Hell

[CherubRam]

Irrelevant! Non-Catholic, i.e. real, history shows the truth. The Bible was not canonized by the Catholic church because the canon of the NT was decided about 700-800 years before the Catholic church existed.

Do you have any scholarly source for that statement?

 

[Der Alte]

Do you have any scholarly source for that statement?

I have posted it several times but you have ignored it. Here are the posts you ignored. Do not demand from me what you cannot, will not do yourself.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7839524-12/#post66270305

http://www.christianforums.com/t7839524-12/#post66276067

http://www.christianforums.com/t7824928-27/#post65824506

http://www.christianforums.com/t7824928-65/#post65995263

http://www.christianforums.com/t7836030-7/#post66155400

 

[he-man]

Originally Posted by Der Alter

Irrelevant! Non-Catholic, i.e. real, history shows the truth. The Bible was not canonized by the Catholic church because the canon of the NT was decided about 700-800 years before the Catholic church existed.
​

Do you have any scholarly source for that statement?

I guess he never heard of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD or the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD?

The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D....

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:


Quote:
It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.

The list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.


In the first century Jerusalem there were at least four OT Canons in use by different Jewish Groups. There was the Canon of the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Ethiopian Jews and the Diaspora/Essene Jews. Jesus and the disciples used the Septuagint which was the Canon of the Diaspora/Essenes. We know this because it is quoted in the New Testament.

It is clear through biblical research, that the Septuagint is the Bible used by the first century Church and quoted in the NT Scriptures. In Christ
Fr. Joseph

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter
Irrelevant! Non-Catholic, i.e. real, history shows the truth. The Bible was not canonized by the Catholic church because the canon of the NT was decided about 700-800 years before the Catholic church existed.

I guess he never heard of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD or the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD?

The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D....

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

Quote:
It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.

The list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.

In the first century Jerusalem there were at least four OT Canons in use by different Jewish Groups. There was the Canon of the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Ethiopian Jews and the Diaspora/Essene Jews. Jesus and the disciples used the Septuagint which was the Canon of the Diaspora/Essenes. We know this because it is quoted in the New Testament.

It is clear through biblical research, that the Septuagint is the Bible used by the first century Church and quoted in the NT Scriptures. In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Guess you didn't read my post or the posts I linked to for the real, not Catholic, history.

I have posted it several times but you have ignored it. Here are the posts you ignored. Do not demand from me what you cannot, will not do yourself.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7839524-12/#post66270305

http://www.christianforums.com/t7839524-12/#post66276067

http://www.christianforums.com/t7824928-27/#post65824506

http://www.christianforums.com/t7824928-65/#post65995263

http://www.christianforums.com/t7836030-7/#post66155400

 

[he-man]

I have posted it several times but you have ignored it. Here are the posts you ignored. Do not demand from me what you cannot, will not do yourself.

Muratorian fragment: this 7th Century latin manuscript is often considered to be a translation of the first non-Marcion New Testament canon, and dated at between 170 (based on an internal reference to Pope Pius I and arguments put forth by Bruce Metzger) and as late as the end of the 4th century (according to the Anchor Bible Dictionary). This partial canon lists the four gospels and the Letters of Paul, as well as two books of Revelation, one of John, another of Peter (the latter of which it notes is not often read in the churches). It rejects the Epistle to the Laodiceans and Epistle to the Alexandrians both said to be forged in Paul's name to support Marcionism.

Diatessaron: c. 173, a one-volume harmony of the four Gospels, translated and compiled by Tatian the Assyrian into Syriac. In Syriac speaking churches, it effectively served as the only New Testament scripture until Paul's Letters were added during the 3rd century. Some believe that Acts was also used in Syrian churches alongside the Diatessaron [citation needed], however, Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History 4.29.5 states Tatian rejected Paul's Letters and Acts.

In the 4th century, the Doctrine of Addai lists a 17 book NT canon using the Diatessaron and Acts and 15 Pauline Epistles (including 3rd Corinthians). The Diatessaron was eventually replaced in the 5th century by the Peshitta, which contains a translation of all the books of the 27-book NT except for 2 John, 3 John, 2 Peter, Jude and Revelation and is the Bible of the Syriac Orthodox Church where some members believe it is the original New Testament, see Aramaic primacy.

Eusebius: c. 300, listed a New Testament canon in his Ecclesiastical History 3.3 and 3.25 [9]: Recognized are four Gospels, Acts, 10 traditional Letters of Paul, Pastoral Epistles, 1st Peter, 1st John; Disputed are Didache, Barnabas, Hermas, Diatessaron, Gospel of the Hebrews, Hebrews, Acts of Paul, James, 2nd Peter, 2-3 John, Jude, Revelation, Apocalypse of Peter; Rejected are Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Matthias, Acts of Andrew, Acts of John, and unnamed others.

In c. 380, the redactor of the Apostolic Constitutions attributed a canon to the Twelve Apostles themselves as the 85th of his list of such apostolic decrees:
Canon 85. Let the following books be esteemed venerable and holy by all of you, both clergy and laity. [A list of books of the Old Testament ...] And our sacred books, that is, of the New Testament, are the four Gospels, of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John; the fourteen Epistles of Paul; two Epistles of Peter; three of John; one of James; one of Jude; two Epistles of Clement; and the Constitutions dedicated to you, the bishops, by me, Clement, in eight books, which is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them; and the Acts of us, the Apostles. (From the Latin version.)

3rd Synod of Carthage: in 397, ratified the canon accepted previously at the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa in 393 and which was supposedly endorsed by Pope Damasus I, but the acts of which have been lost. The 27-book NT canon included the Gospels, four books; the Acts of the Apostles, one book; the Epistles of Paul, thirteen; of the same to the Hebrews; one Epistle; of Peter, two; of John, apostle, three; of James, one; of Jude, one; the Revelation of John.

The Septuagint (LXX) translation of the Hebrew language Bible into Koine Greek, probably in the 1st and 2nd centuries BCE, provided a text (there are variants) for the Greek-speaking world, and was used by the writers of the New Testament. In this text (actually scrolls rather than a book) the Torah and Nevi'im are established as canonical, but again, Ketuvim have not yet been definitively canonized (some editions of the Septuagint include, for instance I-IV Maccabees or the 151st Psalm, while others do not include them, also there are the Septuagint additions to Esther, Jeremiah, and Daniel and 1 Esdras).
Bible History