Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry.
In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
So the people on the right are the ones that God loves. Let's see about the people on the left.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
1st thing we need to understand is that the Lake of fire is a type of Hell prepared for the Devil and his angels so God did not prepare this for man. He never intended to punish man. That's why he is currently suffering with man trying to get people to repent. The issue is man is letting Satan have dominion over them and therefore man become evil just like the Devil.
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
The Lake of fire is an eternal place where we will not escape. Also since mankind is choosing the Devil as their father then God does not love everyone.
My question is that if the Lake of fire/ hell was prepared for the devil and his angels and people were never intended to go there, does God not see the beginning from the end? If he does then before he created the lake of fire/ hell he knew that man was going to end up there and he choose to go on with it anyways, then by default man was planned to be there.
God has both the power and Love to allow humans some limited miraculous free will choices, without taking anything away from God. Satan is not overruling God, but humans are not forced to Love God, but make the choice to accept or reject God's Love
Satan can't overrule the Holy Spirit Who resides in me. God didn't and doesn't force me to love Him. I choose to reject all future conversation with you.
God has both the power and Love to allow humans some limited miraculous free will choices, without taking anything away from God. Satan is not overruling God, but humans are not forced to Love God, but make the choice to accept or reject God's Love.
My question is that if the Lake of fire/ hell was prepared for the devil and his angels and people were never intended to go there, does God not see the beginning from the end? If he does then before he created the lake of fire/ hell he knew that man was going to end up there and he choose to go on with it anyways, then by default man was planned to be there.
There is something called choice. The Lake of fire was intended to punish the Devil and his angels as stated by the LORD. The LORD never said he didn't know man would go there he simple stated it's intended purpose was to punish Satan.
If Adam and Eve didn't sin against God we wouldn't be dying. Adam and Eve made the choice to die. They made the wrong choice and we see the result of that choice everyday. We bury our loved ones everyday and we got plenty of cemeteries filled with bodies.
The reason why man will end up in the lake of fire is because that is their choice. Any man or woman who ends up in the lake fire wanted to go there. It's all that simple. It is your right to choose between life and death.
Deuteronomy 30: 15, 19
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
God is telling you to choose, he is not going to make anyone do anything. Satan intentionally corrupted himself. So there is no salvation for him. Make the right choice and you won't have to deal with eternal punishment.
The Bible just tells us: "Whosoever" which means it is up to us, how we do this is by a miraculous power of a free will choice we have been given. What you are trying to ask is "how does it work", which is like asking "How did Christ walk on water?", since our miraculous power of free will is hidden in our minds.
The prodigal son had the free will choice to stay in the pigsty starving to death (getting what he fully deserved) or go to his father in hope of totally undeserved Love.
I fully agree with "Nothing comes from nothing", but we are not "nothing", since we are made in the image of God.
Satan can't overrule the Holy Spirit Who resides in me. God didn't and doesn't force me to love Him. I choose to reject all future conversation with you.
1 Thess. 5:
18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.
We can accomplish nothing for God apart from His choosing, His empowering, and according to His will. As hard as it is for us to understand and accept, it is clear that we are chosen by God. Jesus said so Himself: “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44a). That is putting it plainly, is it not? You cannot come to Jesus unless you are drawn by the Father. God has to initiate the activity.
chosenpeople.com
Satan can't overrule the Holy Spirit Who resides in me. God didn't and doesn't force me to love Him. I choose to reject all future conversation with you.
Satan can't overrule the Holy Spirit is correct but we can quench or ignore the Holy Spirit put of our own will, we are not robots.
You are also correct that God doesn't force anyone to love him, but we were created in such a way that when one sees God for who he is, as Love, Life and Light in whom there is no darkness, man will always love him we were created that way, like a fish was created to be in water.
The problem is most people have never experienced Gods Love, Life or light, they may have heard others talk or actions that are supposed to be true but are only mans ideas about God, or they have never truly heard the true gospel at all or were born into another religion.
I have friends that want nothing to do with the God that was displayed to them by people calling themselves Christian.
Few find the narrow way of life in this life, but in the next age once they are out of a mortal flesh body, they will see God/Jesus for who they are without the sickness of sin, and they all will bend the knee and confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord. Phil 2:10-11 every knee will bow and every tongue will gladly confess Jesus is Lord. the Greek word used for confess is exomologeo which means - to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservations. Its not a forced confession but a true change of heart, no different than what every believer has already done.
I asked you the question and not God. The answer that avoids making God look bad (arborary) is He has blessed everyone in your family equally, but some have refused to humbly accept His charity as charity, which might even include you. Have you accepted God’s charity as pure undeserved charity or do you feel your accepting pure undeserved charity as charity is not something you “need” to do?
We can accomplish nothing for God apart from His choosing, His empowering, and according to His will. As hard as it is for us to understand and accept, it is clear that we are chosen by God. Jesus said so Himself: “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44a). That is putting it plainly, is it not? You cannot come to Jesus unless you are drawn by the Father. God has to initiate the activity.
chosenpeople.com
Yes, but God is inviting everyone (this is like the master inviting everyone to the banquet and some refuse). Everyone who goes to the banquet was invited, but some do not go even though the invitation is a huge draw.
I am not Arminian, and yes it has been argued for centuries, but going back further it was not argued and it was agreed that people have to humbly accept the invitation, so in that way it is up to them.
Asking mere humans God's reasons for His actions is not what He teaches. Your interest is primarily attacking me. God's Word is more important than anything I say.
The Bible just tells us: "Whosoever" which means it is up to us, how we do this is by a miraculous power of a free will choice we have been given. What you are trying to ask is "how does it work", which is like asking "How did Christ walk on water?", since our miraculous power of free will is hidden in our minds.
The prodigal son had the free will choice to stay in the pigsty starving to death (getting what he fully deserved) or go to his father in hope of totally undeserved Love.
I fully agree with "Nothing comes from nothing", but we are not "nothing", since we are made in the image of God.
Whether we are nothing (to which I agree—we are not nothing) is irrelevant to your point. It does not make any choice we make uncaused. It only makes the choices willed. And the Bible is very specific about the slavery of the will to sin and the flesh, or to Christ. That we do choose, does not prove free will.
I quote you, adding the strike-through: "The prodigal son had the free will choice to stay in the pigsty starving to death (getting what he fully deserved) or go to his father in hope of totally undeserved Love." See? The sentence works just as well, without the words, "free will", in it.
That we do not understand why it seems free does not mean that it is free—i.e., uncaused. The Bible teaches actual, real choice, and the responsibility to choose right. It does not say that we do so uncaused. That we do so according to our will actually should show us that we do so according to our inclinations and desires and preferences. We always choose according to what we prefer at that instant of choice. That preference, and that choice, is the result of myriad causes.
And the fact that choice (or anything else, for that matter) is indeed real is only by God's establishing it. Thus, no matter your theology, if your theology admits that God is indeed omnipotent, self-existent, first causer, that choice is logically necessarily established by God.
But it doesn't say you can invalidate true faith God has generated within you. You can grow it, and you can stifle it, but it is not because of you that it exists.
Right and it is God's will for mature adult humans to have just limited free will to have the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective and become like God Himself (Love).
bling said: Right and it is God's will for mature adult humans to have just limited free will to have the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective and become like God Himself (Love).
Not to mention the self-contradictory nature of the concept, "limited free". Is it really free, in the usual sense—i.e. 'unencumbered' or 'without constraint'—in one who is only a creature? They only claim it because they think it releases God from blame for evil, and to give justification for God to hold people responsible for their own sin (as if he needs it).
