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CherubRam

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More miscellaneous quotes.
Gehenna

The full name of this low-lying land is the Valley of the Son of Hinnom – whoever that may have been. Knowing nothing about either son or father, we can only conjecture that Hinnom probably bequeathed his son some rather fertile farmland in this valley that surrounds old Jerusalem on the southwest. The valley’s name in Hebrew is Gei Ben-Hinnom or simply Gei-Hinnom. In light of the sacrifices to the fire god, the latter name gave rise to the word “Gehenna,” which over time became a synonym for hell.

Early Jewish sages saw Isaiah 31:9 – which says God’s “fire is in Zion” and “furnace in Jerusalem” – as a reference to this valley, which they described as the gates of hell. The valley’s other biblical name, Topheth, means inferno, adding to its image as a place of eternal torment.

On a more positive note, when the people of Judah returned from exile around 538 BC, according to Nehemiah they took up “living all the way from Beersheba to the Valley of Hinnom” (Nehemiah 11:30).

But, sadly, the bad news continued even after Old Testament times. In the New Testament, this was the place where the chief priests bought a potter’s field with Judas Iscariot’s infamous 30 pieces of silver. Not wanting to keep the money, they decided to use it to buy a burial place for foreigners. “That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day” (Matthew 27:6-8). The version of the story in Acts turns quite gory: “With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood” (Acts 1:18-19).

Rabbi named David Kimhi who wrote a commentary on Psalm 27 in the 13th Century. He remarked
“Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called ‘Gehenna.’

Edward Robinson, preeminent explorer of the Holy Land beginning in 1838. He wrote:
“In these gardens, lying partly within the mouth of Hinnom and partly in the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and irrigated by the waters of Siloam, Jerome assigns the place of Tophet; where the Jews practised the horrid rites of Baal and Moloch, and ‘burned their sons and their daughters in the fire.’ It was probably in allusion to this detested and abominable fire, that the later Jews applied the name of this valley (Gehenna), to denote the place of future punishment or the fires of hell. At least there is no evidence of any other fires having been kept up in the valley; as has sometimes been supposed” (Biblical Researches, vol. 1 [1841], 404-5).
The origin of the “garbage dump” theory appears to be Kimchi. James A. Montgomery observes this medieval commentator’s logic, but does not accept it.

“With the common sense which often characterizes Jewish commentators, Kimchi says that the place was the dump of the city, where fires were always kept burning to destroy the refuse; ‘therefore the judgment of the wicked is parabolically called Gehenna.’ But from the Biblical references the place appears to have nothing physically objectionable about it; in contrast to its contemporary condition Jeremiah prophesied that it would one day be called ‘Valley of Slaughter’” (“The Holy City and Gehenna,” JBL 27/1 [1908], 34).

Lloyd R. Bailey quotes Kimchi directly:
“The traditional explanation for this seems to go back to Rabbi David Kimhi’s commentary on Psalm 27 (around 1200 C.E.). He remarked the following concerning the valley beneath Jerusalem’s walls:
Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called ‘Gehenna.’
“Kimhi's otherwise plausible suggestion, however, finds no support in literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods. There is no evidence that the valley was, in fact, a garbage dump, and thus his explanation is insufficient” (“Gehenna: The Topography of Hell,” Biblical Archaeologist 49/3 [1986], 188-89).

G. R. Beasley-Murray made a similar observation:
“The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source. The valley was the scene of human sacrifices, burned in the worship of Moloch (2 Kings 16:3 and 21:6), which accounts for the prophecy of Jeremiah that it would be called the Valley of Slaughter under judgment of God (Jer. 7:32-33). This combination of abominable fires and divine judgment led to the association of the valley with a place of perpetual judgment (see Isa. 66:24) and later with a place of judgment by fire without any special connection to Jerusalem (see, for example, 1 Enoch 27:1ff., 54:1ff., 63:3-4, and 90:26ff)” (Jesus and the Kingdom of God, 376-77).
Jeremiah 7:31–32 (ESV) — And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind. Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere.

Isaiah had already envisioned Topheth as the fiery destiny of an enemy of God.

Isaiah 30:33 (HCSB) — Indeed! Topheth has been ready for the king for a long time now. His funeral pyre is deep and wide, with plenty of fire and wood. The breath of the Lord, like a torrent of brimstone, kindles it.
Isaiah closes his book with these words:

Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) — “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

It is not difficult to see, from these and other texts (e.g., 2 Kgs 23:10; 2 Chr 28:3, 33:6; Jer 32:35), why Yahshua and his disciples used the word Gehenna (“valley of Hinnom”) as synonymous with a place of everlasting punishment.
 
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he-man

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Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) — “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

It is not difficult to see, from these and other texts (e.g., 2 Kgs 23:10; 2 Chr 28:3, 33:6; Jer 32:35), why Yahshua and his disciples used the word Gehenna (“valley of Hinnom”) as synonymous with a place of everlasting punishment.
:thumbsup::amen: burned up means dead non-existant. vaporized into smoke!
 
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Proud Parrot

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The site needs a HELL forum just for these discussions I think.
Are we to believe Jesus burned in Hell for three days after the cross?

No, that's not what scripture tells us is it?

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
(1 Peter 3:18-19)

"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40)

Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. (Acts 2:30-32)
 
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Der Alte

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Gehenna (Greek γέεννα), Gehinnom (Rabbinical Hebrew: גהנום/גהנם) and Yiddish Gehinnam, are terms derived from a place outside ancient Jerusalem known in the Hebrew Bible as the Valley of the Son of Hinnom (Hebrew: גֵיא בֶן־הִנֹּם or גיא בן-הינום); one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City. . . .

All the rest is irrelevant! Wiki is about as reliable as the graffiti scribbled on public facility walls. Every article has multiple [edit] links, anybody can add, delete, or change anything at any time, without review or control.

The canon of the NT was finalized about 300 AD, there was no Catholic church, in Rome, with a pope in chagre until 1075 when Hildebrand the bishop of Rome unilaterally usurped authority over the church. Until that time the bishop of Rome did not have any more authority than any other bishop.
 
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Der Alte

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More miscellaneous quotes.
Gehenna
The full name of this low-lying land is the Valley of the Son of Hinnom – whoever that may have been. Knowing nothing about either son or father, we can only conjecture that Hinnom probably bequeathed his son some rather fertile farmland in this valley that surrounds old Jerusalem on the southwest. The valley’s name in Hebrew is Gei Ben-Hinnom or simply Gei-Hinnom. In light of the sacrifices to the fire god, the latter name gave rise to the word “Gehenna,” which over time became a synonym for hell.
• • •
Rabbi named David Kimhi who wrote a commentary on Psalm 27 in the 13th Century. He remarked
“Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called ‘Gehenna.’

Edward Robinson, preeminent explorer of the Holy Land beginning in 1838. He wrote:
... It was probably in allusion to this detested and abominable fire, that the later Jews applied the name of this valley (Gehenna), to denote the place of future punishment or the fires of hell. At least there is no evidence of any other fires having been kept up in the valley; as has sometimes been supposed” (Biblical Researches, vol. 1 [1841], 404-5).
The origin of the “garbage dump” theory appears to be Kimchi. James A. Montgomery observes this medieval commentator’s logic, but does not accept it.
• • •
Lloyd R. Bailey quotes Kimchi directly:
“The traditional explanation for this seems to go back to Rabbi David Kimhi’s commentary on Psalm 27 (around 1200 C.E.). He remarked the following concerning the valley beneath Jerusalem’s walls:
Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called ‘Gehenna.’
“Kimhi's otherwise plausible suggestion, however, finds no support in literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods. There is no evidence that the valley was, in fact, a garbage dump, and thus his explanation is insufficient” (“Gehenna: The Topography of Hell,” Biblical Archaeologist 49/3 [1986], 188-89).

G. R. Beasley-Murray made a similar observation:
“The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source. The valley was the scene of human sacrifices, burned in the worship of Moloch (2 Kings 16:3 and 21:6), which accounts for the prophecy of Jeremiah that it would be called the Valley of Slaughter under judgment of God (Jer. 7:32-33). This combination of abominable fires and divine judgment led to the association of the valley with a place of perpetual judgment (see Isa. 66:24) and later with a place of judgment by fire without any special connection to Jerusalem ...
• • •
Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) — “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

It is not difficult to see, from these and other texts (e.g., 2 Kgs 23:10; 2 Chr 28:3, 33:6; Jer 32:35), why Yahshua and his disciples used the word Gehenna (“valley of Hinnom”) as synonymous with a place of everlasting punishment.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.

Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992

Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1

Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location (in any case, a thorough investigation would be appreciated). Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.” (“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)

G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:

“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
.
The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism - Bible Truth Discussion Forum
 
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Der Alte

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The site needs a HELL forum just for these discussions I think.
Are we to believe Jesus burned in Hell for three days after the cross?

No, that's not what scripture tells us is it?

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
(1 Peter 3:18-19)

"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40)

Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. (Acts 2:30-32)

The Jews, in Israel before and during the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal, unending, fiery torment and they called it both Gehinnom/Gehenna and Sheol. When Jesus taught about,

•"Eternal punishment, Mt 25:46"
•"the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mk 9:43-48" and
•"cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Mt 13:42, 50
• “better for [a person who offends a little one] that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mt 18:6
• “it had been good for [the one who betrays Jesus] if he had not been born.” Mat 26:24​

These teachings supported and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence. Jesus was born, and grew to maturity, in 1st century Israel. He knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong Jesus would have corrected them. He did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell was correct. Here is historical evidence to support this.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).

But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Jewish Encyclopedia Online
====================================================================
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."

Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
 
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Timothew

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The site needs a HELL forum just for these discussions I think.
I second the motion for a Hell Forum. See you in Hell! ;)

Are we to believe Jesus burned in Hell for three days after the cross?

No, that's not what scripture tells us is it?
I know, right? :wave:
 
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Anto9us

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"Are we to believe Jesus burned in Hell for three days after the cross?"

Hardly.. He told the repentant thief "THIS DAY you will be with me in Paradise"

Jesus and that thief went to the GOOD SIDE of Hades

There is such a thing known as THE HARROWING OF HELL

(He preached to those in prison.... yeah yeah)

why is all this not known?
 
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Proud Parrot

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I second the motion for a Hell Forum. See you in Hell! ;)


I know, right? :wave:

;) There's an old saying: May you have exactly the god you deserve. And the afterlife you believe you are worthy of.

People will believe what they wish to believe. What are we really "arguing" here? With whom? And why?
 
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;) There's an old saying: May you have exactly the god you deserve. And the afterlife you believe you are worthy of.

People will believe what they wish to believe. What are we really "arguing" here? With whom? And why?

Whenever I ask that question, the answer is always along the lines of "We come here for the debate". They never say they come here to learn, or to discover the truth.
 
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CherubRam

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Why would Yahshua want to introduce the pagan belief of Hell and Hades into the body of believers?

How does a person get to Hell? God sends them there. So why would God send Yahshua to Hell for three days and nights?
 
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How does a person get to Hell? God sends them there. So why would God send Yahshua to Hell for three days and nights?

Because He became sin in our place.
 
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Timothew

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;) There's an old saying: May you have exactly the god you deserve. And the afterlife you believe you are worthy of.

People will believe what they wish to believe. What are we really "arguing" here? With whom? And why?

Exactly, but there is another saying "If you're going through hell, keep on going"!

I pretty much want the world to know that we do not worship the God of Hell. We worship the God described in the Bible, the Creator of Heaven and of Earth. The Savior of the World.
 
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CherubRam

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1.Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

2.Genesis 3:3
but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

3.Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.

4.Deuteronomy 32:39
"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

5.1 Samuel 2:6
"The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

6.Proverbs 2:18
For her house leads down to death and her paths to the death of spirits.

7.Proverbs 8:36
But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death."

8.Proverbs 11:19
The truly righteous man attains life, but he who pursues evil goes to his death.

9.Proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

10.Proverbs 23:14
Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.

11.Psalm 56:13
For you have delivered me from death and my feet from stumbling, that I may walk before God in the light of life.

12.Psalm 118:18
The LORD has chastened me severely, but he has not given me over to death.

13.Hosea 13:14
"I will ransom them from the power of the grave ; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction?

14.Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'

15.Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

16.Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

17.Matthew 16:28
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death, but they will see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

18.Mark 9:1
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death, but they will see the kingdom of God come with power."

19.Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death, but they will see the kingdom of God."

20.John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

21.Hebrews 5:7
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

22.Hebrews 6:1
Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death

23.James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

24.Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades (Grave).

25.Revelation 6:8
I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades (Grave) was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

26.Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades (grave) gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

27.Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades (grave) were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
 
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CherubRam

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Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”


Matthew 10:28
And do not fear them which can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [hell / Gehenna.


Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.


Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?

Catholic Gnosticism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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. . . Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.

Just a reminder, no the Catholic Church did not canonize scripture. The canon of the NT was determined 700-800 years before the Catholic Church existed.
 
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Der Alte

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Not according to them.

Irrelevant! Non-Catholic, i.e. real, history shows the truth. The Bible was not canonized by the Catholic church because the canon of the NT was decided about 700-800 years before the Catholic church existed.
 
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