• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Hellfire in Eastern Orthodoxy

pico

Newbie
Sep 14, 2012
21
0
✟22,631.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Georgios Scholarios, Byzantine philosopher churchman and first Patriarch of Constantinople (= Gennadius II) after the Turkish conquest, criticized Origen for saying that "hellfire would not last forever" (quoted by Henry Chadwick, Early Christian Thought and the Classical Tradition, 2nd ed. 95).

Does Eastern Orthodoxy teach that those who do not end up in heaven go to a place of hellfire, and that this hellfire is without end? I often hear Greek Orthodox folk say other things.

Ευχαριστὠ!
 

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
9,113
3,425
Pennsylvania, USA
✟1,006,620.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
There are different teachings on what constitutes hell in Eastern Orthodoxy. The main one seems to be that all are in the presence of God & those who are saved experience divine light & those who are unsaved experience divine fire. Salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ is by faith & commitment to His commands (love God & neighbor) within the doctrines of the church. There is room to believe individuals outside the church can have some form of salvation based on virtuous conduct, the conscience etc. if not having truly heard the Gospel (Daniel 12:1-4, Psalm 15, Romans 2, John 5:22-29 etc.). While this is not often heard it is understood & stated by a major saint of the church:


"All, whether angels or men, who in everything have maintained a natural justice in their disposition, and have made themselves actively receptive to the inner principles of nature in a way that accords with the universal principle of well being, will participate totally in the divine life that irradiates them; for they have submitted their will to God's will. Those who in all thngs have failed to maintain a natural justice in their disposition, and have been actively disruptive of the inner principles of nature in a way that conflicts with the universal principle of well being, will lapse completely from divine life, in accordance with their dedication to what lacks being; for they have opposed their will to God's will. It is this that separates them from God, for the principle of well-being, vivified by good actions and illumined by divine life, is not operative in their will."

St. Maximos the Confessor, (580-662 AD) 4th c. of various texts #54, Philokalia vol. 2.

Philokalia vol.2 (faber & faber isbn # 0-571-15466-2) p. 249.
progress.gif
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,132
17,447
Florida panhandle, USA
✟939,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Georgios Scholarios, Byzantine philosopher churchman and first Patriarch of Constantinople (= Gennadius II) after the Turkish conquest, criticized Origen for saying that "hellfire would not last forever" (quoted by Henry Chadwick, Early Christian Thought and the Classical Tradition, 2nd ed. 95).

Does Eastern Orthodoxy teach that those who do not end up in heaven go to a place of hellfire, and that this hellfire is without end? I often hear Greek Orthodox folk say other things.

Ευχαριστὠ!

As far as I can tell, there are indeed different teachings - or perhaps it is not truly so much differences as it is that things are expressed in different ways.

The Orthodox also allow space for saying they do not fully know the answers to some questions and do not tend to create explanations for things that are not known, but simply leave space for people to follow their conscience in some things, or consider others to be mysteries.

That said, I do most often hear that all humans have souls that will consciously experience the afterlife. Because God is everywhere, all will experience His Presence in some measure. For those who are aligned with His will, have sought to know Him, etc., His Presence will be experienced as love. For those who oppose Him, who hate Him, etc., His Presence will be unbearable - He is said in Scripture to be "a consuming fire". It is possible and reasonable that the overwhelming love, holiness, purity that is the essence of God's being could certainly be searing to those who hate it.

(This part is just myself speaking: there are Scriptures that speak of outer darkness, etc. and it makes sense to me that if there is a center place where the faithful will be, those who experience God as fire would try to escape. Of course being unable, but perhaps they can move further away, and probably would. My point is just that those kinds of passages can be consistent with the teaching.)

There is the hope that in God's mercy, perhaps this experience of God over time can purify these souls somehow, and perhaps they will all one day be reconciled to Him. However, we do not have that promise. It may not be so. Perhaps they will twist further and further away from God and be fully polluted. There is no Orthodox teaching on this. But many pray for the salvation of all. We can hope.

This is not all I hear. Some Orthodox speak of a fiery pit. Many (maybe most?) do speak of the final judgement and the probable impossibility of change after that. Many also speak of the impossibility of change after death, which would mean all is determined forever when we die.

I think that can be taken together to say there is some freedom given for a variety of interpretations.

I do not say all of this with any authority. But I have spoken with a number of priests, monastics, and laity, as well as read a number of articles on canonical Orthodox websites, and read some of the writings of the saints on this topic. That is the best overview I can give, based on that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,654
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟119,577.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Does Eastern Orthodoxy teach that those who do not end up in heaven go to a place of hellfire, and that this hellfire is without end? I often hear Greek Orthodox folk say other things.

Hellfire is not exactly in accord with the spirit of the times. So in the East, as in the West, you can probably find Christians saying that hell doesn't exist, because of their own personal dislike for it.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,651
3,637
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟274,013.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hellfire is not exactly in accord with the spirit of the times. So in the East, as in the West, you can probably find Christians saying that hell doesn't exist, because of their own personal dislike for it.
No need to speak for what we Orthodox believe, as Lukaris, my Orthodox brother, has already answered above. You are incorrect.
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
9,113
3,425
Pennsylvania, USA
✟1,006,620.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
No need to speak for what we Orthodox believe, as Lukaris, my Orthodox brother, has already answered above. You are incorrect.

I think he means some people among all Christians in general Dorothea.God bless.
 
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,654
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟119,577.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
No need to speak for what we Orthodox believe, as Lukaris, my Orthodox brother, has already answered above. You are incorrect.

I am not trying to speak for all Orthodox. I am just expressing the high likelihood that some Orthodox have similar mental processes to some western Christians. People in the Orthodox Church do not belong to a different species from the rest of us.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,132
17,447
Florida panhandle, USA
✟939,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I am not trying to speak for all Orthodox. I am just expressing the high likelihood that some Orthodox have similar mental processes to some western Christians. People in the Orthodox Church do not belong to a different species from the rest of us.

Perhaps there has been some misunderstanding. I am not sure?

But the OP asked what the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches. And your answer did seem to imply that the answers received were the result of some Orthodox developing their own doctrines not in agreement with the Church based on what they find distasteful or not.

Perhaps that is not what you meant at all.

Regardless, the answers given are in line with the teaching of the Orthodox Church, which was what was requested.

I do find Calvinism as I understand it to be quite at odds with the Orthodox Church on some matters.
 
Upvote 0