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Chris†opher Paul

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1. God is everywhere.

2. Hell is eternal separation from God.

How can Hell be a place, if God is not there? 

Or if God is there, it isn't eternal seperation, it is eternal torment of sorts.

But if it is eternal torment, how can a loving Father standby while His children are tormented forever, even if they do hate Him? 

So, is Hell annihilation of the soul, or is it seperation/torment from God?

How can you suffer if you don't exist anymore?
 

Chris†opher Paul

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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

"If we abstract from the eternity of its punishment, the existence of hell can be demonstrated even by the light of mere reason. In His sanctity and justice as well as in His wisdom, God must avenge the violation of the moral order in such wise as to preserve, at least in general, some proportion between the gravity of sin and the severity of punishment. But it is evident from experience that God does not always do this on earth; therefore He will inflict punishment after death. Moreover, if all men were fully convinced that the sinner need fear no kind of punishment after death, moral and social order would be seriously menaced. This, however, Divine wisdom cannot permit. Again, if there were no retribution beyond that which takes place before our eyes here on earth, we should have to consider God extremely indifferent to good and evil, and we could in no way account for His justice and holiness.-Nor can it be said: the wicked will be punished, but not by any positive infliction: for either death will be the end of their existence, or, forfeiting the rich reward of the good, they will enjoy some lesser degree of happiness. These are arbitrary and vain subterfuges, unsupported by any sound reason; positive punishment is the natural recompense of evil. Besides, due proportion between demerit and punishment would be rendered impossible by an indiscriminate annihilation of all the wicked. And finally, if men knew that their sins would not be followed by sufferings, the mere threat of annihilation at the moment of death, and still less the prospect of a somewhat lower degree of beatitude, would not suffice to deter them from sin."


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Yes, if torments are not eternal. I think it is the eternal part which is ripping my conscience apart on this problem. :(

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"The Church professes her faith in the eternity of the pains of hell in clear terms in the Athanasian Creed (Denz., nn. 40), in authentic doctrinal decisions (Denz, nn. 211, 410, 429, 807, 835, 915), and in countless passages of her liturgy; she never prays for the ******. Hence, beyond the possibility of doubt, the Church expressly teaches the eternity of the pains of hell as a truth of faith which no one can deny or call in question without manifest heresy."

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I don't want to be a heretic, but how is eternal torment, just?  And why allows those to be born that would choose to be tormented forever, if God loves them in the first place and does not desire them to be condemned? 
 
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Chris†opher Paul

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"Many believe that reason cannot give any conclusive proof for the eternity of the pains of hell, but that it can merely show that this doctrine does not involve any contradiction. Since the Church has made no decision on this point, each one is entirely free to embrace this opinion. As is apparent, the author of this article does not hold it. We admit that God might have extended the time of trial beyond death; however, had He done so, He would have permitted man to know about it, and would have made corresponding provision for the maintenance of moral order in this life. We may further admit that it is not intrinsically impossible for God to annihilate the sinner after some definite amount of punishment; but this would be less in conformity with the nature of man's immortal soul; and, secondly, we know of no fact that might give us any right to suppose God will act in such a manner."

No fact that would suppose this action? How about infinite Love and Mercy? :(

Ok, so can I believe that God annihilates them after a specified period of time?
 
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VOW

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To Souljah:

There must be some form of time, else we would all be frozen in inaction or something.

Frozen, or even doing everything at once, at warp speed.

I'll pick door number two, please.

How ELSE can the saints hear and act on our behalf?

Just don't trouble yourself with it. You are trying to put the dimensions of THIS LIFE onto the existence of the NEXT LIFE. Your physical body can only comprehend through the senses you have now. We'll be glorified in the next world.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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Chris†opher Paul

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"Hell is a state of the greatest and most complete misfortune, as is evident from all that has been said. The ****** have no joy whatever, and it were better for them if they had not been born (Matt., xxvi, 24)."

Why were they born, if God knew them before they were born and knows the outcome of everything, and is a Loving God?
 
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isshinwhat

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It would be better for them to have never been born, but it would not be better for them to have never had the chance at love. The eternal punishment comes in, I believe, because every human being alive has felt the love of God. He calls us all to himself. For the ******, experienceing this communion with God is impossible. That is separation from God. God's love and majesty are called in the Bible a consuming fire. Perhaps this same consuming fire causes spiritual pain and regret in those who can no longer commune with Him. This is their punishment. There is no active torture going on, but they are forced to live with the reality they have chosen. Just my two cents. I'm still pondering these things myself.

God Bless,

Neal
 
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ZooMom

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Hmm. I believe in hell as a place of eternal torment. I also believe that God is Just and Merciful beyond my ability to comprehend. That being said, I belive that there are very few that God would judge deserving of eternal punishment, and for those that even God in His infinite Mercy, Love, and Compassion would condemn, is eternity long enough?

My $.02
 
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ZooMom

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No, I don't think that many people will be there at all. Like I said, God is Just and Merciful beyond our comprehension. Much better qualified than you or I to say who deserves to be d*mned for all eternity. I hope I never meet the person that God deems worthy of that punishment.

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins; save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Your mercy. Amen.
 
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s0uljah, like it is said in scripture,,,,,,"It is from dust from whence we come, and it is to dust we shall return" As soon as we die, our soul immediately leaves our physical body, and as most of us hope to join the Lord in heaven. And as far as the physical body itself, once buried, it slowly transforms into dust and fragments......So I don't feel our "Physical" body will exist anymore, no matter where we go,,to heaven or hell.
 
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