Very Good! God chose Christians (those who of their own free will accepted the invitation), to be holy, blameless, adopted, and predestined.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
HELL
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God chooses which sinners He will save before they have done anything,
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Not "uncaused choice". Their will is 'free indeed', once regenerated, because it is freedom IN CHRIST, a redefining of their being—not of their independent ability to choose.
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They would not be receiving pure undeserved charity (Love) as charity so the transaction would not be completed.
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Cha-CHING! the buttons on the vending machinery of salvation would have been pressed, but, alas...these did not of humble purely free will, receive pure undeserved charity (Love) as charity...
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Nor did they ever have a way to get the drink from the machine. Not only is there no machine—they don't have the reach.
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Like in all the banquet parables everyone is invited, but some still refuse this huge, wonderful invitation.
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Yes, they do. But those who come also refuse, until he changes their hearts. There's nothing in them, of themselves, any better than in those who continue to refuse. Or are you saying that someone is better than someone else?
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bling said:
Like in all the banquet parables everyone is invited, but some still refuse this huge, wonderful invitation.
Like in all the banquet parables everyone is invited, but some still refuse this huge, wonderful invitation.
Let me ask it like this: What makes the difference as to why some do refuse and some do not refuse. And when you answer that, ask it again of THAT reason. Like a child, "but, WHY?" HOW is it, that one person chooses this way, and another chooses that? Mere chance?
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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That is not stated in the parables at all. Yes, some others do seem to refuse, but God does not kidnap them to His Banquet, it is always their free will choice.
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That would not be Loving on God's part and the "love" they did obtain would not be a Godly type Love, but a more robotic type love.
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It is God's desire to save all that are lost, but people do not like to accept pure undeserved charity from a sacrificial giver.
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No, it is the individual's miraculous God given, free will ability to choose(this means we are in the image of God), but do you believe God does not have the power to grant mature adults this ability?
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Hentenza said:
How about those that do not accept God’s love and do not love God in return? Do you think God should push His love on the ones that do not want it?
That whole interchange between you and @Hentenza depended on the notion that salvation (i.e. Godly type Love) is attained by those returning it, which is a bogus notion, not supported by scripture, unless assumed before reading scripture.
How about those that do not accept God’s love and do not love God in return? Do you think God should push His love on the ones that do not want it?
Consider then, the real possibility that that is the state in which we all live—none of us really want it (no matter how we feel)— and the difference is not that God forces anything on us, but changes us. —Not, presents us with choices according to our fallen state, but "raises us from death to life", by "installing" his Holy Spirit within us, through whom we are then endowed with that love, by utter Grace freely given to us, "freely" returned. (And no, by that use of "freely" I rather obviously don't mean to imply "of our own uncaused will".)
That whole interchange between you and @Hentenza depended on the notion that salvation (i.e. Godly type Love) is attained by those returning it, which is a bogus notion, not supported by scripture, unless assumed before reading scripture.
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