimed at the Pharisee's. He is speaking to them of the handing over of the Kingdom to the Gentiles. The whole parable concerns the end of one age and the beginning of a new. Here is a great teaching on the real meaning of this passage... it has NOTHING to do with heaven and hell... btw.. the symbolic meaning of LAZARUS is the ELECT.

Abraham's Bosom:The Parable;The Rich Man; Lazarus;The Deaths of the Rich Man and Lazarus;Abraham's Bosom; Lazarus In Abraham's Bosom; The Rich Man In Torment; The Great Gulf

†. Ps 73:2-17 . . I came so close to the edge! My feet were slipping, and I was almost gone. For I envied the proud when I saw them prosper despite their wickedness. They seem to live such a painless life; their bodies are so healthy and strong. They aren't troubled like other people or plagued with problems like everyone else. They wear arrogance like a jeweled necklace, and their clothing is woven of cruelty.

. . These fat cats have everything their hearts could ever wish for! They scoff and speak only evil; in their pride they seek to crush others. They boast against the very heavens, and their words strut throughout the earth . .Look at these arrogant people— enjoying a life of ease while their riches multiply . .Then one day I went into your sanctuary, O God; and I understood their destiny.

This is true. But I also say that in my flesh I am just like them, I am no better. And it is the flesh that God deals with.

But what about Christians? Are they in any danger of going to the Bible's hell? Yes, according to Jesus' testimony at Mtt 7:22-23, numbers of not only ordinary rank and file pew-warming Christians go to Hell, but also the cream of the crop: the outstanding Christians— the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, and their dedication. It is to many of them that Jesus will say; "I never knew you."

Yes, christians are judged, we are judged now, they will be judged later. Does Jesus tell them to go away for all eternity in this passage? I often tell my children to go away from me as a form of punishment but that does not mean I do not love them and welcome them back after they have had their punishment. Hell, outer darkness, etc, is when we walk in the flesh. People all around us are living in hell right now. We too easily put God in a box and the things God does in a box, and think we have the right to judge what He will do.

Numbers of works-oriented Christians especially, who failed to work out their own salvation as per their understanding of Php 2:12, will join unbelievers in the Bible's hell and be no better off than their non Christian rivals who never went to church even one time in their entire lives. All that time and energy spent defending "the faith" will have been nothing in the world but a way to fritter away the time. And just think of the humiliation they will endure in Hell when the unbelievers single them out for taunting and cruel mockery. Yes, for some; the Bible's hell is sweet. It's the ultimate equalizer: the best revenge.

If you want to see the love of the Father look for Him in Jesus Christ. Did Jesus ever handle people like you have done above? Did He not say sinners were His people? Did He not love them?.. who did He revile and give His woes to the most?.. it was the religious of His day. The Pharisees. Be careful that you don't operate out of a pharisaical spirit with self righteousness and pride in thinking that it is ONLY christians who go to church and 'do' the right thing in other christians eyes that will be saved.

In fact, if you were listening to the Spirit He would be telling you to 'come out of her My people'... get out of the harlot church system. The religious church system is the harlot of Babylon depicted in Revelation. Get out of the false teaching of organized religion... and find LIFE, and right doctrine.

2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and ~ He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

If God is not counting men's sins against them... what gives us the right?

1Co 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
1Co 13:5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

Doesn't God ask us to be like Him?... do you think He seeks His own? Is provoked? Takes into account a wrong done against Him?

Read the whole of 1 Corinthians 13... THIS is the Father's heart.

Not the terrible pit or place called hell for man that never ends that man has made up and brought in by pagan influences.

Man's imaginations and thoughts are so evil and twisted and that is where the church's imaginations still are, when their thoughts should be brought into the captivity of the mind of Christ.

Seek the truth.