Resha Caner
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Generally, the New Atheists characterize, they do not analyze. The rigor and depth of a sustained argument would be welcomed. We could explore fundamental notions of justice and existential responsibility. But you can't coax it out of them when they're in high dudgeon. Someone says "crappy" and I'm supposed to take that seriously? Really?
Generally, the New Atheists characterize, they do not analyze. The rigor and depth of a sustained argument would be welcomed. We could explore fundamental notions of justice and existential responsibility. But you can't coax it out of them when they're in high dudgeon. Someone says "crappy" and I'm supposed to take that seriously? Really?
No, as in there are plenty of Christians that understand that the Bible does not teach "Hellfire" and everlasting torture.
Generally, the New Atheists characterize, they do not analyze. The rigor and depth of a sustained argument would be welcomed. We could explore fundamental notions of justice and existential responsibility. But you can't coax it out of them when they're in high dudgeon. Someone says "crappy" and I'm supposed to take that seriously? Really?
I'm sure this has been posted about a lot. I'm an agnostic, leaning towards atheist. But recently I realized how sick the concept of Hell actually is. I was raised a Christian. We are taught about it in Sunday school, and think almost nothing of it. We are desensitized to it.
Anyway, how do you guys get around the thought of your coworkers, friends, etc., burning in Hell for all eternity in endless agony?
Curious ... what tortures do you think are happening in hell?
Hell is a place people choose to be in.And what do you believe is on offer for unbelievers?
I sure wasn't about to call it 'morally perfect.' Do you agree with abysmul, that the Bible doesn't teach of an eternal punishment?
I do not think Hell exists.
Because of a seed C.S. Lewis planted I think the most reasonable interpretation of Scripture when it comes to any of the horrible aspects of Hell is not meant to be taken literally. By that I DO NOT mean not to be taken seriously by those who believe. Rather it is an attempt by mortal men to make clear how unbearable the pain of being forever separated from their God would be for a true believer and that to such believers any additional pain pale in comparison.
Now as to the tortures preached and taught there are many starting with fire and brimstone and ending with a frozen lake. And of course devils with pitchforks. Of course Devils as mainly providers of pain rather than the first to suffer it seems to run directly against a lot of Scripture. But fire and brimstone preachers have never let a minor detail like that even give them pause.
Below are the people who are going to hell.
Even they have a chance to repent, but chose not to.
Do you really want these people as your neighbors and co-workers?
REV 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood ... . 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Well, Jesus gave us a hint what hell is like.I do not think Hell exists.
Pain is a spiritual pain or reality of sins burning one's soul.Because of a seed C.S. Lewis planted I think the most reasonable interpretation of Scripture when it comes to any of the horrible aspects of Hell is not meant to be taken literally. By that I DO NOT mean not to be taken seriously by those who believe. Rather it is an attempt by mortal men to make clear how unbearable the pain of being forever separated from their God would be for a true believer and that to such believers any additional pain pale in comparison.
It makes for a great movie though.Now as to the tortures preached and taught there are many starting with fire and brimstone and ending with a frozen lake. And of course devils with pitchforks. Of course Devils as mainly providers of pain rather than the first to suffer it seems to run directly against a lot of Scripture. But fire and brimstone preachers have never let a minor detail like that even give them pause.
That text refers to the end times when everyone basically would be as bad as they get.Curiously that list seems to have far more in common with most Christians than it does with me or most atheists or agnostics. For I do not worship idols or demons. I practice no magic and unless one picks and chooses carefully am more sexually moral than many if not most most Christians.
Christians seem far more likely to start worshiping idols when if their God fails to save them than I.
But that is far from the full list that the fire and brimstone crowd would condemn. They would condemn me to Hell even if I, thinking him only a good man, died while trying to protect a returned Christ from some angry mob. The fire and brimstone crowd will condemn all who fail to join their club. In many cases excluding the vast majority of Christian denominations.
Two questions for Christians who don't believe in the traditional, literal hell (lake of fire).
Jesus describes in pretty vivid detail, a man who dies and goes to hell and is being tormented in flames. (Luke 16) How do you explain His words if there IS no hell? Jesus spoke in many parables, yes, but He never invented imaginary places, His parables always dealt with real life, possible situations.
Second, what do you believe happens to souls who reject God, after they die?
I'll add this (my belief) to your confusionFor those that subscribe to the premise that everything attributed to Jesus in the NT is historically accurate, I understand your point, but many don't believe all contributed to Jesus is reliable and that would include many Christian scholars and historians.
On this site alone, I have been told various opinions about judgment and hell from Christians:
-Hell is not a real place
-Hell is for those who are bad people and even if you are not a believer, if you are good you won't go to hell
-Hell is for all those who are not Christians, and it does not matter how good a life they lead, nor does it matter if the Christian lives a life that causes suffering to others, if they repent, they will be spared hell.
I'll add this (my belief) to your confusion
-Hell is for those who do not follow Jesus by actively being loving persons; those who live a life of love are the true "Christians". Those who do not live a life of love are lost, even if they claim to be "believers".
When I was Christian, I didn't think about it much until I read The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis. Then I favored that view of Hell. The idea is that people who are in Hell don't really realize it, because that's where they belong. They don't realize what they're missing. They have what they want, and they choose to stay. Those who don't belong there choose to leave.Anyway, how do you guys get around the thought of your coworkers, friends, etc., burning in Hell for all eternity in endless agony?
When I was Christian, I didn't think about it much until I read The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis. Then I favored that view of Hell. The idea is that people who are in Hell don't really realize it, because that's where they belong. They don't realize what they're missing. They have what they want, and they choose to stay. Those who don't belong there choose to leave.
I don't remember ever having the fire and brimstone stuff pushed on me, thank goodness.
Two questions for Christians who don't believe in the traditional, literal hell (lake of fire).
Jesus describes in pretty vivid detail, a man who dies and goes to hell and is being tormented in flames. (Luke 16) How do you explain His words if there IS no hell? Jesus spoke in many parables, yes, but He never invented imaginary places, His parables always dealt with real life, possible situations.
Second, what do you believe happens to souls who reject God, after they die?
For those that subscribe to the premise that everything attributed to Jesus in the NT is historically accurate, I understand your point, but many don't believe all contributed to Jesus is reliable and that would include many Christian scholars and historians.
On this site alone, I have been told various opinions about judgment and hell from Christians:
-Hell is not a real place
-Hell is for those who are bad people and even if you are not a believer, if you are good you won't go to hell
-Hell is for all those who are not Christians, and it does not matter how good a life they lead, nor does it matter if the Christian lives a life that causes suffering to others, if they repent, they will be spared hell.
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