"Hell isn't so bad" doctrine...

[Defcon]

Hey all, has anyone else noticed the complete denial of hell by other people on CF? I thought it was only a few but it seems like as soon as hell is mentioned, people come out of the wordwork to claim all sorts of things like "Hell doesn't really exist"; "Hell (or the lake of fire) is only temporary"; "Satan will eventually be saved as well"; etc. Geez, have people just completely forfeited plain teaching to suit their desires? I guess I already know the answer is "yes", but I'm curious as to what you all have found out about this way of thinking...

1) Do people who believe this also claim to look to the scripture as authority?
2) Is this whole doctrine built off of what people "feel"?

I'm a little frustrated with this stuff being trumpeted as true; so feel free to rant. Just need some encouragement here.....

 

[reformedfan]

yeah, an old heresy wearing a new dress. Making god in our own image is uber appealing when it comes to this doctrine, i guess..

 

[Beoga]

1) Do people who believe this also claim to look to the scripture as authority?
2) Is this whole doctrine built off of what people "feel"?

1. They claim to
2. Yes

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Hey all, has anyone else noticed the complete denial of hell by other people on CF? I thought it was only a few but it seems like as soon as hell is mentioned, people come out of the wordwork to claim all sorts of things like "Hell doesn't really exist"; "Hell (or the lake of fire) is only temporary"; "Satan will eventually be saved as well"; etc. Geez, have people just completely forfeited plain teaching to suit their desires? I guess I already know the answer is "yes", but I'm curious as to what you all have found out about this way of thinking...

1) Do people who believe this also claim to look to the scripture as authority?
2) Is this whole doctrine built off of what people "feel"?

I'm a little frustrated with this stuff being trumpeted as true; so feel free to rant. Just need some encouragement here.....

It is number 2. They don't have Scripture and they are going against the historic teaching of the Church.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[erin74]

I know someone who had a fairly thorough argument that hell wasn't eternal. That it was destruction rather than permanent. So the person ceases to exist basically. I couldn't really keep up with his reasoning - he's a pretty bright guy.

I think basically it is the 'niceness' in him that brought about the argument, rather than not wanting to take the bible seriously. He certainly was using the bible to explain where he came from.

 

[JJB]

Hey all, has anyone else noticed the complete denial of hell by other people on CF? I thought it was only a few but it seems like as soon as hell is mentioned, people come out of the wordwork to claim all sorts of things like "Hell doesn't really exist"; "Hell (or the lake of fire) is only temporary"; "Satan will eventually be saved as well"; etc. Geez, have people just completely forfeited plain teaching to suit their desires? I guess I already know the answer is "yes", but I'm curious as to what you all have found out about this way of thinking...

1) Do people who believe this also claim to look to the scripture as authority?
2) Is this whole doctrine built off of what people "feel"?

I'm a little frustrated with this stuff being trumpeted as true; so feel free to rant. Just need some encouragement here.....

Kinda shocking isn't it? That's how I felt when I saw it so prevalent here. Makes one wonder what is being taught, if anything, in today's churches.

The answer to both 1 an 2 is "yes". Altho, I contend that their espousing of no hell belies the true answer to question 1.

 

[Imblessed]

I've heard some VERY convincing arguments over hell--not that it doesn't exist, because that is completely against scripture--but that it is not eternal. They use lots of biblical passages and yes, it can be convincing.....but as Erin74 said, it's mostly "nice" people who just don't like the idea of hell trying to convince themselves it surely cannot last forever.

It's a difficult thing for me, because I'm one of those people who just doens't like the idea of hell being eternal, but you know what? I don't particularly care for the Doctrines of Grace either, although I love it with all my heart, because it's the TRUTH. Does that make sense?

I looked into the idea of hell not being eternal, and while it all sounded good, that was what caused me to step back and decide not to pursue it. Because it "sounded good"---rather like a feel-good, lets not offend anyone, let's make the gospel easy to swallow kind of "good" and that's NOT good!

I'm gradually learning that my sensitivities have nothing to do with the TRUTH of the bible. It's difficult sometimes, and I rail against God sometimes about it, but the truth is truth and there really is no way around it....

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Kinda shocking isn't it? That's how I felt when I saw it so prevalent here. Makes one wonder what is being taught, if anything, in today's churches.

Taught? That's such a closed-minded concept. We think that everyone should explore their own spiritual journey. And who are we to dictate which path they should take? Blah blah blah, something about tolerance, and hell is unfair.

It's nothing new.

 

[Foundthelight]

How about those who teach that there is no eternal torment? You know, the ones who say that hell is just eternal separation from God.


The unregenerate are already separated from God and don't care. How can this be a punishment in the afterlife? Jesus said very clearly that there is physical torment.

Luk 16:19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.

Luk 16:20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,

Luk 16:21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.

Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'

 

[Defcon]

Anybody ever get the "Ages of Ages" vs. "Forever and ever" argument? The discussion I had with this person was not on CF but I read multiple documents concerning this. I think he called hell a "corrective" thing that would eventually lead all people to heaven. It's funny how those that believe that 'Christ's atonement was universal but must be accepted' don't realize that the natural progression from that is everyone will be saved. Apparently, some of the resistance concerning 'eternal hell' comes from the universal atonement camp whether or not they want to admit it.

 

[JJB]

Anybody ever get the "Ages of Ages" vs. "Forever and ever" argument? The discussion I had with this person was not on CF but I read multiple documents concerning this. I think he called hell a "corrective" thing that would eventually lead all people to heaven. It's funny how those that believe that 'Christ's atonement was universal but must be accepted' don't realize that the natural progression from that is everyone will be saved. Apparently, some of the resistance concerning 'eternal hell' comes from the universal atonement camp whether or not they want to admit it.

I actually had someone who is a member of a Presby church tell me, it's like they come out with all the bad stuff (sin?) removed -- which somehow turns them more childlike, or less mature. So I guess that means we'll be having to change diapers in the nursery for the likes of Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Darwin, etc., etc.


Ppl start talking about definition of "ages" and I realize a discussion of universal salvation is to be forthcoming.

 

[Foundthelight]

Anybody ever get the "Ages of Ages" vs. "Forever and ever" argument? The discussion I had with this person was not on CF but I read multiple documents concerning this. I think he called hell a "corrective" thing that would eventually lead all people to heaven. It's funny how those that believe that 'Christ's atonement was universal but must be accepted' don't realize that the natural progression from that is everyone will be saved. Apparently, some of the resistance concerning 'eternal hell' comes from the universal atonement camp whether or not they want to admit it.

This sounds like a corruption of the purgatory concept. You are not good enough to get into heaven so you have to languish till you get enough points.

 

[~Heavens_Bride~]

Well..if 'forever and ever' or 'ages of Ages' is a temp. meaning. Then God must be temporary also...as God is said to be forever and ever also...using the same greek 'anios'

 

[erin74]

universal atonement camp - I wonder what kind of sports they play there????

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

universal atonement camp - I wonder what kind of sports they play there????

That's a trick question. Sports presuppose a concept of "winning" and "losing" is unfair and causes competition, which is unhealthy and probably leads to violence. Instead, let's play a game where everybody wins! I like to call it "Bible Tennis". We toss prooftexts back and forth with the limited atonement crowd, and then decide that theology is useless because nobody can really know if any of this is true or not (and besides, who really wants to study this stuff?). What is truth? Here, have a Krispy Kreme.

 

[Imblessed]

That's a trick question. Sports presuppose a concept of "winning" and "losing" is unfair and causes competition, which is unhealthy and probably leads to violence. Instead, let's play a game where everybody wins! I like to call it "Bible Tennis". We toss prooftexts back and forth with the limited atonement crowd, and then decide that theology is useless because nobody can really know if any of this is true or not (and besides, who really wants to study this stuff?). What is truth? Here, have a Krispy Kreme.

ROFL!!!!

oh, that's good, that's really good!!

 

[edie19]

Had a conversation with an acquaintance not too long ago about who goes to heaven. Her rationale for believing she would go to heaven is a pretty common one;
1. I believe in God
2. I'm a good person

My response - maybe not tactful, but still
'Satan knows God exists and has, in fact, seen Him. He was an angel! Do you think he'll be in heaven?'

I haven't done a concordance search - but my pastor recently made the comment that there are many more Scriptural references to hell than to heaven. I'm guessing that's for a reason.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Had a conversation with an acquaintance not too long ago about who goes to heaven. Her rationale for believing she would go to heaven is a pretty common one;
1. I believe in God
2. I'm a good person

My response - maybe not tactful, but still
'Satan knows God exists and has, in fact, seen Him. He was an angel! Do you think he'll be in heaven?'

I haven't done a concordance search - but my pastor recently made the comment that there are many more Scriptural references to hell than to heaven. I'm guessing that's for a reason.

The issue is with the second sentence from your acquaintance. "I'm a good person" What defines a good person? Or, even so, for the first response, who is God? Clearly, anybody can believe in a higher power (buddhists, hindus, etc) though they don't know who the real true God is, who sent His son to die for our sins, and rose again so that we may have life! There is only one God. And proof of this, i go to scripture. 1 Tim 2:5-6

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

(not actually for all men, when you look at context, but that's another discussion, it actually means men "all over".)

And, being a "good" person never got anybody into heaven. But it is by faith that we get into heaven, Hebrews 11:7

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

Now, I know that you yourself aren't the one who is saying these replies, since you originally asked the questions, and she replied. I'm just suggesting a better response, ya know, then the satan one, becuase, well... satan wasn't good I don't think that response was relevant to your acquaintance's response.

Randy

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Universalism is the firstborn of the semi-pelagain heresy of universal atonement, which is welcomed and supported by an American culture conditioned by the "feel goodism" of postmodernism.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Hey all, has anyone else noticed the complete denial of hell by other people on CF? I thought it was only a few but it seems like as soon as hell is mentioned, people come out of the wordwork to claim all sorts of things like "Hell doesn't really exist"; "Hell (or the lake of fire) is only temporary"; "Satan will eventually be saved as well"; etc. Geez, have people just completely forfeited plain teaching to suit their desires? I guess I already know the answer is "yes", but I'm curious as to what you all have found out about this way of thinking...

1) Do people who believe this also claim to look to the scripture as authority?
2) Is this whole doctrine built off of what people "feel"?

I'm a little frustrated with this stuff being trumpeted as true; so feel free to rant. Just need some encouragement here.....

The truth is that they will forever be separated from God who, in their time on earth, restrained the wickedness of their nature by His common grace. See Romans 1:24,26 and 28, and Psalm 81:11,12. Once they are gone and without Christ, He will no longer in kindness restrain the evil within them, and they will be faced with the reality that the only reason they were able to conduct themselves as respectable people on earth, was because God was restraining them. Once they are without His restraint, they will quickly find out that in themselves they were no better than Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy, or any other monster. With God's common grace no longer restraining them, they will be faced with the reality that they are as wicked and evil as another and any other is as wicked as they are. They will live in a cauldron of terror and hatred for eternity, and that without any relief. Either they learn to hate evil in this life and flee to Christ from sin, or else they will be bound by it forever. If they don't realize in this life that the "way of the transgressor is hard", they will have eternity to think it over.