Hell

[Joykins]

Has anyone read Lewis's _The Great Divorce_? What did you think of that portrayal of hell?

 

[TheManeki]

There's a great short story by Neil Gaiman collected in Fragile Things that (among other things) has Hell being where we have to confront our own self-deceptions and fully realize the hurts we did to others. (If you're Catholic, it sounds a lot like purgatory, perhaps.) A powerful idea.

 

[SteelDisciple]

Doesn't the bible specifically state that hell is eternal torment? (including fire and brimstone)

 

[Abbadon]

The Bible also refers to it as the second death, and Ecclesiastes talks about people in the grave basically being devoid of existence. The Biblical views of Hell are a bit complicated.

There's a great short story by Neil Gaiman collected in Fragile Things that (among other things) has Hell being where we have to confront our own self-deceptions and fully realize the hurts we did to others. (If you're Catholic, it sounds a lot like purgatory, perhaps.) A powerful idea.

What you've described of that depiction seems to have been derived from Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. There was one "flashback" issue used to explain some of the events leading up to what was going on Earth that started and ended with a former villain being shown what he did wrong.

 

[TheCheat1]

Well, it's a very complex concept. I do not believe in eternal torture, I believe that people are separated from God until they repent.

The hell described by Dante and the Greeks (Sheol) just seems so unfair.

The Bible verse supporting this is...?

I believe "hell" is the world around us, where so many people suffer on a daily basis. Hell is the extent to which all of us live lives somewhat (or entirely) estranged from God. Hell is not something God has made, ordained or done to anyone. Hell is what we do to each other, it is something we've brought on ourselves.

Yet the Bible says otherwise. Sorry, but what we as individuals believe doesn't change reality.

I tend to view God as the only truely existant thing. The rest of us are stuck in a sort of limbo. The more we exist, the more we're like God, the happier and better we are. Evil is simply perverting the good stuff God created. With evil, a person lessens themself.

Why do you believe this? Is this in the Bible anywhere?

I don't view heaven and hell as seperate places, but difference states of mind within the same non-place. When a person dies, "hell" is the realization of one's own iniquity, seeing the distance from the One thing that is actually capable of caring for something so fallen, and the guilt of knowing how much one has failed. Heaven is the joy of being forgiven.

This isn't anywhere in Scripture.

I believe in limited annihiliationism, some people just die.

What do you think happened to Hitler?

I don't believe in hell

If I don't believe in gravity, it doesn't make any difference.

I'm swiping this from here http://www.christianforums.com/t2642693-wiki-orthodox-church.html as it says it better than I could:

The Orthodox teaching is that Heaven and Hell are the same "place" , standing in front of God. The Judgment is individual perception, determined by one's relationship to God. This perception will determine whether or not one experiences it as paradise (Heaven) or agony (Hell) eternally .

Again, not in the Bible.

It's simple in my mind. The fiery place of torture rules by a man in a red suit with horns, a tail, and a pitchfork does not exist.

Of course such a place does not exist. But Hell does. Satan does not rule Hell, he'll be suffering in it.

I doubt hell exists at all. There are many good people out there who happen to be non-Christian, and I don't think a loving God would send them to a place of eternal torment.
I do believe in some sort of afterlife though. What that afterlife is, I'm not really sure.

Those people, whom you see as good, are not good at all.

In fact, everyone on Earth deserves eternal torment in Hell, and I can show anyone why if they'd like.

 

[Abbadon]

Welcome to the Liberal theology section, where we liberals talk amongst ourselves (as the fundamentalist section does), and we allow conservatives to come in and ask questions or even harass us (as the fundamentalist section probably wouldn't allow us to do).

Why do you believe this? Is this in the Bible anywhere?

My view expressed here is called monism (though I tend specifically towards dialectical monism), and it's not supported or denied any more with dualism, which is more familiar to conservatives such as yourself.

Monism and dualism are philosophical positions that aren't confirmed or denied by the Bible.

I go for monism because I don't believe that God created evil. Didn't you get the sappy little e-mail relating the "true" story where an atheist professor says "God created evil," and some student says "no, evil is just the abscence of God's intentions in creation," and then it says the student was Einstein or Pat Robertson or Deepak Chopra.

This isn't anywhere in Scripture.

Where is Hell located then, if it's a place? The spiritual realm isn't physical.

The Bible says Hell is a place of eternal suffering. I simply expounded my views on what sort of suffering. The spirit isn't a physical thing, so if there's no body to burn, what "burns?" If there is no tongue to gnash, no teeth to grind, what is gnashed and ground? If there physics is gone, what sort of dark could there be? It seems to me that that the burning is a metaphor for the burning of guilt, the gnashing and grinding are metaphors for self-inflicted pain from realizing that we deserve worse than hell, the darkness is a metaphor for the seperation from the light of God.

What do you think happened to Hitler?

He's probably suffering.

I said "SOME people just die." Read Ecclesiastes 9. It obviously isn't talking about those in Heaven (see John 3:16), and there isn't any of the usuall "hell" stuff going on for the dead mentioned there... Seems some people just die.

Again, not in the Bible.

I know this wasn't in response to me, but: Show us a verse that says Heaven and Hell are completely seperate places that somehow exist in a realm where 'space' and 'distance' are not rules but suggestions.

The Bible leaves a great deal unsaid. It talks about salvation (but not the machinery behind it), it goes into what happens without salvation (but gives very few details), and it points out that our individual philosophies and cosmologies are what saves us (so it doesn't bother telling us any more than is necessary).

 

[Rebekka]

Most importantly: I do not, and never will, believe that the way to get there is not being Christian. To say my entire family will go to Hell just because they're not Christian is wildly offensive to me, even if many Christians demand it of their faith.

Me neither. I think God looks in people's hearts, and not being a christian doesn't equal hating God IMO.

 

[jesuspickedmeup]

hell
hell [ hel ]

noun (plural hells)Definition: 1. place of punishment after death: according to many religions, the place where the souls of people who are damned suffer eternal punishment after death

2. devilish power: according to some religions, Satan or the powers of evil that live in hell

3. underworld: according to some religions, the place where the spirits of all people go after death

4. suffering: a state or place of extreme pain or misery, or something or somebody that causes extreme pain or misery

I tell you, migraine is just hell.

Finals are absolute hell.

She went through hell until she heard they were safe.

 

[Joykins]

The only consistent message the Bible has about hell is that it is a place for the wicked. One word translated means "the grave" and the other word translated is "gehenna" which was like an incinerator/garbage dump.


What is not clear in the Bible is whether ordinary flawed-human-bean-type sinfulness lands you there, or whether you have to be a particular kind of wicked--uncharitable (Matt. 25) or persecuting the saints (Rev.). It is unclear whether the eternal torment is for the souls consigned there or for the devil and his angels. It is unclear whether casting hell into the lake of fire as a second death is annihilation or eternal torment.

Place this in context with the other teachings about life and eternal life and death being the "wages of sin." Also in context of "upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." How do gates prevail, or not?

 

[Trying2BaFaithfulServant]

I'm swiping this from here http://www.christianforums.com/t2642693-wiki-orthodox-church.html as it says it better than I could:

The Orthodox teaching is that Heaven and Hell are the same "place" , standing in front of God. The Judgment is individual perception, determined by one's relationship to God. This perception will determine whether or not one experiences it as paradise (Heaven) or agony (Hell) eternally .

Wow... I'd never heard that before... that may be the scariest definition of Hell I've ever heard... So maybe it's right...

 

[Gukkor]

I think Hell is real, though whether it is a physical place or a state of being is irrelevant, in my mind. I think it is a place/state of intense suffering of some sort, but I think it is suffering with a purpose, that purpose being correction (I don't think God punishes people out of spite). I believe a person in Hell can be saved from it, but that they remain in Hell until they accept said salvation.

I am sure of little about Hell beyond that, and I tend not to think of it much, nor of Heaven, for that matter. I know what I am called by God to do in this life, and I aim to do my best to accomplish it. The rest is inconsequential to me.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

I honestly have no idea- one area I unfortunately lack much understanding.

 

[Im_A]

Can we talk about hell? What is hell? Thanks!

hell? i don't know what hell is.

the curious issue with this for me is, human descriptions of hell are written during times of turmoil in their own lives, culture...dating as far back as the Old Testament prophets, and in the time of Jesus and after. and they all differ in terminology and theological structure.

so, for me, that makes me wonder what hell really is, or heaven for that matter, salvation in its entirity.

i have a degree of knowledge of what hell is for me in this life and what heaven for me is in this life, so i personally keep that in mind more than some post-mortem world that i know nothing of and let God reveal that to me in the next life.

 

[Omnichaotic]

As I stated elsewhere, I do not believe in a system of direct reward and punishment, but rather that God, in His infinite Love and mercy allows us to create our own destinies and realities as we please.

Hell is not a literal burning lake, but rather a state of being, fully self imposed.

God's pure Love pervades all things, and our experience of this Love is dependent on our state of heart, and what we love most. If we live unselfishly, in peace and harmony with all those around us, we experience joy, whereas if we live in a primarily hellish way, and live only to serve ourselves, we make ourselves miserable.

To those who spend their entire lives in purposeful ignorance of God's love, and close their eyes to it, when they finally see it face to face, find it painful beyond description. This is what hell is. God is a consuming fire, and burns away all that is not a part of Him. In this fire, we are purified of selfishness, hatred, lust, all of the things that can not exist in His presence .

 

[UberLutheran]

I grew up with an alcoholic/addict mother who rotated pharmacies to keep her supply of drugs, and learned how to make do or do without because a good bit of the family income went to pills and booze; and I grew up with an alcoholic father who also battered; and as an adult chose partners who were either alcoholic or addicts who battered because I thought that if someone hit me, that meant they cared for me -- and after being taken to the cleaners for $31,000 by an ex who maxed out all our credit cards, added to loans which we held together, compulsively collected and filled our house with his junk and systematically threw out everything I owned of value (including my recital tapes and my high school and college diplomas) -- I can say I have been to Hell and come back to talk about the experience.

Which is also why I get really annoyed with fundies who say, "You'd better change your lifestyle or you're going to HA-YELL!" Well: I have been to "HA-YELL" and I have changed my lifestyle; and the proof that I have had a true "lifestyle change" is that my current partner is not an alcoholic or an addict and does not hit me!

 

[Gukkor]

I grew up with an alcoholic/addict mother who rotated pharmacies to keep her supply of drugs, and learned how to make do or do without because a good bit of the family income went to pills and booze; and I grew up with an alcoholic father who also battered; and as an adult chose partners who were either alcoholic or addicts who battered because I thought that if someone hit me, that meant they cared for me -- and after being taken to the cleaners for $31,000 by an ex who maxed out all our credit cards, added to loans which we held together, compulsively collected and filled our house with his junk and systematically threw out everything I owned of value (including my recital tapes and my high school and college diplomas) -- I can say I have been to Hell and come back to talk about the experience.

Which is also why I get really annoyed with fundies who say, "You'd better change your lifestyle or you're going to HA-YELL!" Well: I have been to "HA-YELL" and I have changed my lifestyle; and the proof that I have had a true "lifestyle change" is that my current partner is not an alcoholic or an addict and does not hit me!

...I'm...not normally the type to say things like this, but, um...

Yeah...

 

[Trying2BaFaithfulServant]

I grew up with an alcoholic/addict mother who rotated pharmacies to keep her supply of drugs, and learned how to make do or do without because a good bit of the family income went to pills and booze; and I grew up with an alcoholic father who also battered; and as an adult chose partners who were either alcoholic or addicts who battered because I thought that if someone hit me, that meant they cared for me -- and after being taken to the cleaners for $31,000 by an ex who maxed out all our credit cards, added to loans which we held together, compulsively collected and filled our house with his junk and systematically threw out everything I owned of value (including my recital tapes and my high school and college diplomas) -- I can say I have been to Hell and come back to talk about the experience.

Which is also why I get really annoyed with fundies who say, "You'd better change your lifestyle or you're going to HA-YELL!" Well: I have been to "HA-YELL" and I have changed my lifestyle; and the proof that I have had a true "lifestyle change" is that my current partner is not an alcoholic or an addict and does not hit me!

God bless you.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Can we talk about hell? What is hell? Thanks!

It's a town in Michigan. Seems like a nice place to visit

 

[united4Peace]

I believe Hell is what we make it...

Sometimes in the back of my mind I wonder though...
I wonder if there is a fiery pit...

But deep down Id rather believe that hell is here on earth...
Troubling times...what we go through...our struggles...
our pain...that darkness and that God is with us or at least waiting for us on the other side...that light at the end of the tunnel so to speak...never abandons us so to speak.
That's my view though.

 

[RedTulipMom]

I grew up with an alcoholic/addict mother who rotated pharmacies to keep her supply of drugs, and learned how to make do or do without because a good bit of the family income went to pills and booze; and I grew up with an alcoholic father who also battered; and as an adult chose partners who were either alcoholic or addicts who battered because I thought that if someone hit me, that meant they cared for me -- and after being taken to the cleaners for $31,000 by an ex who maxed out all our credit cards, added to loans which we held together, compulsively collected and filled our house with his junk and systematically threw out everything I owned of value (including my recital tapes and my high school and college diplomas) -- I can say I have been to Hell and come back to talk about the experience.

Which is also why I get really annoyed with fundies who say, "You'd better change your lifestyle or you're going to HA-YELL!" Well: I have been to "HA-YELL" and I have changed my lifestyle; and the proof that I have had a true "lifestyle change" is that my current partner is not an alcoholic or an addict and does not hit me!

i can relate..only i am still stuck in hell and have no control over it. i have lived in a hell of some sorts for 99% of my 38 yrs of life. If theres something worse than this in the afterlife..ill be shocked. I sure hope im living out some bad karma..cuz i have no other explanation for all the constant suffering.