Hell

[ertsky]

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

which "hell" are we talking about sheol hades gehenna surely not tartarus

none of these words from the scriptures equates to the mythical place where god tortures unbelievers for eternity !

think about it for a minute the bible says He is not willing that any should perish and also asks who has resisted His intention.

think about it for a minute He commands us LOVE YOUR ENEMIES and yet we say He will torture His forever?

as He keeps trying to tell people it is His mercy not His torture that endures forever

but who has ears to hear?

Amen?

 

[heron]

...and He is not the one who tortures in Hell. He's got better things to do.

 

[Lpe04]

I used to be a believer in eternal torment in hell based on what I had always heard about in society until I really started reading God's Word and understanding God. Yes, those who don't believe will be cast into the Lake of Fire, but they will be burned up into ashes, they won't be tormented forever, this is known as the Second Death. This was never a belief in the Old Testament or in the early church or apostles. This was a concept that wasn't added until later centuries to "scare" people into doing good and working for God out of fear and carried into many of the Bible translations in a couple of passages, including in the King James version. This belief was derived from the Greek belief in the soul being immortal and those who did wrong being tormented forever in the underworld by the Greek god hades (this is where we get our idea about hades and hell from). The Bible has always been a matter of Eternal Life or death, not happiness or suffering. God told Adam and Eve that when they disobeyed Him that they would die (not suffer for eternity). "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Thus death and satan gained authority over man until Jesus Christ won that authority back for us and conquered over death so we could have Eternal Life back. "For the wages of sin is death, the gift from God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

God showed me one time that so many people have taken Christianity from being a free gift from God into a choice that must be made to escape eternal torment. This is not what God is, God is nothing but infinite love, mercy and compassion that would never torment anyone, especially forever.
For more info on what the Bible actually teaches on "hell", check out http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=455 or http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/HL/index.htm for some great articles on the topic.


"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [gehenna, representative of the Lake of Fire]" Matthew 10:28

"'For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,' says the LORD of hosts, 'that will leave them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings; and you shall go out and grow fat like stall-fed calves. You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,' says the LORD of Hosts" (Malachi 4:1-3).

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish (be reduced to ashes, cease to exist, etc.), but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death (not torment) unto life.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelations 21:18

God Bless

 

[repoland2]

This was touched upon in another thread, but I wanted to ask christians what they thought. Do you believe that everyone that doesn't believe in God goes to hell when they die?

I know some amazing, wonderful, good people (including my husband) that don't believe in God, and I can't believe that that they will go to hell just for not believing in God. It seems an incredibly cruel punishment.

Any thoughts?

The Lord never gives a command that everyone cannot follow. The Lord has given a LIFE to each and everyone one of us, with the free will to do with as we please.

If given a lifetime opportunity to believe in the Lord God with all the trimmings is given to a person, and they refuse to believe, then they have denied God. Turned their backs on Him.

Unfortunetly, you have a slightly biased opinion while you have a husband that doesn't believe. It's understandable you do not want him to go to hell, but the facts are in plain written text within the bible. It boils down to faith in them, or the lack thereof.

I cannot stand here and say "Your husband is doomed to Hell" because I sure don't have a clue what God has planned for the both of you. I will not take the seat of judgement. As it stands right now, your husband has a WONDERFUL opportunity to have faith in God and to believe, and he has a chance to be saved until the day He dies.

I will say this, if he passes away, and goes face to face with the Lord, and having denied Him all his life... God will look down on him and say "Through your life you didn't know me, therefore be gone, I do not know you!"

 

[OnEarth]

If the God you believe in does not punish those that do not take Christ as there savior you've created a God and that is commiting idolatry because it is not the same God in the bible. Christ did not die so every man with a good heart can still commit sins and never believe in what he did for them. There is a place for those that fall in between. I believe this scripture gives you a understanding

2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

We have to be aware that we do not edit the bible to make us feel comfort in what we do wrong. We edit ourselves to please God and make him comfortable and confident in us.

I had a vision about hell. I saw alot of people and there were a few men that had good hearts but didnt take Christ as there personal savior. They were still sentenced to hell. There was fire and screaming. Even the devil worshippers were screaming and begging God to save them. God doesnt see lee way on a good heart alone I suppose because we can always be a good person but it takes commitment in believeing.

 

[OnEarth]

To answer the question. If you dont not accept Christ when you have been given the oppurtunity. Yes you will be sentenced to the lake of fire.

Purgatory does not exist

 

[OnEarth]

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [gehenna, representative of the Lake of Fire]" Matthew 10:28

What a great scripture.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

This was touched upon in another thread, but I wanted to ask christians what they thought. Do you believe that everyone that doesn't believe in God goes to hell when they die?

Yep.

I know some amazing, wonderful, good people (including my husband) that don't believe in God, and I can't believe that that they will go to hell just for not believing in God. It seems an incredibly cruel punishment.

Believe it. Or are you suggesting that God's understanding of good is the same as yours? "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9).

And what's this about just for not believing in God? That's your husband's only sin? As though denying God despite His revelation isn't bad enough.

Thank you for your response. My husband does repent for past mistakes, but would not look at it in the same way as a christian would. He feels guilty for things he's done in the past and will openly admit blame for his own mistakes, and try to be a better person as a result of learning from his mistakes but would not attribute that to God.

Sorry, that just doesn't cut it. There is no repentance where God is not glorified. What's the standard? If it isn't Christ, it's idolatry, which is a clear sin, according to the 10 Commandments. We all want to be better people. But there's no way to do that outside of Christ. So anyone who wants to be a better person without Christ is not a good person but a sinner, an idolater. There's nothing good about that at all.

It's my fear that if I'm to accept what your all saying and I believe in Christ and repent my sins and my husband, and the rest of my family and friends don't see things that way then they will go to hell, and I will be without them. It's an incredibly hard thing to accept.

That's why it's your job to share the gospel with them, and that means more than proclaiming the gospel but living the gospel. To think that we could ever be unsatisfied with God's presence alone denigrates the Almighty and attributes no glory to Him. I'm not trying to be harsh, but the utter fullness of Providence is beyond our comprehension. This is just something we have to wrestle with, just as we wrestle with justification by faith alone and other Christian doctrine.

 

[OnEarth]

I have seen God and heard him you must know that he is real.

 

[ertsky]

this whole doctrine that God will torture unbelievers forever is a LIE !

it's unscriptural (once you realise what all the words translated "hell" really mean)

it's an insult to the character of God

we should all strive to get out of the way and let Jesus live His perfect life in us and repent of all these traditions of men, false doctrines and lies that obscure the truth and the Truth.

i believe from scripture in punishment, chastisement, missing out on Gods best, our God is a consuming fire, the terror of the Lord and many other amazing things but none of these truths should be used to support that abomination of falsity that may be termed the false doctrine that God will torture unbelievers for an eternity. the sooner it is repented of the happier i will be.

may God have mercy on all those that pervert the gospel !

sorry to go on but i HATE this lie it stumbled me for years

 

[£amb]

this whole doctrine that God will torture unbelievers forever is a LIE !

it's unscriptural (once you realise what all the words translated "hell" really mean)

Can you find scripture that supports this? Where does it say in the bible what God is going to do with non-believers? The bible is pretty clear in Revelations Chapter 20 what is going to happen to non-believers.

 

[repoland2]

Oiy, that's a rather hasty judgement call ertsky. I certainly hope you can back that up.

 

[OnEarth]

Maybe its best if we just say we have faith in Gods judgement.

 

[Lpe04]

Can you find scripture that supports this?

Yes, the entire Bible is full of it It begins with God telling Adam and Eve when they sin they shall surely die (not be tormented for ever) because the wages of sin is death (not eternal torment). Satan's lie on the other hand was "you shall surely not die", people still believe this lie today. Too many people misconceive the Lake of Fire to be a place of eternal torment, it is not that but rather where unbelievers will be cast in to burn up (be reduced to ashes, perish, face the Second Death).

Here are some scripture though that support unbelievers being destroyed in the Lake of Fire rather than being tormented for ever (let me know if you would like more the Bible is full of them, or just check out http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=455 or http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/HL/index.htm )

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [gehenna, representative of the Lake of Fire]" Matthew 10:28

"'For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,' says the LORD of hosts, 'that will leave them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings; and you shall go out and grow fat like stall-fed calves. You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,' says the LORD of Hosts" (Malachi 4:1-3).

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish (be reduced to ashes, cease to exist, etc.), but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgement); but is passed from death (not torment) unto life.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelations 21:18

"The wages of sin is death, the gift from God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord" Romans 6:23 (Unbelievers do not receive Eternal Life, thus they do not live for ever in "hell".)

God Bless

 

[ertsky]

at this point i wish to sincerely thank Lpe04

i have typed so much in previous posts in other threads let me just give this link

http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

please IF anyone thinks God is going to torture unbelievers eternally let them pray this prayer...

Lord Jesus You who are Love and Whose mercy endures forever let me watch while all the unbelieving people are tortured and let me return each million years or so that i may see if they are still squirming.

You Who commanded that the fragments of bread be gathered up so that "nothing be lost" yet will gladly torture men and women who never even heard your name while they lived on this earth, let me watch.

You Who rebuked Your disciples for wanting to call down fire on people who rejected Your message yet i believe will burn grannies forever yea Lord let the grannies burn.

Lord ? are You listening ?

pretty sick prayer isn't it ?

and yet it is not so far from the implications of this damnable heresy of eternal torment that should be repented of by all who want to honour God.

has anyone who believes God will torment unbelievers for eternity ever been tortured for even a day ?

has anyone who believes God will torment unbelievers for eternity ever even tried to watch a video of torture for an hour ?

well experience these things then i will listen to you!

what i am sinning to even suggest that you should be tortured for a day or watch a torture video for an hour.... and yet you are not missing the mark by suggesting that my Father will do far far worse!!!??

let us all repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand

 

[Lpe04]

Thanks ertsky,
I have a ton more I could have posted to further prove the point. I have dealt with this a lot, I used to be a believer in the eternal torment because this is what society had always taught me. It was something I always struggled with though knowing God is love. When I started understanding God more and studying into His Word, it is easily seen that this was nothing but a man made doctrine invented to "scare" people into doing good for the Lord.

The fact of the matter is when you research it, the doctrine of eternal torment was never in the early church and was never even considered. This is why Paul or any of the other apostles never wrote on it (you think they would write on a topic this extreme as people being tormented for all eternity) but the fact that it is never mentioned in the epistles is further proof that it was never even considered in the original churches. The doctrine wasn't introduced until later on, possibly by the Catholic church.

God Bless

 

[daverain]

I can't believe that that they will go to hell just for not believing in God.

Please consider -WHAT- the serpent had to -GAIN- if what he did -CAUSE- Adam and Eve to commit sin.

He would cause them to go to 'everlasting fire', which was 'prepared for the devil and his angels'.

The enemy wants everyone to go there.

-ALSO-

The enemy wants those who are saved from that place, to believe/teach -FALSELY- about it, so that the un-saved, will reject God, and go there, as well.


However...


-GOING TO HELL- :
-------------------


People do -NOT go to hell for

'...not believing in God.'


People go to -HELL- ,

for their -SINS-.


Please consider:

John 3:
-------

17

"For God did -NOT- send the Son into the world to -JUDGE- the world, but that the world might -BE SAVED- through Him."

----------------------------------------

In other words...

1.)

People are -ALREADY- going to hell (because of their sins).

2.)

Jesus -THEN- becomes a sacrifice, for us 'sinners' ,

and leads us to heaven, by giving us His Holy Spirit .



One either goes to hell for their sins, or -ESCAPES- hell by what Christ has done, on the cross.

----------------------------------

What is hell?
------------

The way I see it...


Imagine a place that's -SEPERATE- from - GOD - .

(just being there would be -AGONY-. )

-AND THEN-

(on top of this pain)

one gets -PUNISHED- (in an -EXACT- way) for the -EVIL-,

inside that person.

-AND-

since -PUNISHMENT- of a person...

-DOESN'T- remove evil (from -THAT- person)...

The punishment would last for as long as evil was present, in the person.

(=forever)

-----------------------------------------



Ah, BUT...

Imagine that Jesus

came here to die a horrible death,

to save us all from this.



*Unfortunately, all that -MANY- people hear as a message for salvation

(in this world -CLOUDED- with sin)...

is 'Go to Sunday building'. ; and 'Pay cash'




God help us all.







Peace in Christ.






.

 

[Lpe04]

Well, God's Word says we are born "dead", not destined for "hell", because "the wages of sin is death".


"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12


"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" Ephesians 2:1

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved" Ephesians 2:15

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" Collosians 2:13

"Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by Whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:24

God Bless

 

[OnEarth]

*Unfortunately, all that -MANY- people hear as a message for salvation

(in this world -CLOUDED- with sin)...

is 'Go to Sunday building'. ; and 'Pay cash'


God help us all.

I just posted about this. God told me that he is not for sale, he is free.

 

[Lpe04]

Please consider -WHAT- the serpent had to -GAIN- if what he did -CAUSE- Adam and Eve to commit sin.

He would cause them to go to 'everlasting fire', which was 'prepared for the devil and his angels'.

The enemy wants everyone to go there.

-ALSO-

The enemy wants those who are saved from that place, to believe/teach -FALSELY- about it, so that the un-saved, will reject God, and go there, as well.

But remeber one of satans lies was that "you shall surely not die" when you sin.

More people are turned off from Christianity because of the concept of eternal torture in "hell" than anything else. I would say that satan is benefiting from his lie of "you shall surely not die" still circulating and also giving people the false impression that God chooses to torture people (that He is wrathful and veneful rather than love, mercy, compassion, and kindness that He truly is).

It is the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance.

Romans 2:4 Amp "Or are you [so blind as to] trifle with and presume upon and despise and underestimate the wealth of His kindness and forbearance and long-suffering patience? Are you unmindful or actually ignorant [of the fact] that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repent?"

I pray that more people can come to know God as He truly is (infinite love, mercy, and compassion) rather than what society portrays Him as.

God Bless